Does this make any sense? - AnabolicMinds.com

Does this make any sense?

  1. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1635

    Reputation

  2. Board Supporter
    Stavross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    37
    Posts
    191
    Rep Power
    203

    Reputation

    I'm not a chemist or biologist so can't really say whether it's true or not.
    But, the thing with epistane, as with all the other desighner steroids we take, is it is a bit of an unknown quantity. That is, no long term studies done on it's health effects etc.

    More and more i'm leaning toward the idea of switching over to the darkside. for the sake of my health. ironic really.
  3. Elite Member
    jmh80's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    8,110
    Rep Power
    9661

    Reputation

    Can you quote it over here?
    I'm lazy.
    •   
       

  4. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1635

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    Can you quote it over here?
    I'm lazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by the doc
    looks like carcinogen in a bottle to me.

    seriously, delivering an epoxide to the nucleus of a cell = mutagen!

    i know the folklore about steroids and cancer but if there was ever one that would live up to it - it would be this! I am not denying that it may work in the short term, but what about the long term?? Much, much to risky imo
    the doc has 10k posts and is a super moderator on that site.
  5. Diamond Member
    Jayhawkk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    12,790
    Rep Power
    11679

    Reputation

    Long term on a lot of these are very unknown and are only , to my knowledge, able to be looked at long term by what 'should' happen based off their structure. You can look outside of the designer ph/as market and see this too. As with all things in life; we have to educate ourselves as much as possible and let the rest go to hope and a prayer. The alternate is reducing the unknown by putting as little of these types of things in our body as possible...Only to die of lung cancer without ever smoking a cigarette or getting hit by a drunk driver.
  6. Elite Member
    jmh80's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    8,110
    Rep Power
    9661

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    the doc has 10k posts and is a super moderator on that site.
    I sure as sh*t don't see an epoxide on the molecule on the front of my Epi bottle.

    An epoxide is a cyclic ether with only three ring atoms. This ring approximately is an equilateral triangle, i.e. its bond angles are about 60°, which makes it highly strained. The strained ring makes epoxides more reactive than other ethers, especially towards nucleophiles. Simple epoxides are named from the parent compound ethylene oxide or oxirane, such as in chloromethyloxirane. As a functional group epoxides obtain the epoxy prefix such as in the compound 1,2-epoxycycloheptane which can also be called cycloheptene epoxide.
    Epoxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There is nothing that looks like C-O-C (The carbon's are also bonded to themselves to make a triangle.)

    Epoxides don't last long as mentioned. They are HIGHLY strained as far as bond angle goes.


    Unless there is a reaction in the body that takes Epi to an epoxide - this guy (no matter how many posts) is full of sh*t.
  7. Elite Member
    yeahright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,368
    Rep Power
    10344

    Reputation

    Tinkering with one's body chemistry should never be done lightly. It always has the potential to cause all sorts of biological mischief.

    However, given that the parent compound for epi is used as a cancer treatment in Japan, I'm doubting that it has any serious carcinogenic/mutagenic problems.

    People coming out of the woodwork to slag off this product. I've never seen anything like it.
  8. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,779
    Rep Power
    307852

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    LOL, no wonder he has 10,000 posts, looks like he talks a lot of hot air! This is an episulfide, not an epoxide. Remember that epoxides are more polar that episulfides, and lots of drugs have this function in them too. You see a lot of lactones in nature also and they are excreted unchanged in many cases (no metabolism or danger of cell oxidation.) This guy was just a bit confused it seems.
  9. Diamond Member
    Jayhawkk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    12,790
    Rep Power
    11679

    Reputation

    A lot of us stay confused It's like global warming to a point. You can seem to find an argument for whatever stance you take on it. One side imho, has more for it than the other but it's still there. I'll echo what YR said though. Seems Epi/Havoc et al has seen more crap come out of nowhere.
  10. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1635

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    A lot of us stay confused It's like global warming to a point. You can seem to find an argument for whatever stance you take on it. One side imho, has more for it than the other but it's still there. I'll echo what YR said though. Seems Epi/Havoc et al has seen more crap come out of nowhere.
    Thanks for clearing that up guys.
  11. New Member
    Dr_C2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    44
    Posts
    130
    Rep Power
    159

    Reputation

    To add to the discussion, there has not been a single peer-reviewed, double-blind study published to my knowledge (20+ years worth) that either demonstrated a correlation and certainly not a causal relationship between **any** AAS and cellular mutation.

    Now, I do understand where he may be going with this suggestion. There is some correlation, again not a causal relationship, in the research literature that suggests administration of AAS can accelerate cellular mutation when the subject in question is already predisposed to such.

    Simply, if you are prone to a type of cancer, and may develop it over the course of, say, the next 30 years of your life, it is plausible that administration AAS may accelerate the rate of development. (i.e. you may express symptoms sooner than you may have without AAS).

    Dr_C
  12. Elite Member
    DR.D's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  228 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,779
    Rep Power
    307852

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_C2 View Post
    ... Simply, if you are prone to a type of cancer, and may develop it over the course of, say, the next 30 years of your life, it is plausible that administration AAS may accelerate the rate of development. (i.e. you may express symptoms sooner than you may have without AAS).

    Dr_C
    Speaking of which, I think the inverse argument could be made as well. It stands to reason that administration of a specific compound today may delay or eliminate the latency for some otherwise inevitable pre-disposed condition too. Smokers are less likely to manifest Alzheimer's, for example, and show a later onset by ~6yrs over the general pop. (though they are more likely to die of lung cancer) so couldn't proactive, strategic steroid use today yield predicable benefits tomorrow, just as blind use of them may yield problem later? Blanket statement like "mutation" are a weak justification and only serve as fear propaganda. I agree with you about the last few decades of conventional studies.
  13. New Member
    Dr_C2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    44
    Posts
    130
    Rep Power
    159

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Speaking of which, I think the inverse argument could be made as well. It stands to reason that administration of a specific compound today may delay or eliminate the latency for some otherwise inevitable pre-disposed condition too. Smokers are less likely to manifest Alzheimer's, for example, and show a later onset by ~6yrs over the general pop. (though they are more likely to die of lung cancer) so couldn't proactive, strategic steroid use today yield predicable benefits tomorrow, just as blind use of them may yield problem later? Blanket statement like "mutation" are a weak justification and only serve as fear propaganda. I agree with you about the last few decades of conventional studies.
    Well stated and you are absolutely correct! As well, your comment is very timely. We live in a "sound-byte society" that willing extrapolates far beyond the scope plausibility of conclusions in published research simply to propel an agenda, particularly when the agenda is one of a negative position or posture.

    There is one in my in box now! The study reported a rare case of hepatic adenomas (HA), in a 20-year-old Japanese girl treated for 6 years with 30 mg of oxymetholone for aplastic anemia.


    Biopsied specimens from the liver tumor showed HA. According to the chiropractor who sent this to me the article is “irrefutable prove of the detrimental effect of steroid use.”

    I do not have enough time in a week, to explain to folks like that the erroneous and ill-informed opinions with which they pollute our ranks.

    Dr_C
  14. Diamond Member
    Jayhawkk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    12,790
    Rep Power
    11679

    Reputation

    While I think fear propaganda or any propaganda for that matter is a problem, I also think total disregard isn't the answer either. In the end I still think it's the consumers duty to search for the information and make a judgement of the same based off their perceived risk/reward. Cause in 20-30 years I doubt any of these people citing one study or another will still be around.
  15. New Member
    solidwon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    31
    Rep Power
    108

    Reputation

    Nolvadex is traditionally used to combat breast cancer isn't it? I have also read that tamoxifen is a carcinogen in itself.
  16. Diamond Member
    Jayhawkk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    12,790
    Rep Power
    11679

    Reputation

    Duration of use, current illnesses/conditions and dose can take a cure and turn it into a disease. Which is why it's so hard to get anything concrete in regards to these drugs/supplements in either direction. So many variables and not enough money invested in studying them.
  17. New Member
    Dr_C2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    44
    Posts
    130
    Rep Power
    159

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk View Post
    So many variables and not enough money invested in studying them.

    Right and there is no prospect of long-term, rigorous studies due to the overwhelming number of exogenous variables for which we as researchers cannot exert an ability to control (or even account).

    Make no mistake - I am not advocating use (although some of my peers would disagree with that ) and I deplore anyone who abuses these substances.

    However, there are folks on both sides of this argument that are making ill-information statements and worse yet others are making ill-informed choices.

    As you implied, education is the opportunity one has to alleviate ignorance and make an informed decision – in either direction.

    Dr_C
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Does this make sense?
    By glennwethere in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-11-2009, 05:17 PM
  2. Does this make sense to anyone?
    By thomastobird in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-02-2007, 10:10 PM
  3. Does this make sense? Cycle
    By bignative22 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-11-2007, 10:00 PM
  4. Does this make sense?
    By Emiran in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-31-2006, 02:19 PM
  5. Lipid Profile before Superdrol - Does this make sense?
    By CEDeoudes59 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-21-2005, 01:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in