Is this a good pro hormone
- 04-20-2007, 06:38 PM
- 04-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Probably a good idea to look into somehing before buying it.
- 04-21-2007, 04:14 PM
well obviously i have looked into it
its contains the androgens
19-Nor 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - converts into nor-testosterone in the liver.
4-Androstene 3,17 Diol - (4-AD) is metabolized in the liver to become testosterone via a different enzymatic pathway than the other pro hormones.
4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - Causes between a 211% and 237% increase in serum testosterone levels.
so im pretty sure its good
i just couldnt really find any reviews on it
04-21-2007, 04:31 PM
What I'm wondering is if promatrix products are legit.
04-21-2007, 04:43 PM
im pretty sure they are
i got it from a legit store downtown in my city
and they have their own site
that looks pretty professional
04-21-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm just a bit puzzled because it looks like they sell to the US. And 4-AD and 19-Nor are not legal in the US. This is what has me questioning their legitimacy.
But if you get any success from it, please be sure to let us know. 4-AD and 19-nor sounds like a pretty decent stack (and should have similar effect as a test/deca stack, since they are PH's for both respective steroidal hormones).
04-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Unless that is mega dosed it is worthless. They both have poor bioavailability and then conversion reduces it to nothing really. It may unfortunately slightly inhibit you, or at least aramatize, and disturb your system.
04-22-2007, 02:17 AM
i dont know there is only 100 mg of each in each pill
and i was thinking of taking 2 before my workout
and maybe 1 0r 2 later in the day
i bought it because i believe 4 ad is a strong androgen
so i dont think i will have a problem with aromatization even tho 1 of the androgens is moderatly estrogenic
i am think of taking diindolymethane(dim)
which balance out estrogen making
the bad estrogen low
and the good estrogen high because i believe small amounts of estrogen actually are moderatly anabolic as well
i might take another estrogen blocker as well but i dont know
could you guys give me some feedback please
04-22-2007, 02:36 AM
In defense of Promatrix, I've used their M1T (10mg caps with 100mg 4ad in them) along with their 250mg 4ad caps, and they worked very well for me. The Decaplex, however, seems to be highly underdosed to do much, but honestly, i have not tried it, so give it a try and see what happens. Promatrix = legit in my book.
04-22-2007, 02:38 AM
ya man thats what i think
it has 100 mg in each pill of each androgen
so do you think it would be alright to take about 6 pills a day
so it will be 600mg of
19-Nor 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione
4-Androstene 3,17 Dione
do you think this is a good idea
04-22-2007, 08:16 AM
Sounds a little better. 4-AD has terrible oral bioavailablity. A lot of times people will take transdermally at that high of a dosage.
04-22-2007, 09:12 AM
Androstenedione (4-androsten-3, 17-dione) - 5.61 % conversion to the target hormone testosterone.
19-Norandrostenedione (19-Nor-4-androsten-3,17-dione) - 5.61 % conversion to the target hormone 19Nortestosterone (nandrolone).
That means 5.6% of it converts to the target hormone AFTER bioavailability which is less than 10% for either and more like 5%
So lets do the math:
Androstenedione @ 300mg/d x 10% oral active = 30mg absorbed x 5% conversion = 1.5mg/d testosterone x 7/d = 10.5mg/w testosterone
19-Norandrostenedione @ 300mg/d x 10% oral active = 30mg absorbed x 5% conversion = 1.5mg/d nandrolone x 7/d = 10.5mg/w nandrolone
So even combined you have a total of 21mg/w of exogenous hormone. There is more conversion to estrogen that to test and nandrolone
"When androstenedione capsules first hit the market in 1996, hopes were high that the first legal product for massively elevated testosterone levels (and similarly the first true replacement for illegal steroids) had been uncovered. It did not take long, however, for athletes to realize that we did not quite have what we thought we did. "Andro" caps just didn't work the way we were expecting them to. Studies eventually showed us what was happening with this supplement, demonstrating that large doses would be needed for even the slightest elevations in blood testosterone levels. And even then our "legal testosterone elevator" turns out to increase estrogen levels better that the target hormone of our interest. Initial failings with androstenedione, at least as an increaser of serum testosterone, were repeated with its lauded successor androstenediol. Again, relatively high oral doses of this prohormone were shown to cause little or no elevations in blood testosterone." By: William Llewellyn
Your wasting your time with this.
04-22-2007, 09:35 AM
guess that puts this to bed! dam!Originally Posted by B5150
you forget to say "the word of the lord"
04-22-2007, 09:35 AM
04-22-2007, 09:36 AM
04-22-2007, 09:41 AM
4AD @ 1000mg x 10% bioavailability = 100mg x 5% conversion = 5mg testosterone x 7/d = 35mg/w. That is certainly not elevated and will likely only inhibit you. Not to mention all of that aromatization to estrogen.
The only way that even makes 4AD worth using is if you use it transdermally. Even then, you ain't getting much test.
4AD @ 1000mg x 25% TD absorption = 250mg x 5% conversion = 12.5mg testosterone x 7/d = 87.5mg/w.
There are some intrinsic properties to 4AD besides testosterone conversion, but there benefit is questionable.
04-22-2007, 09:56 AM
4-AD has a 15% conversion rate tho doesn't it? And andro 5%?
edit: also unlike andro, 4-AD can't directly aromatise to estrone.
04-22-2007, 10:02 AM
Yeah, diol is ~15% and dione is ~5%
Yes, diol does not directly aromatize
04-22-2007, 10:23 AM
I love when the facts are presented so clearly; thank you for presenting this. I personally use 4ad with M1T to simply combat side effects. Alone, however, I doubt 4ad would ever be worth taking, especially orally which is what I have available to me (Promatrix 4ad caps (250mg)).
04-22-2007, 01:27 PM
hey anabolicloc, what is your post cycle therapy?
04-22-2007, 01:36 PM
i do have the 4 diol in this product which has 15.76% converson
and the dione
and the 19 nor
and i will be taking 6 pills a day
so i will be taking 600 mg of each androgen
and during cycle i will be using diindolymethane(dim)
which makes bad estrogen low
and good estrogen high
and for pct i will be running
timorefene citrate and the nha stack including retain!!!1
04-22-2007, 01:44 PM
Your going to use this stuff, so really whats the point of discussing the matter further. Good luck.
04-22-2007, 01:45 PM
i might just take it back tho
and use epistane though
because i dont want to be taking this
if i get more aromatization
then rasing of my test levels
because this coule mean negative sde effects
so doyou think 6 pills a day will be effective at all?
04-22-2007, 01:55 PM
04-22-2007, 01:58 PM
i am 18
but i already know alot about it
how to protect the liver
how to pct effectivily
about hpta shutdown
like i wouldnt do anything withotu knowing everything about it
04-22-2007, 02:16 PM
Let me explain this the best I can.
600mg of 19-Nor 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - converts into 3mgs of nandrolone. 3mg/d x 7/d = 21mg of active nandrolone per week.
600mg of 4-Androstene 3,17 Diol - converts into 9mgs of testosterone. 9mg/d x 7/d = 63mg of active testosterone per week.
600mg of 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - converts into 3mgs of testosterone. 3mg/d x 7/d = 21mg of active testosterone per week.
Daily combine active exogenous androgen:
3mg + 9mg + 3mg = 15mg/d
15mg/d x 7d = 105mg/w or
21mg/w + 63mg/w + 21mg/w = 105mg
The levels of androgen that you are introducing into your body are lower than the levels of any man, especially and 18 year old.
Two things; you really have a lot to learn and anabolic hormone discussion on this board is for those 21 and older. Please review the board rule before posting again.
Similar Forum Threads
- By anabolicloc in forum Supplement LogsReplies: 0Last Post: 04-20-2007, 06:38 PM
- By IHateGymMorons in forum AnabolicsReplies: 1Last Post: 07-11-2004, 08:48 PM
- By BigRich in forum Exercise ScienceReplies: 9Last Post: 06-03-2004, 02:04 AM
- By Jeffy-P in forum SupplementsReplies: 18Last Post: 03-10-2004, 09:32 PM
- By inertia in forum SupplementsReplies: 2Last Post: 03-25-2003, 03:17 PM