Havoc vs. Epistane?

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    Havoc vs. Epistane?


    Is epistane still the same in the new batch as when it was originally released? Is havoc definitely just as effective/ the same? I know this seems kind of repetitive, but I hate to waste money.

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    I headbutted yet another dog.
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    Who built Stonehenge?

    Sorry, but seriously, you should already know that there are never going to be definite exact undisputed answers to your question(s)? But if you followed the threads, you should also know that both products worked well for a large number of people, so pick whichever one you feel more comfortable with, most likely you will get favorable results regardless of which one you choose.
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    well, ibe is sending me a free bottle because the one i purchased turned out to be the same as havoc, and the real epistane is suppose to be more pure. ibe also told me to go ahead and keep the bottle i bought and use it. so i doubt ibe would give away 200 bottles if their product wasnt infact more pure then havoc. if your goal is gyno reductioni would stick with epistane, if your goal is simply gains then ide say they are equel.
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    I purchased EPI. I will log my results after I get some baseline blood tests. I will be dosing only 30 mgs EPI/day for 30 days. A pretty straightforward cycle and one that can be interpreted fairly easily. I have a blood test scheduled on June 1st which is a Friday. I will post the results and will be starting with 10 mg. of EPI on Sunday, June 3rd. I will progress to 30 mgs and continue at that dosage until the pills are gone. Simply, Simple. My cycle support will consist of ~500 mg. Milk Thistle x 2, NAC at ~700 mg. x 2, and ALA at ~ 400 mg. x 2. I've also purchased Thermolife's LiverLonger to take for the 30 days I'm on Epistane. Cissus will be used throughout the cycle (bulk from NP.) I will discontinue the bulk cissus post cycle and switch to a more concentrated dosage of Primaforce Cissus Rx for the next 30 days. During this time, I will add 6 grams of Creatine MONO,, 25 grams of BCAA's (w/o) days only, 6 grams Citrulline Malate (Bulk), Retain for 30 days at 3 caps/day, Rebound Reloaded for 1 month, slightly titrating down, and Activate at 4 caps/day for 1 month. In addition to these supplements, I will be using 20 mg. of Tamoxifen for 20 days with a further 10 mgs for 6 additional days. If people don't think that 35 year olds can make much progress in a simple 4-8 week program, then prepare to be astonished. Not just astonished, absolutely amazed. This will be some crazy stuff. I will promise you absolutely honest results, with no illegal stimulants or anabolics used. You must subscribe to this! The only question I have is, " How do I post my results." Stay tuned. June 3rd-4th will be your first update and from there progress results daily! I will be following a 5x5 schedule with a personal touch that suits me. I will explain all details as I log. Get ready for an easy 15 pounds. These receptors haven't been touched in years!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    I headbutted yet another dog.
    Wow this question gets asked everywhere. Its almost as popular as a teen asking about steroids. Pick up some Methyl-E by EST its a really good company.
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    I heard Yams are way more anabolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    I heard Yams are way more anabolic.
    Yes very true the most anabolic of all starches is what I heard lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    I heard Yams are way more anabolic.
    Only when used as suppositories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz View Post
    Only when used as suppositories.
    Naturally.
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    And they taste great too...err...
    RcB Since 09-06-2011 20:55 EST, Post 49
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    hmm
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    sorry for bringing this old thread to live, but I think it's interesting when someone found that at least a batch of IBE's epi doesn't contain epistane....
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...eroid-ibe.html

    Quote Originally Posted by charger71 View Post
    well, ibe is sending me a free bottle because the one i purchased turned out to be the same as havoc, and the real epistane is suppose to be more pure. ibe also told me to go ahead and keep the bottle i bought and use it. so i doubt ibe would give away 200 bottles if their product wasnt infact more pure then havoc. if your goal is gyno reductioni would stick with epistane, if your goal is simply gains then ide say they are equel.
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    Dang, that makes me a little worried, wonder IBE is dealing with this.
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    i have 4 bottles of epi at home that is not cool, but if it works it works. that mite explains some sides i had 2 epi cycles ago
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngli View Post
    Dang, that makes me a little worried, wonder IBE is dealing with this.
    oh, the way their representives dealing with this in other forum pissed me off.

    In BB forum, the guy firstly said the paper seems fake; after people pointed out the paper is surely not fake, he said the thread beginner made it like a fake. And then he was asking if there is any way to ban the paper from publishing (WTF?)

    In another forum, IBE representive claimed that the paper is low quality, because in the abstract, the author said: the 2a, 3a compound is claimed as the only ingredient in epistane, however we found 2b, 3b compound and DMT in it.
    IBE guy soon concludes: it's because their product contains 98% of 2a, 3a stuff, <2% 2b, 3b isomer, and it's impossible to have 100% pure compound. DMT is generated in testing process. IBE guy then attacked the journal and the authors lacking knowledge and frighten people.
    However, if he read the full article he shouldn't have said this. In the full article, the authors are basically saying, compound in epistane is 2b, 3b one, not the 2a, 3a one which IBE claimed. There is no such a thing of 98% 2% ratio if you read the paper. (the authors did admit that they use an older information as standard, so further confirmation would be needed)
    I still can't believe that IBE's representive attacked the credibility of a scientific journal without even read the full article (WTF?)

    OK, for balance report, it's IBE's recent statement in BB forum:
    " This issue has already been addressed on many occassions since this article was first released. The lab we use is not some common lab such as RTP or others used by many companies in this industry. The lab we use, testifies and tests for FDA and DEA, so basically our chemist is the same chemist that would be called upon to testify in the court of law in this matter and our compound tests correctly each time, I don't care what this Japanese lab and journal states on the matter. Our chemist stated that this is the result of their faulty/poor prep work and the degradation of heat in this study conducted. Even PA commented on this article stating the obvious flaws in thier study and how it was conducted enough said "

    buy it or not, up to you readers
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    i have used ibe products for years and they always work (except for x-force) it would be cool to know what i am takeing but with all the stuff i have payed for that did not work its nice to find something that actually works.
  

  
 

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