This is the first cycle I have done in a couple of years. After doing alot of reading. I was hoping this compound would shrink some mild gyno that I already have. I have been taking 30mg a day in three doses. one morning one preworkout and one before bed. On day eight of my cycle my left nipple started feeling a little bit sensitive but I just thought that it was my imagination. On day ten I decided to take 4rpm with my preworkout dose. I had a awsome workout and as of day 10 I was up 8 pounds and still at 9.5% body fat. when I woke up on day 11 both my nipples were hurting and definently more puffy. I was out of town and didn't have any nolva on me so I started nolva at 40mg the next day when I got home. That was day 12. Now it is day 14 and I have been taking 40mg of nolva a day and cut my dosage of Havoc back to 20mg a day. My nipples are still a little sensitive and a little puffy but not quite as bad. My quetion is should I abandon the cycle and start pct or should I give the nolva and lower dose of Havoc a few more days to see what happens.

that sucks, i've heard about this happening before on havoc but never this early in the cycle, it was at the end, possible estrogen rebound. Didn't know Havoc would aggravate gyno by day 10 when it should be helping, if i were you i'd probably drop it.

Have you had a lot of previous problems with gyno? I dont want to assume the mild gyno you have is pubescent, but maybe?

havoc did the opposite for me within two weeks the lump was gone.

I wasn't expecting this reaction at all. From everything that I know it should not only be void of any estrogen sides, while on that is, but it should have positive effects in combating those sides.

when i took epi it reduced my gyno a little bit on right nipple when i started PCT i got bad gyno on my left nipple and it still here, no more gyno on right nipple tho

Originally Posted by MystikalSoul

when i took epi it reduced my gyno a little bit on right nipple when i started post cycle therapy i got bad gyno on my left nipple and it still here, no more gyno on right nipple tho

That sucks, and is very weird. I had some small gyno on my right nip didnt change at all before or after.

havoc bloated me up like a hot air balloon...like ive said in other threads, well be seeing more of these "weird side effect" from havoc threads popping up. the stuff isnt what it appears to be on paper, its much stronger than i would have ever been led to believe just by reading up on it.

It might not be directly attributable to the havoc. The chemical itself should cause the opposite. However, when you tinker with your body chemistry weird reactions can happen. A notable number of people had prolactin issues with pheraplex and that was totally unpredicted. If the nolva is taking care of things then I'd stick it out to for a couple more days but I'd also throw in some B6, Vitex and ester-C in case this is an anomalous prolactin issue triggered by the change in hormone balance in your body.

I can see how there may be some rebound in estrogen after discontinuing its use. But since you did pct you really can't put blame on the Epi. What did your pct consist of?

Originally Posted by MystikalSoul

when i took epi it reduced my gyno a little bit on right nipple when i started post cycle therapy i got bad gyno on my left nipple and it still here, no more gyno on right nipple tho

Originally Posted by jomi822

havoc bloated me up like a hot air balloon...like ive said in other threads, well be seeing more of these "weird side effect" from havoc threads popping up. the stuff isnt what it appears to be on paper, its much stronger than i would have ever been led to believe just by reading up on it.

Ya I read a couple of your posts when I was researching Havoc but everybody else seamed to be having good luck with it.

Originally Posted by yeahright

It might not be directly attributable to the havoc. The chemical itself should cause the opposite. However, when you tinker with your body chemistry weird reactions can happen. A notable number of people had prolactin issues with pheraplex and that was totally unpredicted. If the nolva is taking care of things then I'd stick it out to for a couple more days but I'd also throw in some B6, Vitex and ester-C in case this is an anomalous prolactin issue triggered by the change in hormone balance in your body.

I didn't mention I started taking b6 when I started the nolva. I will try some vitex and ester-c also though just to be on the safe side thanks for the advice. I am happy to report that as of this morning nipple sensitivity is almost zero and the puffyness in my left nipple appears to be about back to normal so I think that I will try sticking out the cycle for now.

Originally Posted by Travis

Have you had a lot of previous problems with gyno? I dont want to assume the mild gyno you have is pubescent, but maybe?

Yes I have that is the reason that I have not done a cycle in a couple of years. And the last couple that I tried had to be terminated pretty early in because of the gyno issues. I had kind of given up on trying any hormonal products until I read all the stuff about havoc and epi.

40mg nolva and 120mg clomid for first 2 weeks then i lowered doses and so on

Originally Posted by ryansm

I can see how there may be some rebound in estrogen after discontinuing its use. But since you did post cycle therapy you really can't put blame on the Epi. What did your post cycle therapy consist of?

Originally Posted by ryansm

it should not only be void of any estrogen sides, while on that is, but it should have positive effects in combating those sides.

Prolactin/progesterone can cause gyno too!

Originally Posted by smc252

Prolactin/progesterone can cause gyno too!

Yes, but elevated prolactin levels are mostly due to elevated estrogen levels. Or if the substance is a progestin(synthetic, progesterone-like hormone) wich I don't think it is.

But I could be wrong here guys...

Originally Posted by jomi822

havoc bloated me up like a hot air balloon...like ive said in other threads, well be seeing more of these "weird side effect" from havoc threads popping up. the stuff isnt what it appears to be on paper, its much stronger than i would have ever been led to believe just by reading up on it.

You may very well be correct. Finally got my bloodwork back, it cameback like **** after 3 wk/4dy, Im still shocked, havent even posted about it yet.

i dont want to make too many suggestions but im not at all surprised about your bloodwork...many of the first tests seemed to be handpicked.

also, half of this stuff is mental in terms of sides. if the product is toted and heavily reviewed as a mild product...more people will tend to just accept it as such. its just not the case

I got bloodwork (posted btw) about a month after pct. HDL was a little low but everything else seemed okay. I am more than likely going to run it again and will get bloodwork at least once maybe twice....and I have no reason to promote this supp so you can count on honesty.

Hey guys. Just thought that I would give you guys an update. The next day when I woke up (day 15) my nipples were pretty sore again. So I dropped the Havic and started my pct. Neadless to say I was pretty disapointed. Because my gains those first 10 days were awsome. Also when I squezed my left nip really hard a little bit of fluid came out. So I'm thinking prolactin/progestin was my culprit. Nolva and b6 didn't seem to be keeping it under control.

That sucks, some blood work might shed some light on the problem.

Jeez.. I'm glad I read this thread, I'll be keeping my dose on the moderate side. Thanks lads.