Possible "safe-ish" cycle ideas

[pudzian2]

This is very broad and I will get into details (dosages, pinning days, PCT, Support\secondary drugs) at a later time but as far as determining which compounds I'd like to stack im thinkign along the lines of these options:

1.) Test enth
EQ
Primo

2.) Sust 250
Primo
(var?)

Open to many suggestions...What do you think. (cycle would probably be 10-12 weeks)

 

[human]

Creatine

 

[Raz65]

Creatine

Thats helpful.:wtf:

 

[human]

I thought it was ,but what ever. You dont have big balls unless you r using creatine.

 

[pudzian2]

haha yea but seriously....

 

[smc252]

This is very broad and I will get into details (dosages, pinning days, post cycle therapy, Supportsecondary drugs) at a later time but as far as determining which compounds I'd like to stack im thinkign along the lines of these options:

1.) Test enth
EQ
Primo

2.) Sust 250
Primo
(var?)

Open to many suggestions...What do you think. (cycle would probably be 10-12 weeks)

:stick:

 

[pistonpump]

i like number 2 with var but damn! that would be an expensive one!

 

[pudzian2]

i like number 2 with var but damn! that would be an expensive one!

I agree man but theyr high quality compounds and you get what you pay for (sort of). better to do fewer, safer, quality cycles then many unsafe drastic ones...IMO

The thing is i can get enanthate much easier than sust but sust is ideal for me, thats why i thought of option 1.

 

[pistonpump]

why is sust ideal for you? Enan is cheaper too i imagine. those will be some very lean gains.

is that you in the avy?

 

[pudzian2]

why is sust ideal for you? Enan is cheaper too i imagine. those will be some very lean gains.

is that you in the avy?

Yea thats me... and i just kinda dont want to wait for the enan to kick in, the sust would hit quicker but it doesnt really matter. Im really almost set on that cycle. now i just have to plan my dosages and PCT. im torn between an 8 week or a 10 week cycle. I dont know about running it for 12.. even at 10 i would probably wanna use HCG while ON..but this is a whole different discussion in itseslf.. anyway. what do you think?

 

[pudzian2]

BTW pp, why would you prefer the var over the eq if i were to do a Test enth, Primo, and (var or Eq)....

 

[pistonpump]

well since you dont want to run to long of a cycle id def. go with the var. Eq takes a good while, forreal. Have you ever used var or eq? Ive never used var so im just going off of what ive seen with eq.

 

[pudzian2]

i havent used either to date, but i monitored a friend on EQ, and what you said seems to be true about it kicking in..Var it is!

 

[pistonpump]

what doses you looking at?

cycle history?

stats?

its gonna be a pretty penny.

 

[pudzian2]

what doses you looking at?

cycle history?

stats?

its gonna be a pretty penny.

im not worried about price. Id rather do fewer quality cycles than a bunch of uneducated cheap cycles. I think i may just run test enth and primo at higher doses, and skip the var. who needs a 17aa anyway..hah.

I havent actually sat and planned out the specifics of the cycle, im just trying to arrange compounds.

I would like to keep in touch pp as i plan things out..which will be soon. the cycle wont be for a while. im only 1 week into PCT of a 6 week PH cycle.

Cycle history. Id rather discuss via PM.

Stats:
(my avatar pic is me)
height: 5'9
weight: 215-220 depending on time of day, food\water etc
bf% (clipped): 7.6
Status: off season, possibly a show in May, but probably not until 2009. i still have improvements to make until im happy.



Goal: lean quality mass.

 

[CHAPS]

This is very broad and I will get into details (dosages, pinning days, post cycle therapy, Supportsecondary drugs) at a later time but as far as determining which compounds I'd like to stack im thinkign along the lines of these options:

1.) Test enth
EQ
Primo

2.) Sust 250
Primo
(var?)

Open to many suggestions...What do you think. (cycle would probably be 10-12 weeks)

First off how many years have you been training? And what is your body weight? I'm thinking the following would be perfect for you:

Weeks 1-12 500mg Testosterone Enthanate
Weeks 1-8 30mg Epistane
Weeks 1-14 50mg Proviron

i'll hold off on the pct for now i'm sure others will chime in as well. So you've got your base (test) and a highly anabolic oral (epi), so these two compounds compliment each other very well, and the epi has very few sides and does not aromatize to estrogen it also helps to control estrogenic side effects. The proviron will free up any testosterone that gets bound up so your getting more bang or your buck from the test E, this would be a low side effect stack and with it being your first cycle 20-25lbs of mass can be obtained :cheers:

 

[pudzian2]

First off how many years have you been training? And what is your body weight? I'm thinking the following would be perfect for you:

Weeks 1-12 500mg Testosterone Enthanate
Weeks 1-8 30mg Epistane
Weeks 1-14 50mg Proviron

i'll hold off on the post cycle therapy for now i'm sure others will chime in as well. So you've got your base (test) and a highly anabolic oral (epi), so these two compounds compliment each other very well, and the epi has very few sides and does not aromatize to estrogen it also helps to control estrogenic side effects. The proviron will free up any testosterone that gets bound up so your getting more bang or your buck from the test E, this would be a low side effect stack and with it being your first cycle 20-25lbs of mass can be obtained :cheers:

a little over 4 years training. stats were posted above. and i like that idea. thanks for the suggestions. I do have a bottle and a half of epi left. so that would save me some money.. the proviron seems like it would work well with these two compounds as far as minimizing side effects.

just for the sake of conversation, why would you recommend these compounds in place of say 600mg\wk test enth, and a relatively high dose of primo...and possibly var...

not sure what it is but ive always been attracted to primo, dont have any experience with it but was always curious to try it out. have you used it?

wow these are two really good cycle options, im pretty torn. the only thing im worried about is the oral. i know epi is not that toxic, but still. your suggestion would make sense since i have alot of epi left.

 

[CHAPS]

a little over 4 years training. stats were posted above. and i like that idea. thanks for the suggestions. I do have a bottle and a half of epi left. so that would save me some money.. the proviron seems like it would work well with these two compounds as far as minimizing side effects.

just for the sake of conversation, why would you recommend these compounds in place of say 600mg\wk test enth, and a relatively high dose of primo...and possibly var...

not sure what it is but ive always been attracted to primo, dont have any experience with it but was always curious to try it out. have you used it?

wow these are two really good cycle options, im pretty torn. the only thing im worried about is the oral. i know epi is not that toxic, but still. your suggestion would make sense since i have alot of epi left.

Personally i would shoot for 600mg of Test E, primo is a weaker steroid, that is more expensive but considering it's your first cycle you could very well do something like:

500mg Test/500mg primo

As far as Epistane goes it's very gental on the system, guys are even going up to 70mg/day! Though that is not recommened . But ya even at 70mg/day the most they are feeling is some back pumps. If you have the money then by all means go with primo, no i have not used it personally because i think their are better options for gains or for cutting for way cheaper. Primo is just sooooooo expensive for what it is, if i was going to bulk i'd take deca over primo if i was going to cut i'd take tren over primo. PM me your cycle history, i just re-read the posts i thought we were talkin a first cycle here.

 

[pudzian2]

Personally i would shoot for 600mg of Test E, primo is a weaker steroid, that is more expensive but considering it's your first cycle you could very well do something like:

500mg Test/500mg primo

As far as Epistane goes it's very gental on the system, guys are even going up to 70mg/day! Though that is not recommened . But ya even at 70mg/day the most they are feeling is some back pumps. If you have the money then by all means go with primo, no i have not used it personally because i think their are better options for gains or for cutting for way cheaper. Primo is just sooooooo expensive for what it is, if i was going to bulk i'd take deca over primo if i was going to cut i'd take tren over primo. PM me your cycle history, i just re-read the posts i thought we were talkin a first cycle here.

I see where you are coming from, and thanks for the insight bro. I was just thinking along the lines of sides. Deca and Test would be great for bulking, and Tren is great for cutting. but both are known for some pretty good side effects..I figure they would be more beneficial to me in later cycles, when my goals go to the extremes, like heavy bulking or cutting. My goal is something in the middle as of now (lean mass). It will be my first cycle of "gear" but my second cycle overall. I will just have to continue to weigh the pro's against the con's of your first suggestion vs the Test\primo combo. If i go with the latter, I may actually even go as high as 750mg Test\600mg Primo and keep the cycle down to about 10 (maybe 12) weeks. ( with these dosages I will most definately start introducing a variety of ancillaries...(adex etc.)

 

[pistonpump]

id say go with the primo since you are into it. 750t 600p sounds good. or you can even go with 500mg test. Primo has a half life of 10.5 days just like test E so you would start and stop , shoot at the same times.

Now if you want lean gains and want to add an oral Anavar is nice but costly, you might want to try Turinabol or your leftover Epistane.

If you want to spend the cash go with Aromasin as your AI. It is the best choice and ill probably only use that as my AI from now on. It increases IGF levels unlike Adex & Nolva which lower it. Adex is cheaper most of time but it is weaker as well.

I dont know if i missed it but you have had no history or signs of gyno flaring up have you? Test will definately "test" you on that.

 

[pudzian2]

id say go with the primo since you are into it. 750t 600p sounds good. or you can even go with 500mg test. Primo has a half life of 10.5 days just like test E so you would start and stop , shoot at the same times.

Now if you want lean gains and want to add an oral Anavar is nice but costly, you might want to try Turinabol or your leftover Epistane.

If you want to spend the cash go with Aromasin as your AI. It is the best choice and ill probably only use that as my AI from now on. It increases IGF levels unlike Adex & Nolva which lower it. Adex is cheaper most of time but it is weaker as well.

I dont know if i missed it but you have had no history or signs of gyno flaring up have you? Test will definately "test" you on that.

yea the gyn is a concern of mine. My nipples got puffy and tender on my PH cycle,a nd are still a bit so during PCT. No real lumps to speak off, although i can feel what seems to be a very very small soft-ish lump behind the nipple which if i recall was there even before starting the PH's...(pubertal gyn maybe/..?) anyway, Id like to take the steps to prevent aggrivation on this upcoming cycle..

 

[idunk42]

600mgs primo is a decent dose, but its even better at 800-1000mgs, but its quite expensive, so if you can afford it, i would go witht higher dose, but 600 is good.

I would also throw the var in there as well. Ive heard good things about running high dose primo with var. Im planning on doing that at the tail end of my upcoming fall/winter cycle.

 

[smc252]

rule #1: don't be scared of using steroids.

Ignorance = BLISS

 

[pudzian2]

AHHH this is gonna cost me a limb...hmm well im set on the test, im definately kicking off with my leftover epi, but anyone want to throw thoughts out for a plan B, that is if i cant come up with nearly $$2000 for this cycle.... I mean i could, but if im not sacrificing much (gains vs sides) with a cheaper compound, then its worth throwing out there....thanks guys

 

[pistonpump]

well if you want to do a short cycle like 8 weeks....

test prop 1-8 @ 150mg eod
anavar 1-6 @ 50mg ed
or epi 1-6 @ 40mg ed
nolva 1-8 @ 10-20mg ed
igf-1 somewhere in there.

there are alot more options but if you are worried alot about sides then it takes out alot of compounds you could have in there. Test prop at that dose should be sufficient, you dont want to have to many compounds in your first test run. I have seriously thought of soooo many cycles i have alot of ideas but some are pretty extreme haha.

 

[pudzian2]

well if you want to do a short cycle like 8 weeks....

test prop 1-8 @ 150mg eod
anavar 1-6 @ 50mg ed
or epi 1-6 @ 40mg ed
nolva 1-8 @ 10-20mg ed
igf-1 somewhere in there.

there are alot more options but if you are worried alot about sides then it takes out alot of compounds you could have in there. Test prop at that dose should be sufficient, you dont want to have to many compounds in your first test run. I have seriously thought of soooo many cycles i have alot of ideas but some are pretty extreme haha.

haha nice bro.. yea Ill probably run somethign like that. Im pretty decided on 10-12 weeks of 600-750mg Test Enth, 40mg Epi weeks 1-5\6, 600mg EQ weeks 1-12, Epi 30-40mg weeks 12-14.. Then PCT with Toremifene, AI, Ancillaries etc and IGF-1 Definately. Since Ill save money from the Primo, I can afford IGF-1 in PCT..as for your extremem cycles...dont forget em hah theres always a tiem when those are necessary. Plus they would be interesting for the sake of conversation

 

[pistonpump]

haha nice bro.. yea Ill probably run somethign like that. Im pretty decided on 10-12 weeks of 600-750mg Test Enth, 40mg Epi weeks 1-56, 600mg EQ weeks 1-12, Epi 30-40mg weeks 12-14.. Then post cycle therapy with Toremifene, AI, Ancillaries etc and IGF-1 Definately. Since Ill save money from the Primo, I can afford IGF-1 in PCT..as for your extremem cycles...dont forget em hah theres always a tiem when those are necessary. Plus they would be interesting for the sake of conversation

so you would be doing

1-12 test e @ 750mg
1-12 eq @ 600mg
1-5/6 epi @ 40mg
12-14 epi @ 40mg
15on PCT.

now i would consider running the oral ending into week 15 and starting PCT on week 16 because of the EQ ester which is about a week longer in life than the enanthate. I dont think you should stop the EQ at week 11 to compensate as 12 weeks is about the minimum. I saw the EQ effects clearly starting in week 8.

 

[pudzian2]

so you would be doing

1-12 test e @ 750mg
1-12 eq @ 600mg
1-5/6 epi @ 40mg
12-14 epi @ 40mg
15on post cycle therapy.

now i would consider running the oral ending into week 15 and starting PCT on week 16 because of the EQ ester which is about a week longer in life than the enanthate. I dont think you should stop the EQ at week 11 to compensate as 12 weeks is about the minimum. I saw the EQ effects clearly starting in week 8.

so on paper that would really be epi @40mg weeks 12-15 and then 16+ =PCT. Correct me if im wrong, but this would mean that im stopping both the eq and the test e at the end of week 12? (so as not to compensate like you mentioned). Sounds good to me...

 

[pistonpump]

yeah, you got it.

 

[pudzian2]

thanks again bro. ill keep you updated.

 

[pudzian2]

Question 1--
any recommendations: ON cycle: 10-20mg nolva\ralox (what would be an equivalent ralox dose? I have an unopened bottle of it). or an AI like aromasin? should both be used together to control estrogen? i dont think this is necessary during the first half of the cycle when im using epi, but as for the rest of the cycle what do you suggest?

Question 2--
In my PCT i am set on running a SERM inversely to an AI. currently im doing my PCT with hyperdrol x2 as the AI. for this upcoming cycle, should I stick with an AI like this, or use a steroidal AI like aromasin\adex?

Thanks guys

 

[pudzian2]

Can anyone fill me in on the last two questions..Calling Chaps or PumpingIron maybe...or Dr.D.

Also. What do you guys recommend for pin\needle size with these compounds? where have you had the most success (painlessness) injecting (glutes, quads, delts etc) thanks

 

[pistonpump]

23g 1 1/2" for larger muscles. 25g 1" for smaller ones, those are the only two i buy.

 

[pudzian2]

thanks guys

 

[fstfrddy]

can u help

im trying to see if you maybe can help, im thinking of trying SUS500 or masterdrol just wondering if anybody knows anything about them and what kind of pct's i might need or advice on how to take cycle with minimal sideffects thanks

 

[fstfrddy]

Haa Anyone Heard Of Sus500 Or Masterdrol If So Was It Good Or Bad?

 

[pudzian2]

Haa Anyone Heard Of Sus500 Or Masterdrol If So Was It Good Or Bad?

are you referring to a different name for sustanon 250? and im not framiliar with masterdrol, but if you need help with PCT feel free to PM me.

 

[pistonpump]

are you referring to a different name for sustanon 250? and im not framiliar with masterdrol, but if you need help with post cycle therapy feel free to PM me.

he's talking about superdrol and that IDS sust 500 legal oral steroid....


btw. fstfrrdy, do some research or start your own thread this is not a place to ask, in another guys thread. Its called ettiquite, however you spell that.

 

[pudzian2]

he's talking about superdrol and that IDS sust 500 legal oral steroid....


btw. fstfrrdy, do some research or start your own thread this is not a place to ask, in another guys thread. Its called ettiquite, however you spell that.

Thanks PP, anyway can any of you guys help me out with this new dilema. I would like to use Test Prop or nothign at all to kickoff this cycle that I have been planning on this thread. THe reason being my liver enzymes are SLIGHTLY elevated. No biggy, doctor isnt concerned, but still. screw orals.

 

[pistonpump]

no prob. just start with the test prop, what else is in the cycle, have you decided?

 

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by pistonpump
so you would be doing

1-12 test e @ 750mg
1-12 eq @ 600mg
1-5/6 epi @ 40mg
12-14 epi @ 40mg
15on post cycle therapy.

now i would consider running the oral ending into week 15 and starting post cycle therapy on week 16 because of the EQ ester which is about a week longer in life than the enanthate. I dont think you should stop the EQ at week 11 to compensate as 12 weeks is about the minimum. I saw the EQ effects clearly starting in week 8.
so on paper that would really be epi @40mg weeks 12-15 and then 16+ =post cycle therapy. Correct me if im wrong, but this would mean that im stopping both the eq and the test e at the end of week 12? (so as not to compensate like you mentioned). Sounds good to me...


thats what was decided on but Id like ot fill the epi gaps with test prop or nothing. I think if using nothing then the cycle will be quite a bit less potent with the little gap before PCT i may loose some gains and it may take FOREVER for the stuff to kick in with out a kickoff.

Im also deciding between running:
Test e-750
EQ-600

OR

Test e-600
EQ- (750-800)

 

[thesinner]

why is sust ideal for you? Enan is cheaper too i imagine. those will be some very lean gains.

is that you in the avy?

most sources I've seen it, sust has been the cheaper of the two.

 

[pudzian2]

I couldn't agree more, F*ck oral only cycles.

You're going to run epi twice in your cycle? any reason to that? If you're liver enzymes are already a little raised then epi isn't going to help that 1, and 2 running epi again is not going to further help your cause, and 3 post cycle therapy can be pretty harsh on your liver. Liquid nolvadex boosted my liver enzymes higher than what they were on cycle somehow. Doctor **** himself when the enzymes were "supposed to go down" because I was off the cycle. But 2 weeks later they went up some more from the nolva haha

no no well see, that was my original plan, before i knew that my enzymes were still elevated. I got my bloodwork back and since they are elevated that means that i am relatively sensitive to orals. So screw orals, and now its time to change the plan. I think replacing the epi with prop will be good. the epi was first used as a kick off and then also used as a filler for the time when the enan was depleting its levels in my blood until when i started the SERM. this was so i didnt loose mass during this phase. Im not sure if this part is necessary but it sure couldnt hurt, especially since prop could be used and its halflife is short enough. ill maybe just shoot it twice\ week to hold the test high until the SERM starts.

 

[pistonpump]

no no well see, that was my original plan, before i knew that my enzymes were still elevated. I got my bloodwork back and since they are elevated that means that i am relatively sensitive to orals. So screw orals, and now its time to change the plan. I think replacing the epi with prop will be good. the epi was first used as a kick off and then also used as a filler for the time when the enan was depleting its levels in my blood until when i started the SERM. this was so i didnt loose mass during this phase. Im not sure if this part is necessary but it sure couldnt hurt, especially since prop could be used and its halflife is short enough. ill maybe just shoot it twice\ week to hold the test high until the SERM starts.

so are you dumping the epi from the cycle completely and going with prop bookends?

also with making the EQ higher than the Test youll probably stay leaner and not make as much weight gain. THis is if you dont get the EQ hunger, youll be a veiny beeeotch at 800mg :twisted:

 

[pudzian2]

yea see its a toss up. im tryihng to see which one id prefer (bigger or more disgustingly awesomly vascular). haha and yes about dumping the epi and using prop instead

 

[pudzian2]

any advice for frontloading the Test\EQ? should the first shot be at full ON cycle dose. (375ishmg Test+ 300mg EQ) since Ill be pinning twice a week. What days usually work well for you guys? like monday and thursday pinning? Also if using Prop to kick off, should I still frontload with the full dose of the ON cycle compounds while using like 100mg prop EOD for the first 4 weeks?

somehow I see myself running 600ish mg Test + 600mg EQ just for ease splitting the dosages up evenly....

 

[pudzian2]

for PCT, I am positively running Tore, but i was thinkint about throwign a little clomiphene in there as well. Both will be tapered down over the 6 week course of PCT. Any dosage Ideas? or should i just stick to a higher dosage frontload of tor? I dont wanna suppress estrogen too much in PCT but i know that clomid has a great affinity for the Hypothalamus and therefore helps boost LH moreso than other SERMS. Tore seems to be great overall and i just feel like using both would be a good idea.

 

[Jstrong20]

I think dropping the epi and using prop is a good one. Although I did like pistonpumps cycle. I personally always liked prop and tne. I wouldn't bother frontloading since you have the prop in their. If your looking to save cash you could make your test out of synovex implants. Its cheap and effective. It sounds like you like the top of the line gear so it probably won't appeal to you but I figured I'd throw it out their.

 

[pudzian2]

thanks. yea Im still debating the epi\prop thing. My cycles gonna set me back enough becuase of all the gear adn ancillaries. Like you noticed im a firm believer in top of the line stuff, as well as top of the line ON cycle and and POST CYCLE therapy. so it all gets pricy. Im gonna get my liver enzymes re-checked in a week. If they came down significantly then I will just run the epi I have and save money on the Prop, (im on Liv.52 right now and i probably wont come off of it until i stop cycling).

still needin thoughts on the PCT SERM taper tho.

 

[Travis]

Are you planning to use HCG? I know you mentioned it earlier but never really said.

I think using clomid with the torm would be effective. I have never used either but as you said clomid helps boost LH better than other serms. I know that I plan to use clomid for PCT in the future and if the sides are too bad (clomid sides that is), you can just drop it without any negative repercussions from my understanding. It sounds as though you may already have experience with both so I think your PCT plan is solid.