Putting Havoc to the gyno test, Jomi822's Havoc Log - AnabolicMinds.com

Putting Havoc to the gyno test, Jomi822's Havoc Log

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    Putting Havoc to the gyno test, Jomi822's Havoc Log with pictures


    Purchased Havoc a couple of weeks ago and have just recently completed a post cycle therapy. I was debating on whether to start up a log or not but I have read there seems to be a question out there as to whether epistane or havoc is better at reducing gyno.

    I have Havoc, so i will be putting that alone to the test.

    My cycle is as follows.
    500mgs Testosterone E weeks 1-5
    1000mgs Testosterone E weeks 5-.......

    30mgs Havoc ED weeks 1-4

    As for my gyno situation, i did have pubertal gyno on my left side up until around november 2006. i had tried Rebound xt, raloxifene, 6-oxo, and tamoxifen previously to try and reduce or eliminate it. due to constant tamoxifen and anastrazole use...my gyno has almost completetly disappeared, spare some puffiness a day or two a week.

    I am prone to gyno, and even with a slow buildup of average dose testosterone i would normally show signs of irritation. i will not be using tamoxifen or anastrazole for the first 4 weeks of this cycle. Havoc will be my only estrogen control. Id also like to see if it manages to take a little puffiness away.

    As for the extra testosterone in there....it will add almost no gains to my current weight (254lbs). I was cruising on one gram of testosterone a week at the end of my last cycle simply for maintainance (260lbs).

    my goal for this cycle is to drop the fat around my midsection i have packed on during post cycle therapy, and to add at least 5lbs of muscle (im being realistic here).

    other supplements...
    flax seed oil
    hawthorne berry
    Saw palmetto
    CO q-10


    average daily diet breakdown is as follows (it almost never deviates).

    2 gallons of milk a day
    supplemental whey protein, 40 grams per day pre workout
    6 pieces of chicken with rice per day (2-3 hours apart in the morning and afternoon)

    dinner is typically a chicken wrap or turkey sandwhich on wheat bread.

    2 powerbar "protein plus" protein bars per day (23g of protein each).

    late at night i snack on either cheez-its (dont give me too much flak, i try and keep it under 2 servings) or fat free popcorn.

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    DAY 2- 4/11/07

    I am starting this log on the second day. My first testosterone injection (250mgs) was yesterday, along with 20mgs of havoc in the morning and 10mgs pre workout.

    i did not notice anything during my first workout. weight is still at 254lbs. no strength gains.

    gyno is still supressed.

    Here are some "before" pictures. unpumped

    sorry for the horrible quality, ill put up some better ones at the end of the week.
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    Day 2...part 2

    Ok, my second workout was today.

    First of all, weight was at 256lbs (water weight, ate before i came to the gym)

    my shoulder workout was as follows

    dumbell shoulder press-
    55's x 10
    100's x 8
    100's x 8
    100's x 8

    Smit machine standing shoulder press (my gym doesnt have a shoulder press bench)-
    225x5
    245x5
    245x5

    Weight stack shoulder press-
    whole stack x 10
    whole stack x 10
    whole stack x 10

    lateral raises-
    55's x 10
    55's x 10
    55's x 10

    Cheat Side dumbell raises-
    65's x 10
    65's x 10
    65's x 10
    Straight arm side dumbell raises-
    50's x 8
    50's x 8
    50's x 8

    Bent over lateral raises-
    50's x 10
    50's x 10
    50's x 10

    4 sets of abs....(not close enough to summer for me to start caring yet)

    Defineitly a much better feeling in my muscles than when on post cycle therapy. My strength and repetition ability is still the same, but i had a bit more energy and less burning muscle fatique. maybe a tad of positive agression in there.

    Nips are a bit puffy, no soreness or itchiness.
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    subscribed....

    the havoc is not controlling the estrogen from the test as i dont think the long ester would really do much for the first 4 weeks so im assuming the havoc would just be for reduction of gyno.

    I think it would be nicer to see you run the havoc at the same time the test aromatizes.

    What will you use to control gyno/estro for the rest of the cycle?

    excited to follow this log Jomi!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    the havoc is not controlling the estrogen from the test as i dont think the long ester would really do much for the first 4 weeks so im assuming the havoc would just be for reduction of gyno.

    I think it would be nicer to see you run the havoc at the same time the test aromatizes.

    What will you use to control gyno/estro for the rest of the cycle?
    my natural total testosterone levels are pretty low. In every blood test i have taken my total T has been just under 500 (if not on any AI's or serms). a little extra estrogen floating around goes a long way. I assure you that by week 2 without any estrogen control i would show signs of nipple irritation, itching and eventually sorenss/a lump. It has happend before.

    Estrogen control once off havoc will be 20mgs tamoxifen per day and .25mgs of anastrazole every other day. Again, i assure you this is necessary.
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    Day 3 4/13/07

    Off day, second testosterone enanthate injection is tomorrow at 250mgs, bringing me up to 500 for the week.

    Not much to report....

    Nipples are a bit puffy, but nothing to worry about at this point. No itching or soreness/lump.

    The two positive things id like to report are that my muscles have a fuller look to them (not a ton, but very noticeable to me) and that i feel like the asbolute man. I have a lot more energy and positive agression than i did before the start of the cycle.

    I live in a city and i do a ton of walking. my endurance has definitely improved.

    Again, nothing dramatic, but noticeable.
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    Day 4 4/14/07

    weight- 261lbs....used a different scale today which i assuming is responsible for the jump in weight.

    250mgs of testosterone enanthat in the delt today...up to my target dose of 500mgs for the week

    nipples are in PRISTINE condition. they almost look half hard. no puffiness to speak of. i am hoping it stays this way

    Arm day-

    Warm up dips-
    body weight x10
    x10
    x10

    Tri extension tower-
    half stack x 15
    full stack x 6
    full stack x 7
    full stack x 6

    Dumbell tri extensions-
    100lbs x 10
    100lbs x 10
    100lbs x 10
    (100lb dumbells is the biggest my school gym has to offer)

    Rope tri extensions, weight stack-
    220 x 12
    220 x 13
    220 x 12

    Close grip attatchment tri extensions-
    Whole stack x 12
    whole stack x 12
    whole stack x 12

    Push down machine-
    whole stack x 15
    whole stack x12
    whole stack x 10

    Alternating dumbell curls-
    55 x 10
    75 x 10
    75 x 10
    75 x 10

    Cheat curls with ez curl bar-
    135lbs x 10
    135lbs x 10
    135lbs x 10

    Hammer curls (each arm separately)-
    55 x 10
    55 x 10
    55 x 10

    preacher curl weight stack-
    140 x 8
    140 x 8
    140 x 8

    9 sets of abs, 3 incline sit up sets, 3 sets per each side of obliques

    felt pretty damn good in the gym today. postive agression is still there, better than normal pumps.

    id also like to add that my appetite has not suffered at all, which usually happens quite quickly when i use any type of methyl.
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    you`re a freaking ANIMAL!!! nice DB curls
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    i try chad, i try.

    nothing a little extra tren cant do, right? doitt
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    i try chad, i try.

    nothing a little extra tren cant do, right? doitt
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    Day 5 4/14/07

    Took an off day today. Im entering a small bench press competition on tuesday, which just happens to land right on chest day, so i am taking today off to bump that day forward a bit.

    I had some very noticeable negative agression today. nothing unmanageable though.

    Again, nipples are in great shape, looking almost half hard. no soreness or puffiness to speak of.

    they look better than they did on an anastrazole/tamoxifen combo

    Two thumbs up, tomorrow is leg day.
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    Day 6 4/15/07



    ive had better days let me tell ya.

    Im up in boston and it is raining like you wouldnt believe up here. sheet after sheet of rain. The rain comes at you horizontally, and just laughs in the face of an umbrella. i had to walk a good 20 minutes in this.

    ON TOP OF THAT, the gym i go to had some special closing time because of marathon monday tomorrow, so i only go to complete squats (which is about half my workout)

    Squats-
    225 x5
    315x5
    405 x5
    495 x 3
    455 x5
    455 x5
    405 x 5

    at the peak of my last cycle i could get 495 for 5. three sets of that. lets see if havoc can bring me back up to speed.

    I did not weigh myself today.
    I felt extremely tired all day

    as for the gyno situation, it is getting even better. Unbelievably, in fact. thought id post up a small comparison.

    its a bit hard to see, but it really is much better than it has been before. the first picture is from the beginning, the second is from tonight.
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    nice log..keep up the good work
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    the pics look about the same but i know it must be getting better if you say so because we all know are nipples dont we? lol.

    It will be interesting to see how it goes for you. I will be using epi or havoc in the future unless we start seeing some bad backlash from it from the first users.
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    Day 7 4/16/07

    Marathon monday is boston, just about everything was closed, so no workout obviously.

    im a little pissed my workout schedule has been so messed up of late. after tomorrow it should get back to normal.

    not much else to mention, agression is still there (short fuse without a doubt). my nipples are actually looking a bit worse today, not exactly sure why.

    my girlfriend has informed me my stomach looks "much better" than it did a week ago. this is more from a hardening effect than anything else i can tell. pretty sweet though

    ill post up 1 week progress pics tomorrow when i can get someone to help me so i dont have to take pics in front of the mirror.
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    Day 8 4/17/07

    250mgs of t-e in the delt today

    Competed in a small bench press competition today, and won. I actually feel kind of bad, the runner up was 175lbs and benched 325lbs. i am 263.5lbs and benched 405 (not my PR ) and our scores were extremely close. im fairly sure he didnt have some havoc helping him out. o well

    yes thats correct, i weighed in at 263.5lbs today. it is mostly water weight gained, as you can see in the pictures below. i feel like a balloon.

    My chest workout (competition warm ups and attempt first)-
    225x10
    315 x 7
    225x2
    405x 1 (with 2 second pause at the bottom)

    365 x3
    335 x 6
    335x5
    335x5

    Incline bench-
    225 x8
    275 x7
    275 x5
    275 x 6

    Weight stack bench, semi close grip-
    whole stack x 5
    whole stack x 5
    whole stack x 5

    Cable flys-
    140 (on each side)x 6
    130x 6
    130 X 5

    Abs- three sets incline sit ups
    three sets each side obliques with 25lb weight

    libido is weird, no problem downtown but the lack of sex drive is noticeable.

    gyno is still pretty supressed, more so than yesterday, only slightly better than the nolva anastrazole combo i was on previously. agression wasnt so pronounced today, still on a bit of short fuse.

    8 day progress pics...godamn water retention.
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    and before anyone asks, yes that is a bit of an igf-1 lr3 gut
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomi822 View Post
    and before anyone asks, yes that is a bit of an igf-1 lr3 gut
    Why does igf-1 tend to hold more water in the stomach region?
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    the intestines have 200% more igf-1 receptors than the rest of the body. now the common protocal is 20-40mcgs Eod-E3d.

    back when i used it 40mcgs a day was the standard. that is way too much, hence, permanent intestinal growth.

    growth hormone gut. nada i can do about it
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    very imformative thankyou, was thinking about trying out a 4 weeker prior to my test e havoc cycle.
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    Small update 4/18/07

    i am giving blood in a couple of hours, mostly to just have them check what my hematocrit looks like (necessary before they take the blood).

    my last EQ injection was about 11 weeks ago. any takers as to what they think my RBC % is at? im saying 70%
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    Just got back from the red cross donation center.

    they were going to run some kind of other test on my electrolytes and copper? but i asked for the hematocrit test instead.

    it was "close to 70%" and i was denied giving blood until i got a doctors consultation to determine whether i had a blood disease.

    either that or the whispering going on between them before they did the test was about the implications of my muscular development . i feel like they made the hemotocrit level up.

    in either case i could not give blood. ill stick to the aspirin.
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    4/19/07 Day 10

    im writing this in the morning on 4/20, happy weed day (no i dont celebrate it)

    First of all, last night i had to take 20mgs of nolva and .25mg of adex. my nipples were puffy and my left one was becoming just a little sore. I am continuing with 10mgs a day of nolva just to see how it goes.

    Something has kicked a little. I was pumped throughout the day but the lethary was absolutely horrible. Starting to get a little bit of acne on the shoulders and face, nothing major. i started to use nizoral shampoo and antibacterial dish soap on my face and shoulders. I also have retin-a just in case things get out of control.

    Back workout day-

    barbell shrugs-
    225x10
    315x8
    365x7
    365x6
    365x9

    behind the back smith machine shrugs-
    405x10
    405x10
    405x10

    dumbell shrugs-
    100lbs each side x15
    100lbs x15
    x15

    i wish they had bigger dumbells

    PUll down tower, regular attatchment-
    190x 10
    whole stack (300) x8
    whole stack x 8
    whole stack x8

    seated rows, close grip attatchment-
    whole stack x8
    whole stack x8
    whole stack x8

    Pull down tower, close grip attatchment-
    whole stack x6
    whole stack x6
    whole stack x5

    Row machine weight stack-
    using only left arm-
    whole stack x9
    whole stack x10
    whole stack x10

    using only right arm-
    whole stack x10
    whole stack x8
    whole stack x 10

    abs, 4 sets up inclined sit ups

    does anyone elses hands get absoltuely shredded on back workout day? even with gloves it feel like my hands are being dipped in boiling oil. i love to throw some t bar rows in there but my hands were just too shredded to consider it. maybe next time

    id like to put it out there right now, i would love to do deadlifts but i have a nice little calcium depsoit in my left shoulder. nearing the top of the lift it feels like someone is going at my shoulder with a nail gun.

    definitely up in strength, if not amount of repetitions. i may be switching over to more barbell free weight movements so i can add more weight. however the lethargy in the gym is pretty killer. the testosterone injections arent doing anything to combat the lethary havoc is obviously giving me.

    shoulder day today.
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    Day 10 4/20/07

    Still a little sore in the left nipple this morning. however now its in much better shape, not sure if its from the adex or the tamoxifen.

    in either case, im beginning to think havoc is failing my gyno test.

    250mgs of testosterone in the left thigh today.

    alright now as for the weight....269lbs
    i am holding quite a bit of water, methylepithiostinol is defineitly not a cutting drug.

    my strength is climbing but not as fast as my weight gain. lethary was a bit less pronounced today, and my agression has evened out quite a bit.

    shoulder day-

    dumbell shoulder presses-
    55x10
    100x 8
    100 x8
    100 x8
    100x 8
    i usually cant go 8 reps for all 3 sets, much less 4

    Smith machine shoulder press-
    225x 7
    245 x 6
    245 x 6

    Shoulder press weight stack-
    whole stack x 10
    x10
    x10

    lateral dumbell raises-
    55x 10
    60 x8
    60x 10

    cheat side dumbell raises-
    65 x10
    70 x10
    70 x10

    straight arm side dumbell raises-
    50 x8
    50 x10
    50x10

    bent over lateral raises-
    55's x 15
    55x12
    55x10
    pump got a littler unbearable
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    Good log bro. Lots of informative stuff here. I am on day 12 of a havoc cycle but havent noticed a lot of water weight. Pretty dry so far (i did get sick for a couple of days which may contributed to this). Keep up the solid work.
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    Hey man, I hope one day to be putting up that kinda weight in the gym.....hopefully in a year.
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    Day 13 4/22/07 updating on 4/23

    weight at 271lbs

    i had a very nice constant pump and im bulging out of all of my shirts...well more than usual

    updating for last nights workout

    put down .75mgs of adex to try and control the bloat. Gyno was kind of weird, puffy, but no longer sore or itchy. got better throughout the day.


    arm workout-

    warm up dips-
    body weight x10
    x10
    x10

    Tri extension tower-
    half stack x 15
    full stack x7
    full stack x 7
    full stack x8
    felt pretty damn good on this exercise

    Rope tri extenstions, weight stack-
    220x14
    230 x12
    230 x12

    dumbell overhead one arm tri extensions-
    50lbs x 10 (each arm)
    x 10
    x9
    this is up about 10lbs from what i can usually bust out

    Push down machine-
    whole stack x 15
    whole stack x 14
    whole stack x 9
    ouch, pump...

    alternating dumbell curls-
    55x 10
    75's x 10
    75 x 10
    75 x10
    felt kind of normal on this one...

    cheat curls with ez curl bar-
    135lbs x 12
    135lbs x 10
    145lbs x 10

    hammer curls-
    60 x 10 (each arm)
    60 x10
    60 x10

    Preacher curl weight stack-
    150lbs x 10
    150lbs x 8
    150lbs x 8
    pumps got quite painful on this one

    then the gym closed so i couldnt do the cardio ive been planning on starting up...

    acne has died down a bit...probably from the antibacterials and the nizoral application

    libido and performance are down, thank god for cialis.
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    Day 15 4/24/07

    A little update on yesterday's leg workout.

    FIrst of all, nipples are doing fine at .25mgs of adex a day...and my water retention is down. i can say at this point Havoc was not enough to control my gyno, though it was certainly doing something for a few days to shrink the gland before the testosterone levels started to rise...

    leg day-
    squats-
    225x5
    315x5
    405x5
    455x 5
    495x6
    455x7
    455x6
    405x5

    suhweet. felt more power on this than the last leg workout for sure.

    incline leg press-
    540 plus whatever the sled weighs...x7
    x7
    x8

    weight stack leg extensions-
    whole stack x12
    x12
    x12

    seated hamstring curl stack-
    whole stack x 10
    whole stack x 9
    whole stack x 10

    standing calves machine-
    400x15
    400 x15
    400x15
    400 x12

    weight was at 271...and i have started to lose more fat around the midsection.

    agression is WAY up...id say im starting to get just as bad on Havoc as i am on tren. i have 0 fuse whatsoever, and the gf has noticed i am constantly irritated (i informed her this might be the case for a couple of weeks).
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    ill put up some more progress pics tomorrow after my chesticle workout
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    Sorry guys, got way caught up in school and about a million other things, kind of dropped the ball with this log.

    Long story short, i stopped taking havoc today (day 28). i have been considering doing so for about a week but kept trucking on. i simply cant take havoc for another 2 days.

    the lethargy was simply way too much, and my connective tissue is simply not having a great time. my mood is all over the place, but far too negatively agressive for my liking. im also starting to have some digestive problems....morning sickness type issues...etc.

    havoc had some kind of effect on my nipples before the testosterone levels started to increase...made them very firm and shrunk whatever tissue i had remaining in there...but they puffed right back up with only 500mgs of testosterone a week in the mix.

    My strength is up of course....but honestly 75mg of tren EOD at 245lbs made me much stronger than i am even now...attttt (ding ding ding) 274lbs.

    i am ginormous, which may be what has contributed to the issues in my connective tissue.

    the negative aggression was so bad in fact, that a week ago i threw in deca at 300mgs a week just to help to even myself out. this was a pretty major decision since i am way sensitive to nandrolones in terms of shutdown and fina/deca ****. i only have one recent pic, taken 4 or 5 days ago (at 272lbs).

    overall breakdown-
    28 days of havoc 30mgs ED
    Weight gain...20lbs (254 to 274)
    strength gains-
    bench 20lbs
    squat 30lbs or so
    curls (alternating)- moved up to 80lb dumbells from 75's
    tri extensions tower- went from whole stack to whole stack + a pinned on 10lb plate
    shoulders-
    +2 reps per set with 100lb dumbell presses
    lateral raises- moved up to 60lb dumbells from 50's
    side lateral cheat raises- moved up to 75lb db's from 65's
    bent over rear delts- way up in reps, moved up to 60's from 50's

    probably a 2% decrease in bodyfat

    sides- lethargy lethargy lethargy lethargy IRRITABILITY, joint and connective tissue pain


    a final pick for you guys...i wish havoc had provided a little more hardness
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    I would say it does look like it did some good for your gyno at the end of the day. However your gyno reportedly varies so much throughout the day that might be hard to verify.
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    keep us posted..
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