Is this a good pro hormone

[anabolicloc]

I just purchased a product called
deca-plex 100 by promatrix
i am wondering if this product is good
could anybody give me some feedback?

[Stavross]

Probably a good idea to look into somehing before buying it.

[anabolicloc]

well obviously i have looked into it
its contains the androgens

19-Nor 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - converts into nor-testosterone in the liver.

4-Androstene 3,17 Diol - (4-AD) is metabolized in the liver to become testosterone via a different enzymatic pathway than the other pro hormones.

4-Androstene 3,17 Dione - Causes between a 211% and 237% increase in serum testosterone levels.

so im pretty sure its good
i just couldnt really find any reviews on it

[thesinner]

What I'm wondering is if promatrix products are legit.

[anabolicloc]

im pretty sure they are
i got it from a legit store downtown in my city
and they have their own site
that looks pretty professional

[thesinner]

im pretty sure they are
i got it from a legit store downtown in my city
and they have their own site
that looks pretty professional

I dunno, it kinda reminds me of the zoelabs websites, and that's what had me questioning it.

I'm just a bit puzzled because it looks like they sell to the US. And 4-AD and 19-Nor are not legal in the US. This is what has me questioning their legitimacy.

But if you get any success from it, please be sure to let us know. 4-AD and 19-nor sounds like a pretty decent stack (and should have similar effect as a test/deca stack, since they are PH's for both respective steroidal hormones).

[David Dunn]

Unless that is mega dosed it is worthless. They both have poor bioavailability and then conversion reduces it to nothing really. It may unfortunately slightly inhibit you, or at least aramatize, and disturb your system.

[anabolicloc]

ya man
i dont know there is only 100 mg of each in each pill
and i was thinking of taking 2 before my workout
and maybe 1 0r 2 later in the day
i bought it because i believe 4 ad is a strong androgen
so i dont think i will have a problem with aromatization even tho 1 of the androgens is moderatly estrogenic
i am think of taking diindolymethane(dim)
which balance out estrogen making
the bad estrogen low
and the good estrogen high because i believe small amounts of estrogen actually are moderatly anabolic as well
i might take another estrogen blocker as well but i dont know

could you guys give me some feedback please

[SupraLover]

In defense of Promatrix, I've used their M1T (10mg caps with 100mg 4ad in them) along with their 250mg 4ad caps, and they worked very well for me. The Decaplex, however, seems to be highly underdosed to do much, but honestly, i have not tried it, so give it a try and see what happens. Promatrix = legit in my book.

[anabolicloc]

ya man thats what i think
it has 100 mg in each pill of each androgen
so do you think it would be alright to take about 6 pills a day
so it will be 600mg of
4ad
19-Nor 4-Androstene 3,17 Dione
and
4-Androstene 3,17 Dione

do you think this is a good idea

[thesinner]

Sounds a little better. 4-AD has terrible oral bioavailablity. A lot of times people will take transdermally at that high of a dosage.

[David Dunn]

Androstenedione (4-androsten-3, 17-dione) - 5.61 % conversion to the target hormone testosterone.

19-Norandrostenedione (19-Nor-4-androsten-3,17-dione) - 5.61 % conversion to the target hormone 19Nortestosterone (nandrolone).

That means 5.6% of it converts to the target hormone AFTER bioavailability which is less than 10% for either and more like 5%

So lets do the math:

Androstenedione @ 300mg/d x 10% oral active = 30mg absorbed x 5% conversion = 1.5mg/d testosterone x 7/d = 10.5mg/w testosterone

19-Norandrostenedione @ 300mg/d x 10% oral active = 30mg absorbed x 5% conversion = 1.5mg/d nandrolone x 7/d = 10.5mg/w nandrolone

So even combined you have a total of 21mg/w of exogenous hormone. There is more conversion to estrogen that to test and nandrolone

"When androstenedione capsules first hit the market in 1996, hopes were high that the first legal product for massively elevated testosterone levels (and similarly the first true replacement for illegal steroids) had been uncovered. It did not take long, however, for athletes to realize that we did not quite have what we thought we did. "Andro" caps just didn't work the way we were expecting them to. Studies eventually showed us what was happening with this supplement, demonstrating that large doses would be needed for even the slightest elevations in blood testosterone levels. And even then our "legal testosterone elevator" turns out to increase estrogen levels better that the target hormone of our interest. Initial failings with androstenedione, at least as an increaser of serum testosterone, were repeated with its lauded successor androstenediol. Again, relatively high oral doses of this prohormone were shown to cause little or no elevations in blood testosterone." By: William Llewellyn

Your wasting your time with this.

[Vicarious]

Your wasting your time with this.

guess that puts this to bed! dam!

you forget to say "the word of the lord"

[Sonicology]

"Initial failings with androstenedione, at least as an increaser of serum testosterone, were repeated with its lauded successor androstenediol. Again, relatively high oral doses of this prohormone were shown to cause little or no elevations in blood testosterone."

So this is saying that high doses of 4-AD cause no elevation in test? That can't be right can it?

[volusia40]

I dunno, it kinda reminds me of the zoelabs websites, and that's what had me questioning it.

I'm just a bit puzzled because it looks like they sell to the US. And 4-AD and 19-Nor are not legal in the US. This is what has me questioning their legitimacy.

But if you get any success from it, please be sure to let us know. 4-AD and 19-nor sounds like a pretty decent stack (and should have similar effect as a test/deca stack, since they are PH's for both respective steroidal hormones).

Yeah, I don't get it either. 4-ad and 19-nor were banned in 2005. I would be highly skeptical of what's actually in these products. If anyone is up on Promatrix please comment.

[David Dunn]

So this is saying that high doses of 4-AD cause no elevation in test? That can't be right can it?

Do the math:

Oral:
4AD @ 1000mg x 10% bioavailability = 100mg x 5% conversion = 5mg testosterone x 7/d = 35mg/w. That is certainly not elevated and will likely only inhibit you. Not to mention all of that aromatization to estrogen.

The only way that even makes 4AD worth using is if you use it transdermally. Even then, you ain't getting much test.

TD:
4AD @ 1000mg x 25% TD absorption = 250mg x 5% conversion = 12.5mg testosterone x 7/d = 87.5mg/w.

There are some intrinsic properties to 4AD besides testosterone conversion, but there benefit is questionable.

[Sonicology]

4-AD has a 15% conversion rate tho doesn't it? And andro 5%?

edit: also unlike andro, 4-AD can't directly aromatise to estrone.

[David Dunn]

Yeah, diol is ~15% and dione is ~5%

Yes, diol does not directly aromatize

[SupraLover]

I love when the facts are presented so clearly; thank you for presenting this. I personally use 4ad with M1T to simply combat side effects. Alone, however, I doubt 4ad would ever be worth taking, especially orally which is what I have available to me (Promatrix 4ad caps (250mg)).

[jomi822]

hey anabolicloc, what is your post cycle therapy?