hair loss from 4AD

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    hair loss from 4AD


    Has anyone experienced any loss of hair attributable to 4-AD?

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    yes I have noticed an increase, I picked up some nizoral shampoo, hope it helps
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    Anything that converts to DHT to some level can cause increased hairloss to those that are predisposed. 4AD can do this.
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    Originally posted by goes4ever
    yes I have noticed an increase, I picked up some nizoral shampoo, hope it helps
    What were the dosages and durations of the cycles where you noticed hair loss if you don't mind me asking?

    Shouldn't you get some spiro too?
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Anything that converts to DHT to some level can cause increased hairloss to those that are predisposed. 4AD can do this.

    Well, the reason that I ask is that I am going to run a cycle with Nordiol and 4-AD for my very first PH use. I have quite a large forehead so I want to be careful about the amount of 4-AD that I use.

    I read this:

    "This may be hard to believe for most of you but 4-androstenediol IS a steroid (forget this prohormone bullcrap), and potent if I may add. The problem is getting it into the blood stream intact. I assure you that injecting 100mg everyday in a suspension would surprise all of you doubters out there. Also on the plus side is that is does not aromatize to estradiol or turn into DHT."

    I would like to design a stack similar to Big Cat's stack number 2 but Big Cat's stack #2 was for orals and I am using transdermals. My concerns when designing the stack are hair loss and long term gains. His stack went like this:

    Week 1-2 take 750 mg of 4-diol and 250 mg of Nor-diol
    Week 3-5 take 500 mg of 4-diol and 500 mg of Nor-diol
    Week 6-7 take 250 mg of 4-diol and 750 mg of Nor-diol


    I need to change it in the following ways

    1) make it only 4-5 weeks
    2) change the dosages to reflect the fact that the PH's are administered transdermally, not orally
    3) change the dosages in a way that is safer for my hair

    I will be using spiro during the cycle.

    I was thinking about something like this:

    Week 1-2: 450 Nor / 450 4AD
    Week 3-4: 600 Nor / 300 4 AD

    Any suggestions from anyone are appreciated!
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    Originally posted by jediclampet


    What were the dosages and durations of the cycles where you noticed hair loss if you don't mind me asking?

    Shouldn't you get some spiro too?
    well I ran 4AD cyp at 1g a week for 8 weeks
    then I did 1g a day of oral 4AD, i capped myself from 1fast for 4 weeks
    then I did and just finished yesterday 2 bottles of T-1 final at 3 squirts 2x a day, lasted about 23-24 days. I am completely off now, doing my PCT
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    I forgot to mention, I overlapped the 4AD cyp with the oral 4AD for the last two weeks of using the cyp, so the entire cycle was 12 weeks approx, give or take a few days
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    overall, what were your impressions of running the 4ad cyp at a gram?
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    I think it was a waste, i got better results from the oral and transdermal
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    well thats a disappointment...
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    Originally posted by goes4ever


    well I ran 4AD cyp at 1g a week for 8 weeks
    then I did 1g a day of oral 4AD, i capped myself from 1fast for 4 weeks
    then I did and just finished yesterday 2 bottles of T-1 final at 3 squirts 2x a day, lasted about 23-24 days. I am completely off now, doing my PCT
    Wow, I am not gonna try anything that hardcore for my first cycle!

    Maybe the following all transdermal:

    Week 1: Nor 300 mg / 600 mg 4AD
    2-3: 450 Nor / 450 4AD
    Week 4-5: 600 Nor / 300 4 AD

    Can someone please critique this for me for a first PH cycle for someone with a big receding hairline? I will be using 5% spiro shampoo 2 times daily too.
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    with those kinda 4ad dosages, i dont think hairloss will be a prob...
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    Think I could safely bump up the 4AD? I know there is really no way to tell without just trying it but I would value your advice greatly.

    If you were me, what kind of a cycle might you use with Nor and 4AD transdermals (homebrew) for a 32 year old first time PH user with a big forehead?
  14. Dio
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    Flip the doses and use more nordiol. It'll cost more, but you'll greatly decrease any chances of losing your hair. Try nordiol/4AD at 3-1 or 4-1 ratio. You'll get enough test to avoid loss of libido and maybe even a little CNS stimulation.
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    Damnit Man, Im too young for hair loss (25). I should be starting my t1 pro and t4 transdermals on monday and you guys definelty got me thinking about going really bald. My current haircuts consist of an electric razor and a #1 gaurd for the top and bald on the sides(Faded). I dont have enough hair to hide any spots. Ooh well you win some you lose some.
    besides I think bald is starting to be the new trend. Or steroids.
    db
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    Originally posted by Dio
    Flip the doses and use more nordiol. It'll cost more, but you'll greatly decrease any chances of losing your hair. Try nordiol/4AD at 3-1 or 4-1 ratio. You'll get enough test to avoid loss of libido and maybe even a little CNS stimulation.
    How much Nor would you recommend?
  17. Dio
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    Not sure. I don't use transdermal PHs -- so someone else is going to have to give you the doses. Just use one of those two ratios with whatever you decide.
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    OK. Thanks!
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    Use nizoral shampoo and spiro during your cycle and probably for the next few weeks after. Dio has a few great threads here and bb.com. Spiro can really stink under a cap so I use it at night but there is a lotion available which doesn't smell bad.
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    And since you are using nordiol it shouldn't be too bad but buy some nizoral shampoo at least.
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    Yep, I have oredered both spiro (lotion and shampoo) as well as nizoral shampoo.

    Dio has provided me with tons of hair saving info. I have searched bb.com and read lots of good advice from him!

    Thanks!
  22. sicosico
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    Yep, I have oredered both spiro (lotion and shampoo) as well as nizoral shampoo.

    Dio has provided me with tons of hair saving info. I have searched bb.com and read lots of good advice from him!

    Thanks!
    you should order some Propecia which is the best anti dht that stops boldness
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    Yep, but won't propecia negate many of the benefits that I will get from the PH cycle - plus it's expensive with numerous potential side effects ?
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    retin-a


    Retin-a micro is a treament for acne that works real well for me. When i apply it to my eyebrows, they actually thicken. Retin-a blocks androgen and oils that make you break out or that halt hair growth. Whenever i use a PH, i apply a little to my hairline before bed, no DHT gets near my follicules! Works good.
  25. Dio
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    propecia will not effect gains.

    Retin-a is definitely helpful when dealing with hair loss -- it's especially synergistic with minoxidil. However, it's benefits have nothing to do with blocking DHT.
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    actually, retin-a's mechanism of action consists of a molecule 'trans retinoic acid' that blocks androgens (like DHT). there is extensive literature on this.
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    So would using spiro AND retin-a while on a PH / AS cycle be more beneficial than spiro alone?
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    ....jonesy.. youre spot on...retin a`s functions are many and all beneficial to hairloss.They include....cell turnover,topical application enhancement(which is what dr lee mainly touts it as),SOD activity,anti-androgen ability and get this...the ability to reduce androgen receptors over a prolonged period of use. cheers mark j
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    I am currently using a perscription based dandruff shampoo called SEBCURt. On the front it says "Medicated shampoo for the control of itching, redness, and scaling associtated with stubborn seborrhea of psoriasis of the scalp", and it contains SALICYLIC ACID 4% w/w and COAL TAR TOPICAL SOLUTION 10% w/w.

    Would this be fine on it's own to protect against hair loss using say 4-AD, 1-AD, etc.?
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    I am no expert but I am pretty sure you'd at least want to throw in some spiro shampoo too.
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    So spiro you have to buy from the states you can't get it legally in canada or is it only possible to get it through perscription?
    Last edited by spike326; 07-13-2003 at 04:56 PM.
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    ....spike ...the medicated shampoo will do nothing on its own to stop androgenic hair loss.the best cheap options available are propecia and spiro...propecia stops conversion to dht...and spiro will help stop whatever escapes locally in the follicules.you could also add nizoral as it has a mild anti-androgenic effect in itself.there are many places to buy cheap spiro tabs..its easy to make yourself...you could even add finasteride(propecia) to a spiro topical cheers mark j
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    Where can I purchase Retin-A and Nizoral shampoo?
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