Some bloodwork...

[Travis]

Sorry, this is so far out of cycle but better late than never. I ran havoc starting April 8th for 4 weeks then started PCT for a month. So I have been done with pct since June 8th. Since then I have been cutting using albuterol, sesathin, and basics. I did not get test levels tested unfortunately. But anyways here it is:

Lipid Panel

HDL 28 (range 35-60)
CHOLESTEROL 109 (0-200)
TRIGLYCERIDES 53 (0-150)
LDL 70 (0-130)

TSH 2.30 (.35-5.5)

SODIUM 140 (136-145)
POTASSIUM 4.3 (3.5-5.1)
CHLORIDE 104 (98-107)
CO2 31 (21-32)
GLUCOSE 71 (70-110)
BUN 24 (7-25)
CREATININE 1.11 (.6-1.3)
CALCIUM 9.2 (8.5 - 10.1)
TOTAL PROTEIN 7.2 (6.4-8.2)
ALBUMIN 4.2 (3.4-5.0)
ALK. PHOS 64 (50-136)
TOTAL BILL .5 (0-1)
SGOT(AST) 20 (15-37)
SGPT(ALT) 46 (30-65)

WBC 6.9 (4-10)
RBC 4.77 (4.4-5.7)
HGB 15.2 (13.5 - 17)
HCT 45.4 (36-53.5)
MCV 95 (82-94)
MCH 31.8 (28-32)
MCHC 33.4 (32-36)
PLATELETS 186 (150-450)

So anyone have comments on this? I have limited experience reading bloodwork (2nd time) so I dont think there is anything too huge to worry about. Slightly concerned about the HDL level considering its a month outside pct. Makes me wonder how bad it was during cycle.

MCv was also out of range. Some numbers were close to being out of range. The HDL to total Chol ratio is not very good from my understanding. I believe something under 3.5 is best correct? Anyways thanks in advance for any comments.

 

[pistonpump]

Bumping

give this guy some reps. First time ive seen bloodwork on Havoc, Epi. Unless, someone has some links to others....

 

[Travis]

Bumping

give this guy some reps. First time ive seen bloodwork on Havoc, Epi. Unless, someone has some links to others....

Thanks bro. And FYI I'll be using epidrol (clone) soon and plan to get bloodwork closer to the end of PCT. I'll post it of course.

 

[msc111]

got a question on this blood test stuff. when taking orals, if ur blood work does change, or if it causes any damage to the liver, is it permanent? or will it change/heal in time??

 

[Travis]

got a question on this blood test stuff. when taking orals, if ur blood work does change, or if it causes any damage to the liver, is it permanent? or will it change/heal in time??

The liver can actually heal itself over time depending on the damage/stress. Other guys on here can pry answer this question better than I can, so I'll let them have at it.

Either way its always nice to know where you lipid profile stands.

 

[msc111]

thanx for the reply. just asking cuz im doing research before i run my first cycle, which will be TORQURE. a clone of superdrol, and a good one i hear.

 

[jonny21]

got a question on this blood test stuff. when taking orals, if ur blood work does change, or if it causes any damage to the liver, is it permanent? or will it change/heal in time??

This is the warning that comes with Oxandrolone:

Peliosis hepatis, a condition in which liver and sometimes splenic tissue is replaced with blood-filled cysts, has been reported in patients receiving androgenic anabolic steroid therapy. These cysts are sometimes present with minimal hepatic dysfunction, but at other times they have been associated with liver failure. They are often not recognized until life-threatening liver failure or intra-abdominal hemorrhage develops. Withdrawal of drug usually results in complete diappearance of lesions. Liver cell tumors are also reported. Most often these are benign and androgen-dependent, but fatal malignant tumors have been reported. Withdrawal of drug often results in regression or cessation of progression of the tumor. However, hepatic tumors associated with androgens or anabolic steroids are much more vascular than other hepatic tumors and may be silent until life-threatening intra-abdominal hemorrhage develops. Blood lipid changes that are known to be associated with increased risk of atherosclerosis are seen in patients treated with androgens and anabolic steroids. These changes include decreased high-density lipoprotein and sometimes increased low-density lipoprotein. The changes may be very marked and could have a serious impact on the risk of atherosclerosis and coronary artery disease.

 

[B5150]

Your LDL is great. Your HDL is bad (low). Pre cycle data would have been able to see if your cycle is the culprit.

Eat some whole eggs and some good fats. JMO

What was your post cycle therapy for that cycle? My guess is AI's...yes,...no?

 

[Travis]

Your LDL is great. Your HDL is bad (low). Pre cycle data would have been able to see if your cycle is the culprit.

Eat some whole eggs and some good fats. JMO

What was your post cycle therapy for that cycle? My guess is AI's...yes,...no?

Your right, I think I posted my LDL was bad. Meant to say HDL.

Why whole eggs? Wouldnt that raise my total cholesterol putting my cholesterol to HDL ration even more out of wack? I do eat a TON of hard boiled egg whites, but no yoke.

My PCT consisted of Nolva, Massfx, and restore. So yes. Why do you ask that?

 

[Travis]

Also since we are on the topic of cholesterol I have a couple more basic questions.

HDL carries cholesterol away from your arteries to your liver. Is it safe to assume when your HDL is low then more than likely you are storing more fat deposits on your arteries? Or is that a bad assumption? Sorry, I'm still learning this bio stuff.

 

[B5150]

It is my understanding that AI's can be bad for your cholesterol. That may not be across the board, but things like Arimidex are.

My opinion on the eggs is that it will raise your total cholesterol, which by the way is on the low side. There are studies that suggest that there are good things in yolks done in moderation. I'm going by memory but will look up some references and see if I can post them.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Also since we are on the topic of cholesterol I have a couple more basic questions.

HDL carries cholesterol away from your arteries to your liver. Is it safe to assume when your HDL is low then more than likely you are storing more fat deposits on your arteries? Or is that a bad assumption? Sorry, I'm still learning this bio stuff.

It doesn't necessarily mean increased fat deposits, but it would increase the number of free floating LDL particles(since HDL actually shuttles it out thru the liver) susceptible to oxidation and subsequent plaque formation.

Try subbing some good old extra virgin olive oil into your diet. Mono fats are shown to increase hdl and control ldl levels.

 

[B5150]

Like I said i may be mistaken about the eggs and don't want to spend my night on google.

More EVOO, F/O and other good fats can raise your HDL.

Your total cholesterol is (too) low so if it were me I would allow for some whole eggs in moderation. Anything lower than 140-150 can be less than optimum for your body and its peripheral hormone production. Again, JMO and I am by no means an expert.

 

[UNCfan1]

Travis I agree with the above stated on cholestrol. Numbers look good though. Did u run liver proctection during and post?

My cholestrol looks almost the same as urs. I think its 2 points higher or something. A lady from the Red cross told me awhile back that cardio helps with that too. I never looked into. But def up ur healthy fats.

Reps coming ur way!

 

[Travis]

Thanks for the replies. I did use AI's Cycle Support during cycle but not during PCT. Also I was basically doing limited cardio once/week during cycle and PCT. I have since upped it to 3x/week and I will do that for my upcoming cycle as well.

FWIW I am pretty much using cycle support (in smaller doses) all the time now.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

The cardio increase should help.... very good an increasing those HDL's not to mention all the other benefits.

 

[UNCfan1]

The cardio increase should help.... very good an increasing those HDL's not to mention all the other benefits.

It was a couple years ago when she told me that and I was like whatever I am bulking lol. But it did end up helping.

Young and dumb^

 

[UNCfan1]

Thanks for the replies. I did use AI's Cycle Support during cycle but not during post cycle therapy. Also I was basically doing limited cardio once/week during cycle and PCT. I have since upped it to 3x/week and I will do that for my upcoming cycle as well.

FWIW I am pretty much using cycle support (in smaller doses) all the time now.

Thats cool. I thought about doing that aswell, but just with some milk thistle. I always cut back on my cardio too while on cycle and as of late altogether. I tend melt away. But I have figured out some ways to help out on that.

Again thanks for posting ur BW cause I am gearing up for an Epi cycle too.

 

[B5150]

You do know when I said 'AI's' I meant aromatase inhibitors...right

 

[Travis]

You do know when I said 'AI's' I meant aromatase inhibitors...right

Yes YES, of course. I think I am going to stop saying "AI's Cycle Support" and just call it Cycle support to avoid confusion!

 

[yeahright]

Niacin (Vitamin B3, Nicotinic acid), Niacinamide - MayoClinic.com

Omega-3 fatty acids, fish oil, alpha-linolenic acid - MayoClinic.com

Cholesterol-lowering supplements: Another way to reduce cholesterol - MayoClinic.com

 

[prld2gr8ns]

It was a couple years ago when she told me that and I was like whatever I am bulking lol. But it did end up helping.

Young and dumb^

Yep, that and red wine are pretty much surefire ways to boost HDL levels.

 

[Travis]

Niacin (Vitamin B3, Nicotinic acid), Niacinamide - MayoClinic.com

Omega-3 fatty acids, fish oil, alpha-linolenic acid - MayoClinic.com

Cholesterol-lowering supplements: Another way to reduce cholesterol - MayoClinic.com

I supplement 50mg of Niacin orally everyday (included in my b-complex). Should I increase the dosage while on cycle/pct?

 

[Travis]

Niacin (Vitamin B3, Nicotinic acid), Niacinamide - MayoClinic.com

Omega-3 fatty acids, fish oil, alpha-linolenic acid - MayoClinic.com

Cholesterol-lowering supplements: Another way to reduce cholesterol - MayoClinic.com

Great post btw, very informative. Might try to supplement some of those additional items for extra support.

 

[bg5757]

so what kind of gains did you make off your cycle? any strength and size numbers? would you recommend havoc? thanks

 

[UNCfan1]

I supplement 50mg of Niacin orally everyday (included in my b-complex). Should I increase the dosage while on cycle/post cycle therapy?

You could up to around 400mg and be ok. I think more than 2g a day is when it gets toxic.

I take my b-complex 3-4x a day getting 300-400mg a day.

 

[B5150]

Could I been the voice of reason for a minute?

Your HDL is a whole 7 points below the low end of the range. If indeed it is or was caused by Havoc is debatable, but likely. But since you have no pre cycle bloodwork this cannot conclusive.

In my opinion, I would save my money on all these ancillaries/supplements and just eat right including f/o and evoo and wait and do a retest.

If it was the cycle it will rebound on its own as long as you have no history of cholesterol issue. I believe you are worrying yourself and will make your pocket lighter for something that will correct itself in short time on its own. I'd wait 6-8 weeks and retest.

JMHO Good luck

 

[neoborn]

Could I been the voice of reason for a minute?

Your HDL is a whole 7 points below the low end of the range. If indeed it is or was caused by Havoc is debatable, but Unlikely. But since you have no pre cycle bloodwork this cannot conclusive.

Fixed. :thumbsup:

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I think he ment to say that neo.

 

[B5150]

I think he ment to say that neo.

Yes, I did mean to say likely. Where is all the bloodwork that supports it NOT effecting HDL? There has been very very little if any bloodwork at all. Had he had pre cycle bloodwork then we could conclude it is because of the Havok. But IMHO it is safer to assume it is than not.

 

[Travis]

Could I been the voice of reason for a minute?

Your HDL is a whole 7 points below the low end of the range. If indeed it is or was caused by Havoc is debatable, but likely. But since you have no pre cycle bloodwork this cannot conclusive.

In my opinion, I would save my money on all these ancillaries/supplements and just eat right including f/o and evoo and wait and do a retest.

If it was the cycle it will rebound on its own as long as you have no history of cholesterol issue. I believe you are worrying yourself and will make your pocket lighter for something that will correct itself in short time on its own. I'd wait 6-8 weeks and retest.

JMHO Good luck

This blood was actually taken June 19th so a month ago today. I really was just inquiring what I could do to improve my lipid profile while ON cycle again. Plus its just a good discussion to have. But yeah eating right is always first priority.

 

[B5150]

I just wanted to help elleviate any anxiety in the event that you may have had some. I know I have had a few moments myself and am always grateful for a more soothing voice on the matter