what-do-you-mean-[it works?]

[skull]

Pat Arnold

The TA can be dissolved into DMSO, or Andro Spray, or alcohol etc. and applied transdermally as an option. Another option is just to crush them and eat them. Believe it or not, trenbolone is very orally active and is excreted as a conjugate of either unchanged trenbolone or the 17-epimer of trenbolone (meaning it is very resistant to metabolic inactivation). Hey, it’s all in the scientific literature if you do not believe me. The only problem is that the half life is might not be very long, so you might have to pop the stuff 4 times a day. But the total absorption into the body will be higher taking it orally than taking it transdermally so it might be worth it. The injectable is still best of course. "

BC---------Patrick Arnold is THE authority on steroids in the world. There is none like him. If you want absolute certainty on these issues, he'd be the one to ask. The problem is he knows it as well and really likes to show it off. I mean, I'm a molecular biologist and few know what I know, but he makes me feel like a little kid sometimes.

I'd like to actually see the lit on it as well. But the triple double bond does suggest increased oréal availability, something to do with liver enzymes not being able to bind it properly. A 4 double bond in conjucntion with another upper nucleus double bond will achieve that (as with boldenone) and tren has two upper nucleus double bonds. I assume that's where the explanation lies. The numbers I have heard are about 25-30%. Meaning you would get good results using 200-240 (10-12 pellets) per day orally. Same results as injecting 75/day.--------------------------------------------------------I know its old news --but I nver heard the explanation for it

 

[wrestler119]

I have personally done this and I dont think the results were that great. Then again I was cutting, so I dont know. I think I did 12 pellets/day, or 4 pellets 3x daily.

 

[thesinner]

Tren ace has an oral bioavailability of about 25%; therefore, it is more plausable to eat finaplix than to create a transdermal solution. However, 25% or eating it vs. 100% of injecting it leads me to believe that it's cheaper to inject.

 

[skull]

Tren ace has an oral bioavailability of about 25%; therefore, it is more plausable to eat finaplix than to create a transdermal solution. However, 25% or eating it vs. 100% of injecting it leads me to believe that it's cheaper to inject.

well when you think about all the problems with inj tren ace like --how many times you need to inj--too much BA--abcess from dirty tren --cough--ect---and as far as $ --when you cover a sources minimum plus delivery plus all the supplies you need --it could be cheaper to eat it--IMOP alot of people who say its no good--have some other motives --like the kit makers ect

 

[thesinner]

well when you think about all the problems with inj tren ace like --how many times you need to inj--too much BA--abcess from dirty tren --cough--ect---and as far as $ --when you cover a sources minimum plus delivery plus all the supplies you need --it could be cheaper to eat it--its my opion that alot of people who say its no good--have some other motives --like the kit makers ect

sorry, I as assuming that you were talking about using tren ace from steroidal cattle implants. In which case (I know because I was thinking of doing it, until I realized how much it would cost) be cheaper to buy a conversion kit to make into an injectable.

 

[rampage jackson]

I wonder how hepatoxic it is when eaten...

 

[RedwolfWV]

I wonder how hepatoxic it is when eaten...

If its hepatoxic when eaten, wouldn't it be just as hepatoxic if injected?? Your only delaying the pass through the liver, not eliminating it.

 

[wojo]

i did this also years ago when this first came out on AE..it worked ok for me but you piss yellow nonstop because of the talc used for the pellets

 

[thesinner]

If its hepatoxic when eaten, wouldn't it be just as hepatoxic if injected?? Your only delaying the pass through the liver, not eliminating it.

That is a really good point, and many people neglect that. If I weren't such a rep whore (and the system allowed me), I'd rep ya.

 

[RedwolfWV]

That is a really good point, and many people neglect that. If I weren't such a rep whore (and the system allowed me), I'd rep ya.

Hey, its the thought that counts!

 

[skull]

well all I can say right now --when I first looked into this years ago I was interested in TD[didnt want to inj]I didnt think eating pellets was an option---all I read was the glue and the binders will kill ya--well come to find out theres no glue and the binders are the same thing you find in some laxitives at the store . So as I dug a little deeper I found other posts that only seemed to come up on google searches-like they where hidden away --of course they dont do that sort of thing here:nono:

 

[vlad878]

wut if u could make it a liquid oral the alchohol will wase away all the binders

 

[thesinner]

Well considering that alcohol is a pretty decent solvent, it's probable that you could dissolve the glue and binders as well.

 

[skull]

Well considering that alcohol is a pretty decent solvent, it's probable that you could dissolve the glue and binders as well.

NO GLUE !:donut:

 

[wojo]

its talc...on the same site that PA wrote that article there is a article by BK explaining he contacted the manufacturer and they told him they use talc and pressure to make the pellets

 

[thesinner]

its talc...on the same site that PA wrote that article there is a article by BK explaining he contacted the manufacturer and they told him they use talc and pressure to make the pellets

I wouldn't imagine they used anything deadly or poisonous; afterall, these are being implanted into a cow.

 

[fatsuperman]

very interesting idea about the alcohol

You could dissolve the crushed tablets into a bare minimum of ethyl alcohol, syphon off the top solution, leaving the binders in the bottom.

Put it in a dropper, assuming that you got 80 to 90% of the hormone and eye drop it down.

I think I'm gonna try this sometime, just cause I'm a curious type.

 

[wojo]

well if your going to do all that just wattman filter it..it will be easier and clener

 

[texxlnghorn]

buy a proper kit to convert the pellets.

 

[vlad878]

O Yea Now Everyone Wants To Copy My Idea Lol

 

[TeamSavage]

Just run the dissolved pellets through a coffee filter or t-shirt. That will get the binder and leave only the tren ace.

This is an interesting idea. I agree injecting is cheaper, but for needlephobes, it lookes like eating may be the way to go versus transdermal.

 

[fatsuperman]

Your right, a kit an injecting would be the way to go for ideal use.

But, I'm just curious to see if such a thing could work, for knowledge's sake.

 

[BigVrunga]

A good TD matrix can get you up around 40% absorption...

 

[thesinner]

A good TD matrix can get you up around 40% absorption...

What's a good TD matrix, and is it going to be cost effective versus 'pellet-munching'?

 

[BigVrunga]

What's a good TD matrix, and is it going to be cost effective versus 'pellet-munching'?

Well it will cost you money to mix it up, but you could save ~2x the actives. Its up to you if the cost of buying/making a transdermal carrier and the work that goes along with using that form of administration is right for you. Check out the transdermals forum if you're interested.

BV

 

[thesinner]

Well it will cost you money to mix it up, but you could save ~2x the actives. Its up to you if the cost of buying/making a transdermal carrier and the work that goes along with using that form of administration is right for you. Check out the transdermals forum if you're interested.

BV

I've read some of your recipes from the TD forum. 40% is quite an effective matrix, and that put the name "Finaderm" in my mind (which is a little pricey). Now there's a bunch variables such as cycle length, dosing, saturation concentration of carrier matrix, and cost of fina pellets that would need to be factored to see how which is more 'cost efficient'.

I'm sure once all the cost calcs are put together, you'll only make a small percentage of cost savings from one method to another.

 

[skull]

well Ive been taking 10 pellets in 2doses [orally]for 7 days with some flax and wash it down with a protien shake--no real bad sides to report[slight stomach upset] no big deal--WT up 4lbs strength up--noticing viens popping out--Planning to take 12 pellets in 3 doses and also add some grapefruit juice[to extend halflife] all the threads Ive read most quit 2-3weeks for a number of reasons

 

[rugger48]

If its hepatoxic when eaten, wouldn't it be just as hepatoxic if injected?? Your only delaying the pass through the liver, not eliminating it.

No, injectable isnt as hard on the liver

 

[RedwolfWV]

No, injectable isnt as hard on the liver

I'd need a medical explaination of this before I'd believe it. No disrespect meant.

 

[rugger48]

I'd need a medical explaination of this before I'd believe it. No disrespect meant.

double post

 

[rugger48]

I'd need a medical explaination of this before I'd believe it. No disrespect meant.

Its common knowledge, just google it. Injection allows one to bypass first pass through the liver, plus oral have to be taken more frequently.

 

[skull]

Its common knowledge, just google it. Injection allows one to bypass first pass through the liver, plus oral have to be taken more frequently.

OK --what about the second pass/third -ect till its out of the blood--I mean just think about it :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

 

[RedwolfWV]

Thats my point. It only delays getting to the liver. All of it still gets there though, and has to be processed.

I did google this, and have come up empty handed. Links to medical facts would be appreciated if anyone has them.

 

[rugger48]

OK --what about the second pass/third -ect till its out of the blood--I mean just think about it :think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

Why do you think doctors prescribe injectable over oral,oral have a shorter half life and need to be taken more frequently like dbol for instance. when taking an oral it all gets broken down all at once. Just because injectable goes through the liver once doesnt make it all of sudden damaging to the liver like an oral, do you think that all 250 mgs of an test e injection goes through the liver all at once? Im not saying injectable dont tax the liver at all, but not as much as an oral. seriously its common knowledge that orals are harder on the liver, again Im not saying that injectables are not in no way.

Go out and read more about abombs or dbol compared to deca, primo, test

If you need to hear it from a doctor, try here.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

 

[TeamSavage]

Why do you think doctors prescribe injectable over oral,oral have a shorter half life and need to be taken more frequently like dbol for instance. when taking an oral it all gets broken down all at once. Just because injectable goes through the liver once doesnt make it all of sudden damaging to the liver like an oral, do you think that all 250 mgs of an test e injection goes through the liver all at once? Im not saying injectable dont tax the liver at all, but not as much as an oral. seriously its common knowledge that orals are harder on the liver, again Im not saying that injectables are not in no way.

Go out and read more about abombs or dbol compared to deca, primo, test

If you need to hear it from a doctor, try here.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong. The reason most orals are more hepatoxic than injectables is because they are 17aa, a modification which allows them to survive the first-pass on the liver. It has to do with the chemical structure itself, not how they're taken. It's this modification (and the resulting metabolites) that makes them more hepatoxic. These same compounds (dbol, anadrol) would also be equally hepatoxic if you injected them.

It's true that 250mg of test e doesn't go through the liver all at once, because of the oil dissipation. But even if it did (if you injected test base, for instance), it still wouldn't be hepatoxic. If you took injectables orally, they still would not have the same hepatoxicity because they aren't 17aa (although many of them also wouldn't work well because they would be broken down on the first pass).

Tren ace taken orally will have approximately equal hepatoxicity to an equivalent dose of tren ace injected.

 

[rugger48]

Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong. The reason most orals are more hepatoxic than injectables is because they are 17aa, a modification which allows them to survive the first-pass on the liver. It has to do with the chemical structure itself, not how they're taken. It's this modification (and the resulting metabolites) that makes them more hepatoxic. These same compounds (dbol, anadrol) would also be equally hepatoxic if you injected them.

It's true that 250mg of test e doesn't go through the liver all at once, because of the oil dissipation. But even if it did (if you injected test base, for instance), it still wouldn't be hepatoxic. If you took injectables orally, they still would not have the same hepatoxicity because they aren't 17aa (although many of them also wouldn't work well because they would be broken down on the first pass).

Tren ace taken orally will have approximately equal hepatoxicity to an equivalent dose of tren ace injected.

I wasnt saying because they are oral is what makes them hepatoxic. I guess the way I described it I was saying that because you took orals more often is what made them more toxic. Im not very good at explaining stuff like that. I did know that was the case I just suck at descibing it. sorry.

 

[TeamSavage]

I wasnt saying because they are oral is what makes them hepatoxic. I guess the way I described it I was saying that because you took orals more often is what made them more toxic. Im not very good at explaining stuff like that. I did know that was the case I just suck at descibing it. sorry.

The frequency of doing is also not the issue. It's simply the chemical makeup. 2x daily injections of test base aren't any more hepatoxic than weekly injections of a long-estered test. You could take 500mg of 4AD 3x daily and it would be far less hepatoxic than taking 5mg of M1T once daily. The reason why most orals are hepatoxic and most injectables aren't is simply because most orals are methylated, and this specifically causes them to form hepatoxic metabolites.

 

[skull]

Sorry, but you're pretty much wrong. The reason most orals are more hepatoxic than injectables is because they are 17aa, a modification which allows them to survive the first-pass on the liver. It has to do with the chemical structure itself, not how they're taken. It's this modification (and the resulting metabolites) that makes them more hepatoxic. These same compounds (dbol, anadrol) would also be equally hepatoxic if you injected them.

It's true that 250mg of test e doesn't go through the liver all at once, because of the oil dissipation. But even if it did (if you injected test base, for instance), it still wouldn't be hepatoxic. If you took injectables orally, they still would not have the same hepatoxicity because they aren't 17aa (although many of them also wouldn't work well because they would be broken down on the first pass).

Tren ace taken orally will have approximately equal hepatoxicity to an equivalent dose of tren ace injected.

why do they say that tren ace is [hepatoxic] rough on liver[kidneys]when its not 17aa methylated?

 

[RedwolfWV]

Lots of things are tough on the liver. Alcohol isn't 17aa methylated and it can ruin a good liver. Same with Tylenol.

If you mean Tren specifically, I don't really have an answer for you. I've heard that some think because it changes the color of your urine that its hard on the kidneys. But, I've also heard thats just the color of the metabolites and there is no problem.

 

[skull]

Lots of things are tough on the liver. Alcohol isn't 17aa methylated and it can ruin a good liver. Same with Tylenol.

If you mean Tren specifically, I don't really have an answer for you. I've heard that some think because it changes the color of your urine that its hard on the kidneys. But, I've also heard thats just the color of the metabolites and there is no problem.

YA I hear what your saying ,but it makes a big difference [ to me anyway ] if somethings just a little "rough on the liver"or if its "HEPATOXIC" :fool2: :fool2:

 

[RedwolfWV]

I hear ya

 

[BasConnery]

Tren ace taken orally will have approximately equal hepatoxicity to an equivalent dose of tren ace injected.

Yep, you're right, BUT, you're wasting a product due to oral bioavailability. I'm poor so I can't waste money. Why waste 75% or more of the product you buy. Injecting is the SMART way.

 

[skull]

Yep, you're right, BUT, you're wasting a product due to oral bioavailability. I'm poor so I can't waste money. Why waste 75% or more of the product you buy. Injecting is the SMART way.

WELLLL---my molecular biologist is PA and he says oral tren [with flax] is 25% -30% bioavailability and if you add grapfruit juice, that adds close to another 20%-25%--so I kinda like those odds:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

 

[TeamSavage]

Yep, you're right, BUT, you're wasting a product due to oral bioavailability. I'm poor so I can't waste money. Why waste 75% or more of the product you buy. Injecting is the SMART way.

Agreed. As I said, this just makes oral of cattle implants a viable option for needlephobes (or people too lazy to do the conversion).

 

[skull]

well incase anyones interested Im still doin this oral tren cycle .I will keep a mini log here --Im comin up on 3 weeks of 4 pellets 3xs PD [flax/grapefruit juice]---gained just under 10lbs on same diet---no stomach upset --no cough--sleep is good --BP is good ---no dark urine [drink water]--also taking 80 mcg of lr3 IGF once week--no shut down [quite the opposite]--no gyno---strength is great[viens popping everywhere]--other things I take e/c--25mgt3--r ala--nettle root--seem to be getting a healing effect on joints--one dissapointment not much fat loss --need to tighten up diet--SWEATING a lot more than normal--morning/night and that tren smell big time--I tried to show in my avatar the viens popping but my camras not to good

 

[skull]

well, coming up on week 4 of oral tren--nothing new to report except gained a few more pounds -12/13 pnds total now and a good portion seems to be fat,not to happy about that.My cals are the same before I started.Everything I read about tren says you can eat well and still lose fat ,well not for me I should of learned my lesson last summer when I mixed up a killer batch of TD, stuck it out for 7 weeks and gained a lot of fat also.Guess I cant complain , I dont seem to get any of the sides most get.Ill just use it for a bulker in the future.Now Im thinkin about giving Tbol a run and because tren was not 17aa I dont imagin much pct is needed.

 

[fatsuperman]

Hows the strength coming along Skull?

Are you getting any better lifts up?

 

[skull]

Hows the strength coming along Skull?

Are you getting any better lifts up?

Yes I was "upping" all my lifts 5/10 pnds--I would say strength was good [not great] I just think all that fat loss talk is BS , unless your in a neg cal diet

 

[fatsuperman]

Yea I think tren isn't all that good of a cutter unless you are running pretty restrictive on cals.