1T/4AD vs. Superdrol Knockoff

[Chicken]

Anybody remember what the name of the 1t/4ad stack was called (specific brand name)? I seem to be having trouble locating info on this stack and I know it was quite popular. Everytime I search for it I get M1t/4add and such.

Anyway, how did the original PH's compare to the Methyls of today is what Im after. I am thinking of doing a transdermal of the old school stuff and would like some insight if youve got it.

I am running a superdrol knockoff right now, and Im going to cycle in 1t/4ad for an additional 8 weeks I think. 400 mg 1T/ 400 mg 4AD should be quite effective I hope.

 

[Strategic]

Avant Labs/Dermabolics made one of the most popular 1test/4ad transdermals called SuperOne+. I'm currently running a trans cycle of 300mg 1t + 500mg 4ad. Not including injectables, 1t/4ad transdermal is my favorite all time stack.

How long have you been running superdrol? If you've been on it for 2 weeks or more, I would finish the cycle, run pct, and save the 1t/4ad for your next cycle. If you start it while coming off superdrol, your hormone levels would likely crash since 1t/4ad takes a few weeks to kick in. If youre gonna run them together, the best way would be to start both at the same time. Superdrol would be a good jump starter for the cycle and 4ad helps counteract superdrol's lethargy.

You might want to increase your 4ad dose since 1test and superdrol both shut you down pretty bad.

 

[Chicken]

Well I just started the superdrol this week, so I have about three more to go on the SD and I will begin the 1t/4ad on Saturday. Hopefully the Superone+ is a bit stronger of a cycle cause Im getting bored with the gaines on methyls.

I did manage to find some of the info in the transdermal section, its odd though because it seems the search function doesnt find key words well. I ended up just backtracking to 2003 and before threads and looked for key words. Long story short I did find the Superone+ threads. Since methyls were probably not around then I wonder which is going to be better.

I am curious to see how my body will react to 400mgs of 4ad. I may start out with 200mgs of 1t and 400 mgs of 4ad and adjust from there. I keep hearing the 4ad is usually the one people cut back on, but from the posts I read tonight its almost always run at twice the dose of 1t.

 

[Stavross]

Try looking for S1+ as the dermabolics one was called that.

 

[Strategic]

Well I just started the superdrol this week, so I have about three more to go on the superdrol and I will begin the 1t/4ad on Saturday. Hopefully the Superone+ is a bit stronger of a cycle cause Im getting bored with the gaines on methyls.

I did manage to find some of the info in the transdermal section, its odd though because it seems the search function doesnt find key words well. I ended up just backtracking to 2003 and before threads and looked for key words. Long story short I did find the Superone+ threads. Since methyls were probably not around then I wonder which is going to be better.

I am curious to see how my body will react to 400mgs of 4ad. I may start out with 200mgs of 1t and 400 mgs of 4ad and adjust from there. I keep hearing the 4ad is usually the one people cut back on, but from the posts I read tonight its almost always run at twice the dose of 1t.

IMO, 1t/4ad is a much more enjoyable cycle than any of the new age methyls. The gains might come more gradually, but they are a lot easier to retain and you dont need to worry about nasty sides.

 

[BigVrunga]

Never tried any of these new orals, but I can attest that 1T/4AD is one hell of a stack...

 

[Chicken]

Cool Im getting excited! It starts tommorow

 

[TripDog]

back in the day twinlab had "andro fuel" it was 1 test,1 ad,and 4 ad.....god i wish i stocked up on that one!!!!

 

[B5150]

As was mentioned above, transdermal 1T/4AD was and still is very effective. Unlike oral steroids it does not elevate exogenous levels as quickly therefore it does take up to a week or more to feel it. This does not mean that it is innefective until then, just that your levels have not reached superphysiological levels that give you the "on" feeling. Aside from a possibility for some lethargy from the 1Test there is the possibility of some skin irritation from the transdermal carrier and of course the 1test is quite an irritant to the skin as well as eyes and other areas. I suggest latex gloves when applying. It does not wash of your hands very well.

The usual premade combo (ONE+, SuperONE) dose was around a 2:3 ratio of 1T/4AD. Meaning 200mg/300mg, 300mg/450mg, 400mg/600mg. When homebrewed in seperate bottles you are able to customize your application and dose ratio. Someone who is concerned with water retention from aromatization of 4AD may want to run the 4AD at a lower dose or at about a 50:50 ratio of 1T/4AD. If you know this for sure I advise starting at about that dose. If you experience unwanted sides of bloat or water retention you can lower it. If you experience unwanted sides of lethargy from the 1T you can raise it to offset the lethargy. Also depending upon your goals you may want more or less 4AD. Remember that you will become shut down by the 1T reducing your endogenous test to lower then normal levels. This produces unwanted sides like lethargy, erectile dysfunction, poor mood, etc. So by using the 4AD (precursor of test) you elevate your levels just enough to get that feel good sense of well being that makes for a nice and pleasant cycle.

 

[Stavross]

Great post B5150.

thanks for the info. reps to you.

 

[Chicken]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I am pretty confident in this cycle now. I have done a ton of research, and your replies have also been most usefull. I started it last night and I swear I could feel it within a couple of minutes. I am sure it was a placebo effect but still fun either way.

I will keep an update going on progress here. Im not one for logs but progress I can do.

I look foward to your responses as I progress,

Chicken

 

[Rodja]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I am pretty confident in this cycle now. I have done a ton of research, and your replies have also been most usefull. I started it last night and I swear I could feel it within a couple of minutes. I am sure it was a placebo effect but still fun either way.

I will keep an update going on progress here. Im not one for logs but progress I can do.

I look foward to your responses as I progress,

Chicken

You will feel the burn of the 1T within minutes, but results will kick in around day 7 or so. I have run this stack before and can honestly say that it is the best stack anyone can run (not including injectables).

 

[neoborn]

How harsh is this stack? Can someone pm me what I would need ( guidance ) and where to get it?

This intrigues me.

 

[BigVrunga]

How harsh is this stack? Can someone pm me what I would need ( guidance ) and where to get it?

This intrigues me.

The biggest side effects from this stack would be high BP, lethargy toward the 4th week, and possibly hair loss if you're prone to it.

I remember some folks posting post-cycle bloodwork on the 1Test/4AD stack and liver/lipid values looked pretty clean.

Unfortunately, these products were made illegal in the US after the 1st PH ban and discussing sources for them would be against board rules.

BV

 

[neoborn]

The biggest side effects from this stack would be high BP, lethargy toward the 4th week, and possibly hair loss if you're prone to it.

I remember some folks posting post-cycle bloodwork on the 1Test/4AD stack and liver/lipid values looked pretty clean.

Unfortunately, these products were made illegal in the US after the 1st PH ban and discussing sources for them would be against board rules.

BV

Ok then how about someone send me a pm but not with any sources know what I mean

 

[BigVrunga]

Ok then how about someone send me a pm but not with any sources know what I mean

Again, discussing sources of illegal products through PM's or forum posts is against board policy. Please read the rules!

BV

 

[RisingAgainst]

Didn't SciFit make a similar product guys??

 

[neoborn]

Again, discussing sources of illegal products through PM's or forum posts is against board policy. Please read the rules!

BV

Oh ok ok ok fine... What are the names of the current working products?

 

[B5150]

There are no current products that are available retail. The actives are 1-Test and 4AD in Penetrate transdermal solution. The discussion of the acquisition of such actives is not acceptable on the AM forums.

 

[jerz912]

Didn't SciFit make a similar product guys??

Yes they did, 1 Test Stack!!!

 

[BigVrunga]

There are no current products that are available retail. The actives are 1-Test and 4AD in Penetrate transdermal solution. The discussion of the acquisition of such actives is not acceptable on the AM forums.

There does seem to be a company claiming to produce a legal product that converts into 1-testosterone:

http://www.affordablesupplements.com/1-androsterone.asp

Its active prohormone is something called 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one which looks like its some kind of DHEA derivative. These products are discussed here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/53617-4-ad-ams.html

BV

 

[Chicken]

Jerz is that oral alkylated?

 

[Chicken]

Well I am in day 3 of this cycle and so far so good. No apparent skin irritation, sweating a bit more. Weight seems to be holding steady at 205 (I am actually trying to cut or lean bulk, trust me I dont need anymore body fat). Superdrol is making me a little irrational at times, mostly when lifting. I am looking foward to day 7, hopefully the 1t stack will kick in then.

 

[B5150]

Yes they did, 1 Test Stack!!!

OK. But you guys do realize how inefficient oral consumption of those is. Chicken is using 1Test (non converting active 1Test) and 4AD in a transdermal. It's basically a homebrew of what was AvantLabs ONE+ and SuperONE. There was also a T-Gel version but I can't recall the names.

 

[B5150]

Well I am in day 3 of this cycle and so far so good. No apparent skin irritation, sweating a bit more. Weight seems to be holding steady at 205 (I am actually trying to cut or lean bulk, trust me I dont need anymore body fat). Superdrol is making me a little irrational at times, mostly when lifting. I am looking foward to day 7, hopefully the 1t stack will kick in then.

Give it a few days. All is good

Be sure to rotate applications as best as possible as well as using a lufa scrub in the show prior to applications

 

[BigVrunga]

There was also a T-Gel version but I can't recall the names.

Let's not forget the original BDC T1 and T1Pro!! :box:

 

[B5150]

Let's not forget the original BDC T1 and T1Pro!! :box:

Bingo!

 

[neoborn]

There are no current products that are available retail. The actives are 1-Test and 4AD in Penetrate transdermal solution. The discussion of the acquisition of such actives is not acceptable on the AM forums.

So you guys are discussing / using a product that is not legally available but aren't allowed to talk about it:blink: :wtf:

 

[BigVrunga]

So you guys are discussing / using a product that is not legally available but aren't allowed to talk about it

You can discuss a product all you want - you cant discuss SOURCES for the product if it is illegal. Did you read the rules yet? :nono:

:stick:

BV

 

[B5150]

So you guys are discussing / using a product that is not legally available but aren't allowed to talk about it:blink: :wtf:

You misunderstood or there may be miscommunication. Your statement:

Can someone pm me what I would need ( guidance ) and where to get it?

The rules state:

Remember: Talking about steroid/illegal drug use on an internet forum is perfectly legal and the discussion aspect will NOT change

. Talking about buying and/or selling steroids/illegal substances on an internet forum is illegal!

You can talk all day about what illegal anabolics you use. You cannot discuss sourcing illegal anabolics. Just because it can be sourced at a "retail site" does not make it legal. It may be a technicality of the law but it is a technicality that this board errors on the side of caution by restriction of such.

Chicken has a 1T/4AD transdermal stack that he is using. Where he got it or where you can get the same is not up for discussion.

 

[worm]

You can still buy the dermal carrier that s1+ came in. Made by Dermibolics. I think they bought the rights from Avant Labs. But you have to have the actives to mix in of course.

 

[Chicken]

Yeah I used "penetrate" from nutraplanet as the carrier. It is more liquidy than previous brands so I hear, but it absorbs great. It takes me about 1 minute per compound to apply, hence no huge oily mess to rub in.

Props to nutraplanet!

 

[neoborn]

You misunderstood or there may be miscommunication. Your statement:The rules state:You can talk all day about what illegal anabolics you use. You cannot discuss sourcing illegal anabolics. Just because it can be sourced at a "retail site" does not make it legal. It may be a technicality of the law but it is a technicality that this board errors on the side of caution by restriction of such.

Chicken has a 1T/4AD transdermal stack that he is using. Where he got it or where you can get the same is not up for discussion.

I didn't know it was illegal that's all. You guys discuss everything like I can buy it at the corner store.

 

[jerz912]

OK. But you guys do realize how inefficient oral consumption of those is. Chicken is using 1Test (non converting active 1Test) and 4AD in a transdermal. It's basically a homebrew of what was AvantLabs ONE+ and SuperONE. There was also a T-Gel version but I can't recall the names.

SCI FIT 1 TEST STACK =

1 T Ether(17beta-Hydroxandrost-1-ene-3-one Ether) 100mg
1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione 100mg
5-Alpha-Androstane3,17 Beta Diol 100mg
4-Androstenediol 100mg
3,6,17-Androstenetrione 100mg

Now which ones are orally inefficient?? I know I heard the 4-Androstenediol is orally inefficient right?

 

[B5150]

1 T Ether(17beta-Hydroxandrost-1-ene-3-one Ether) 100mg

About 41.2% absorption active = 41.2mg active

1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione 100mg

About 10% bioavailability and 6% target conversion = .6mg active

5-Alpha-Androstane3,17 Beta Diol 100mg

About 10% bioavailability and .15% (read as .15 of 1%) target conversion = .015mg active

4-Androstenediol 100mg

About 10% bioavailability and 16% target conversion = 1.6mg active

3,6,17-Androstenetrione 100mg

This is not an anabolic but a suicide inhibitor of aromatase - AKA:6-OXO.

The 1T Ether is questionable because the true MN 1T Ether Gels are in sesame oil. Doesn't seem like the case with this product making it about 7.5% absorption = 7.5mg active The Androstenetrione really should not be in there.

So 100mg x 4 steroids (not counting 6OXO) = 400mg = 9.715mg active after absorption and conversion.

This product is the example of the kitchen sink approach and is rather ineffective and worthless IMO. Depending upon the activity of your placebo conversion you might just get huge from it.

 

[BigVrunga]

This product is the example of the kitchen sink approach and is rather ineffective and worthless IMO. Depending upon the activity of your placebo conversion you might just get huge from it.

LOL - the 'placebo conversion'...a factor most often ignored when calculating the efficacy of supplements

BV

 

[jerz912]

About 41.2% absorption active = 41.2mg active
About 10% bioavailability and 6% target conversion = .6mg active
About 10% bioavailability and .15% (read as .15 of 1%) target conversion = .015mg active
About 10% bioavailability and 16% target conversion = 1.6mg active
This is not an anabolic but a suicide inhibitor of aromatase - AKA:6-OXO.

The 1T Ether is questionable because the true MN 1T Ether Gels are in sesame oil. Doesn't seem like the case with this product making it about 7.5% absorption = 7.5mg active The Androstenetrione really should not be in there.

So 100mg x 4 steroids (not counting 6OXO) = 400mg = 9.715mg active after absorption and conversion.

This product is the example of the kitchen sink approach and is rather ineffective and worthless IMO. Depending upon the activity of your placebo conversion you might just get huge from it.

What is placebo conversion?? And if you say this product is worthless why did I feel like a beast on it??

 

[B5150]

Consider the data of the compounds that are present in that stack and their active dose. 9.715mg x 7 days = 68mg/week active after absorption and conversion. Even if you 4x dosed it would 272mg/week. Consider that at your age you endogenous testosterone production far far exceeds what you will atain by taking this product. The sad part is that this is just enough to inhibit you but not produce any supraphysiological levels of androgens in your system.

pla·ce·bo
a. a substance having no pharmacological effect but given merely to satisfy a patient who supposes it to be a medicine.

Note: Those receiving a placebo often get better, a phenomenon known as the placebo effect.

So consider that you take something that you believe is going to make you huge. You eat like you want to be huge. You train like you want to be huge. You may have gotten huge. But the data suggests that the active ingredients after absorption and conversion are less than your natural endogenous levels and therefore insignificant as a physiological contributor to your anecdotal results.

The reality of it is that you believe that this stuff gives you an edge so you train like you have an edge and you assume the disposition of someone who does. This is called a placebo.

We all train harder when we are on. We all eat better when we are on. We all expect better results when we are on.

The Placebo Conversion™ is when someone takes a worthless and ineffective compound and converts it into positive disciplines, routines and habits that produce the anticipated results.

The results would have been achieved had they been sugar pills. You are 21. If you can't grow than there is something wrong.

The Placebo Conversion™ is the foundation of the entire supplement industry. Welcome to the real world.

 

[jerz912]

Consider the data of the compounds that are present in that stack and their active dose. 9.715mg x 7 days = 68mg/week active after absorption and conversion. Even if you 4x dosed it would 272mg/week. Consider that at your age you endogenous testosterone production far far exceeds what you will atain by taking this product. The sad part is that this is just enough to inhibit you but not produce any supraphysiological levels of androgens in your system.



So consider that you take something that you believe is going to make you huge. You eat like you want to be huge. You train like you want to be huge. You may have gotten huge. But the data suggests that the active ingredients after absorption and conversion are less than your natural endogenous levels and therefore insignificant as a physiological contributor to your anecdotal results.

The reality of it is that you believe that this stuff gives you an edge so you train like you have an edge and you assume the disposition of someone who does. This is called a placebo.

We all train harder when we are on. We all eat better when we are on. We all expect better results when we are on.

The Placebo Conversion™ is when someone takes a worthless and ineffective compound and converts it into positive disciplines, routines and habits that produce the anticipated results.

The results would have been achieved had they been sugar pills. You are 21. If you can't grow than there is something wrong.

The Placebo Conversion™ is the foundation of the entire supplement industry. Welcome to the real world.

I never said I couldn't grow, I'm growing just fine!!!!!! But I find this hard to believe, I blew up from this stuff, and I was young and didn't have a good diet set like I do now!!

 

[B5150]

I never said I couldn't grow, I'm growing just fine!!!!!! But I find this hard to believe, I blew up from this stuff, and I was young and didn't have a good diet set like I do now!!

Its called newbie gains. Your test levels are at their highest they will be in your lifetime. Anything that resembles a training split will be effective.

I have no problem with you using this stuff and you believing it really did something for you. Whatever.

Good luck

 

[Strategic]

Yeah I used "penetrate" from nutraplanet as the carrier. It is more liquidy than previous brands so I hear, but it absorbs great. It takes me about 1 minute per compound to apply, hence no huge oily mess to rub in.

Props to nutraplanet!

I really wish I’d started using penetrate a long time ago. I’ve always used dermabolics matrix because that’s what I’m familiar with, but the applications are annoying because it does leave a big oily residue and takes forever to dry. Actually, even after 2 hours you can still see the film covering your skin. I’m considering ordering a bottle of penetrate and mixing a new solution for the rest of my cycle.

 

[Strategic]

About 41.2% absorption active = 41.2mg active
About 10% bioavailability and 6% target conversion = .6mg active
About 10% bioavailability and .15% (read as .15 of 1%) target conversion = .015mg active
About 10% bioavailability and 16% target conversion = 1.6mg active
This is not an anabolic but a suicide inhibitor of aromatase - AKA:6-OXO.

The 1T Ether is questionable because the true MN 1T Ether Gels are in sesame oil. Doesn't seem like the case with this product making it about 7.5% absorption = 7.5mg active The Androstenetrione really should not be in there.

So 100mg x 4 steroids (not counting 6OXO) = 400mg = 9.715mg active after absorption and conversion.

This product is the example of the kitchen sink approach and is rather ineffective and worthless IMO. Depending upon the activity of your placebo conversion you might just get huge from it.

What brands of 1t ether gels were actually effective? I never used any oral 1t, but I have used ergos original 1AD a number of times and always had great results. For some reason I respond really well to the precursor. I get nearly the same results from 1AD orals (at a higher dose) as I do from 1-test transdermal.

 

[jerz912]

Its called newbie gains. Your test levels are at their highest they will be in your lifetime. Anything that resembles a training split will be effective.

I have no problem with you using this stuff and you believing it really did something for you. Whatever.

Good luck

Newbie gains? Believing it worked for me? I take that as an insult!!

 

[jerz912]

Newbie gains? Believing it worked for me? I take that as an insult!!

Ah forget it, I can't prove you wrong!! But don't tell me something didn't work when it did for me, I used to be a skiny ****, and when I took that **** I blew up!! But whatever!

 

[B5150]

Newbie gains? Believing it worked for me? I take that as an insult!!

I'm done wasting time reasoning with you. You know better. Believe what you want. Take it how you want. Good luck.

 

[BigVrunga]

Ah forget it, I can't prove you wrong!! But don't tell me something didn't work when it did for me, I used to be a skiny ****, and when I took that **** I blew up!! But whatever!

He's right, jerz912. Congrats on the success, and you look great in your pic - no one is arguing that point. But you havent been in the 'bodybuilding world' or training long enough to see through the hype I dont think.

Just spend some time going through the backlogs of this site - you'll find tons of 'the next big thing' supps that made people 'huge!!' but slowly faded away as the hype surrounding them died down and results for their users, who werent playing into that hype, died down as well.

The placebo effect is a solid factor in how your body will respond to certain stimulus. In short, if you honestly believe you're gonna get huge on the next big supp - you're going to train harder, eat better, etc to try and maximize those gains. Listen to any of the old pros on how big the 'mind-muscle connection' is on seeing positive results...

And just look you're growing! But what's it from - the extra calories + time in the gym - or that $50 bottle with the fancy label?

BV

 

[Chicken]

Day 5: Interesting enough I seem to have more motivation around the house. It could just be Im tired of looking around at a disorganized clusterf*ck too.

Seriously though I am finding I need to drink more and more water by the day. I am drinking about a gallon a day now but I question whether I am still dehydrated. I got back pumps real bad last night while doing squats, I assume the superdrol is to blame for this. Strength is up a bit, I was able to increase incline bench by about 15 pounds this week.

My weight, not that its really important is steady at 208-(glycogen stores added 2.5 weeks ago) = 204, down a pound from last week. I am attempting to lean out while maintaining lean mass. I am not seeing huge results at this point but as long as my strength increases and my weight stays steady I assume Im leaning out. I am tempted to eat tuna 6 times a day and forego carbs all together for a couple of weeks, but I think the residual effect of that could be worse.

Jerz912: B5150 is correct, hence the reason I asked if your suppliment is alkylated. There is no way you are getting an effective dosage of PH's orally without them being methylated.

 

[WebDesigner]

I didn't know it was illegal that's all. You guys discuss everything like I can buy it at the corner store.

neo if you search for it you can still find it, but it will be somewhat expensive...

 

[Chicken]

neo if you search for it you can still find it, but it will be somewhat expensive...

Probably worth it though as its less toxic in my opinion

 

[BigVrunga]

Probably worth it though as its less toxic in my opinion

Id take 1test any day over most of the newer hormonal products...