Steroids+ DNA Damage

Dr. Lats

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Hey all,

Genetics are passed on through germ cells in the human body, a.k.a. sperm and egg. Any mutations in our DNA outside of the germ cells has no bearing on passing on the mutated/damaged genes to our offspring. Yet, a lot of the harsh supplements/steroids out there today effect the testes...sperm production. Have any of you come across any articles dealing with steroid use/ph use/designer steroid's effect on the human germ cells? It seems that if anything is going to **** up your actual genes, it would be all the crazy compounds we have out here in this day and age.

These compounds are all so new and have not been tested over time. Even if you yourself are fine because of your steroid/ph use, how do you know that it is not causing DNA damage or some sort of mutation in your genes that will be passed on to your offspring?
 
bioman

bioman

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Haven't seen anything on that topic yet. Given the high turnover rate for sperm I don't think it would be too much of problem. Eggs might be a different story though.

It's being suggested by some that the rise in autism rates might be related to more and more fathers being older at the time of conception. Aparently, age effects sperm structure and function as much as it does eggs.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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Well, when you consider that 1500 years ago the average lifespan was 36, and now people are having their 1st kid at 36 - that makes total sense.

Im 31 now, and not planning on starting a family for another 4 years or so...the age bit has me worried but most research shows its after age 45 (for men) when you really have to start worrying. Fertility issues can rear their head for women as early as the mid 30's.

BV
 

Dr. Lats

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So age can do something to the "quality of your offspring." How about all these different supplements out now a days. Its a little concerning to think about it, to tell you the truth. Think of all the pesticides out there that cause birth defects. Things like DDT and Agent Orange. Depleted Uranium. And probably thousands more...in 70 years some of the top supplement sellers today may be known to have wrecked havoc upon those who partook of their usage. Is there some way to predict or test these things now, without having to pass the test of time/generations??
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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No, there isnt. And you bring up a very valid point. Many people will gobble up the latest compound without giving any thought to long term side effects. Kind of frightening, if you ask me.

BV
 
bioman

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I tend to take a slightly more relaxed view. Caution is certainly warranted but the bottom line is we can't know everything about every supplement and we probably never will.

As I like to point out to the overly cautious..aspirin has been around a good 150 years. We're STILL learning about all the things it can do, both good and bad. What we do know is that there are not heaps of bodies laying around because of aspirin use.

In O-chem and pharmacology, one can get a reasonable idea of what a chemical will do by looking at it's close cousins. Before anyone freaks out over that statement, I'm fully aware that this isn't always the case, but on the whole it provides a decent reference point in regards to toxity, teratogenicity and other issues.

With AAS use, most if not all these "new designer compounds" are not new. We, as consumers and athletes just haven't been exposed to them as much. When test became illegal, you started seeing more diverse test derivatives. When 4AD went bye bye, you saw a wave of methyls based on a few basic test-like molecules. Now we're seeing things like Epistane dredged up from research done in Japan on gynocomastia.

Nothing too novel, just a new direction for applications and marketing.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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With anabolic steroids use, most if not all these "new designer compounds" are not new. We, as consumers and athletes just haven't been exposed to them as much. When test became illegal, you started seeing more diverse test derivatives. When 4AD went bye bye, you saw a wave of methyls based on a few basic test-like molecules. Now we're seeing things like Epistane dredged up from research done in Japan on gynocomastia.
That's a valid point too...and you're right many compounds coming to the market are derivatives of known substances in one way or another. I suppose beta testing and sites like this one that serve as a database for individual experiences can help someone make an educated, informed decision.

I certainly am glad that we at least have the right to decide for ourselves, anyway. At least for some things.

Bv
 

Dr. Lats

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Good responses. Hopefully, there won't be any problems in the future, since these designers steroids are cousins of test and testosterone is natural/safe. It is ridiculous that the government banned test. Now all these people across the nation are taking these supps...and are the guinea pigs...
Obviously, if testosterone and a few other "staples" were legal, we wouldn't have to worry about this, as "overdosing" on testosterone doesn't have near as much chance of having long term (generations down the road) effects, compared to the designer cousins.

Eventually, the FDA is going to ban all the stuff that is out on the market now. The supplement companies will keep evolving and bringing out products that give their users immediate results and get through governmental loopholes, but haven't withstood the test of time. The cycle will keep repeating itself. Maybe this would be a good point to make to the government that testosterone should be legal again...as we know pretty much what it is going to do. All these new supps have to be so much worse for an individual in the short run anyway, compared to test, in regards to liver, gallbladder, kidney, heart problems, etc...
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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Eventually, the FDA is going to ban all the stuff that is out on the market now. The supplement companies will keep evolving and bringing out products that give their users immediate results and get through governmental loopholes, but haven't withstood the test of time. The cycle will keep repeating itself. Maybe this would be a good point to make to the government that testosterone should be legal again...as we know pretty much what it is going to do. All these new supps have to be so much worse for an individual in the short run anyway, compared to test, in regards to liver, gallbladder, kidney, heart problems, etc...
Well, just like any other illicit chemical that should be made legal, you not only have the government to get through but decades of propaganda and bs infused in the public consciousness by our darling sensationalist media. Just today a friend at work was talking about the Chris Benoit incident, and he said: "Did you hear they found testosterone in his house?" As if test were the very blood of Satan.

He's a smart guy too - but the demonization of steroids is so fervid that nearly everyone is swept away up in the media ****storm. Unfortunately, people who can think for themselves are a minority.

BV
 

AM07

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We're a nation of sheep. The majority of Americans don't use common sense with anything and believe that the government will help them in whatever situation they are in. As a result, government becomes very big, as it is now.

For this reason alone, we will see the downfall of the United States within the next half-millenium.
 

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