Elbow Injury and Low Estrogen

[gabber]

Hi guys I'm kinda new here and this may be a pretty simple question but here goes...

I have been using Havoc for 4 weeks now and my strength has gone up a hell of a lot. So much so, in fact, that I believe it is the cause of my elbow hurting real bad. I can only describe it as tennis elbow as it seems the tendons have become loose from overloading the right triceps muscle. Could this be because I have become too strong for my own tendons?

I understand that low estrogen contributes to slow healing of bones and tendons so my question is this: Do I need to wait for my estrogen to raise back up before this is likely to heal properly? I am about to start Nolvadex and I understand that this renders estrogen pretty useless so that could be another 4 or 5 weeks with lowish estrogen response. Under the circumstances what should I do? The injury is not really really serious but it would prevent me from doing a chest workout and would hamper a back workout. Thanks!

 

[gabber]

I also plan on reducing my training volume during PCT as I know that natural test will be lower than before the cycle. With such low test its pointless training hard, so for the first week or 2 I will train light.

 

[bitterplacebo]

Yes, it's a good idea to back down on training volume. But I would try to keep up with as heavy a weight that you were using, so long as you don't aggravate injuries.

Nolvadex, a SERM, does not render estrogen useless in all bodily tissues. That's why it's called a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. Nolvadex will act to increase estrogen receptor's response in some tissues (agonist), while decreasing estrogen receptor's response in other tissues (antagonist). Other SERMs can be purely agonistic, antagonistic, or a mix of the two, like Nolvadex is.

I don't know the details on which tissues are under which category with Nolvadex, I'll try to find out for you. I just mainly know it's an antagonist in breast tissues, and that helps prevent breast growth after steroid cycles.

Couldn't find exact list of all tissue specificities for Tamoxifen, but I've never heard joint pain as a side effect, if that helps any.

 

[Werewolf]

Cissus is first line of defense for tendons injuries.

When you boost your muscle developement using steriods the tendon strenght is going to fall behind since steriods do nothing for tendons. As you get older, your HGH and IGF-1 drop off tendons don't heal and streghten as fast. Since I have gone from benching 160lb to 275lb (5 reps) after age 40, Joints and tendons are always concern for me. All joints and tendons are healthy currently.

This thread will lead to more reading material than you probably want:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/68797-igf-1-injuries.html

 

[jomi822]

youre injury is due to the excessive strength gains. the muscle tissue strengthens and grows much faster than your connective tissue. what youre experiencing is not uncommon for a first cycle.

when i experience it, i just work through it. you may also want to consider the recommendations above. cissus and igf-1 will greatly improve your condition

 

[gabber]

thanks guys i trained yesterday a little lighter than i have been and both elbows showed signs of strain. they feel fine now though; it sorta comes and goes. I think I will be fine though as long as I don't push hard for a couple of weeks. HOw long before I can go real heavy again?

 

[Werewolf]

thanks guys i trained yesterday a little lighter than i have been and both elbows showed signs of strain. they feel fine now though; it sorta comes and goes. I think I will be fine though as long as I don't push hard for a couple of weeks. HOw long before I can go real heavy again?

I am afraid you have to listen to your body and work back up as it allows you.

Are you taking anything to help heal?

Cissus?

 

[gabber]

I'm not using anyhting specifically for it. I just finished a chest workout half an hour ago. As I am coming off cycle I trained with lower volume but with a heavy enough weight. Equalled my personal best on decline dumbell press for example but only did 1 set and 2 slightly lighter sets with lots of recovery inbetween. Elbow felt fine throughout the workout and its in the last 10 mins that it has started to tingle and become tender. I feel like its healing up and am happy to continue. 2 weeks ago it was not bearable so I just stopped and rested tris for 5 days. I'm happy to continue as is, for now as I think its improving. Not overly concerned anymore as I know the estrogen will help heal once it comes into play. I just wanted to make sure that was the case Thanks.

 

[gabber]

bitterplacebo, if you are saying joint pain is a side effect of tamoxifen then are you suggesting that whilst using nolvadex, my connective tissues will not heal and I will need to wait 'till afterwards? Thats what it sounds like but as I say, I feel like I'm on the mend. Don't feel like I'm making things worse so will continue training and take a week break in the next few weeks. Thanks.

 

[bitterplacebo]

bitterplacebo, if you are saying joint pain is a side effect of tamoxifen then are you suggesting that whilst using nolvadex, my connective tissues will not heal and I will need to wait 'till afterwards? Thats what it sounds like but as I say, I feel like I'm on the mend. Don't feel like I'm making things worse so will continue training and take a week break in the next few weeks. Thanks.

No, that's not what I was saying. You shouldn't have a problem with tamoxifen and your joints.

But if you added in an aromatase inhibitor, then you might feel worse.

Besides joint health supplements that you could add, I've heard that higher-rep exercises with greater lactic acid production can help you better repair tendons and stuff that's been stressed.

Instead of just taking complete time off, it might be better to substitute a higher rep (~15+) set for a while in the areas where you're aching.

 

[gabber]

Thanks for clearing that up for me buddy and thanks again for yet more advice. I have learned so much here its unbelievable and so much more to learn too