270 versus 288
- 04-19-2007, 12:58 PM
270 versus 288
i am referring to the epithio steroid debate, and which molecular ion peak value is most consistent with the compound
I have tested hundreds of steroids on GC/MS. I know how they behave. So I am very confident in my opinion.
The molecular weight of the epithio steroid is 320. This steroid is known to easily lose a sulfur atom if heated. A double bond is left behind.
Lightner, Djerassi, Chem&Ind, 1237(1962)
IN this article they demonstrate the pryolytic breakdown of the very similar 2alpha,3alpha-epithio-5alpha-cholestan to delta2-5alpha-cholestan at 130 C.
That gives you a molecular weight of 288. And that is the molecular ion peak we see with havoc and hemaguno. In fact this mass spectrum matches that of DMT (which if you lose the sulfur in this manner, you should get this)
It has been argued that the teritary alcohol at C17 can dehydrate. If this occured then you would have a molecular ion peak of 270
However dehydration of the C17 tertiary alcohol does not occur. I believe I can be considered a solid authority on this. I never shot in a 17alpha-methyl steroid that did this
If indeed this did happen, then if I were to shoot DMT into the GC/MS i would get a mass spectrum with M+ of 270. But i do not, i get 288, and it matches what is seen with hemaguno and havoc. I have tested DMT before, trust me.
Its 100% inarguable in my mind. The only possiblity is that hemaguno and havoc have DMT in them and not epithio. but other tests can confirm or deny this
- 04-19-2007, 01:48 PM
So in all possibility, the havoc and hemo have DMT, but epithio does not have DMT...what % would u place on this? >70% chance or is it a far fetched occurrence....
If this is the case then the 270 vs 280 is solved....the only question is that if epithio does not contain DMT, then ????????
04-19-2007, 02:01 PM
PA, how does this translate into product purity.
in the tests i have seen all 3 brands have have under 4mgs out of 10mgs of the substance they were tested for.
does this mean epistane contains the wrong substance in an underdosed quanitity?
does this mean huma and havoc were tested under the wrong standard and really contain more than the amount they were tested for having per capsule?
are all products underdosed?
someone really needs to break this down to a non chemistry perspective
04-19-2007, 02:07 PM
04-19-2007, 02:09 PM
we did not do anything to look for amount per capsule. We merely wanted to see if the major ingredient matched up with what was on the label
doing a quantitative test is a pain in the ass compared to just shooting it in and looking at the qualitative results. not worth wasting our time
04-19-2007, 02:10 PM
I will do Anything for love... but I wont do that...
...Ooops... wrong thread.
Let the drama begin again.
Good to see a figure head like PA around here.
Welcome *back* PA.
The Historic PES Legend
04-19-2007, 02:14 PM
So PA youre official position is that, under the same conditions in the same exact test, Huma and Havoc appear to have a different compound (that you conside to be the correct compound) than Epistane does.
04-19-2007, 02:17 PM
04-19-2007, 02:40 PM
This is all so strange.
But isnt epistane acting as the compound should with the serm effects that people are showing in the logs.
04-19-2007, 02:45 PM
04-19-2007, 02:47 PM
what about the gyno reduction that epistane users have reported, doesn't dmt aromatize to some extent making this impossible?
04-19-2007, 02:47 PM
04-19-2007, 02:50 PM
04-19-2007, 02:50 PM
04-19-2007, 03:02 PM
04-19-2007, 03:07 PM
Androgens antagonize the actions of estrogens without having to affect the binding of estrogens to the receptor.
04-19-2007, 03:14 PM
PA, if you follow that link that LMD posted, the doctors writeup lists Epistane and Havoc as having two different names for their actives.
Epistane: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methylethioallo cholan-17b-ol
Havoc: 2a,3a epithio-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
The doc also says that Havoc has a double bond, whereas Epistane has a single bond, so that's why Havoc doesn't dehydrate in the injection port of the GC chamber but Epistane does. To my mind, that means two different compounds. But, I can't decode IUPAC nomenclature for beans. Are these names both synonyms for the same compound?
04-19-2007, 03:18 PM
04-19-2007, 03:21 PM
my only question is.....reguardless of which is what its supposed to be which one works better.....so far ive read more positivemreviewsmfrom epi
04-19-2007, 03:26 PM
04-19-2007, 03:39 PM
Yet he talks about Havoc having a double bond, and Epistane having a single bond. Not sure how much that matters, but it certainly sounds like two different compounds.
I'm also confused about this demthylation thing, I thought it was dehydration which brought the M+ down to 270.
04-19-2007, 03:41 PM
the nomenclature he used there for havoc does not designate there being any double bond. So the mention of a double bond is inconsistent and nonsensical
the doctor also said demethylation (twice) when he should have said dehydration. Dehydration is a common occurence in gas chromatography, so no analytical chemist would mistake the word demethylation for dehydration
lastly, there is no commercially avaialbable standard for either the alpha or beta isomers of this stuff. So i cannot fathom how this doctor was able to come to such a confident conclusion
its very suspicious
04-19-2007, 03:42 PM
04-19-2007, 03:46 PM
04-19-2007, 03:47 PM
04-19-2007, 03:48 PM
04-19-2007, 04:00 PM
04-19-2007, 04:05 PM
04-19-2007, 04:09 PM
04-19-2007, 04:11 PM
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