Epistane/HAVOC and endurance:
03-23-2007 06:07 PM
Epistane/HAVOC and endurance:
For those that have used EPI/HAVOC, I was wondering about there thoughts in their aerobic energy production on the aforementioned.
I ask, because I am looking to help a cycling enthusiest who is looking for an edge. The benefits he would be looking for are increased focus, aerobic production, increased recovery time and better nutrition utilization to name a few in no particular order.
He is a 220lbs 6'5 with a low bodyfat and massive legs. He is NOT looking for any size, in fact theoretically he would love some fat loss with his training demands. I was thinking of 20 mgs for 45 days. Your thoughts?
The other option I was considering was 30-35mgs of winny for 40 days.
03-25-2007 08:22 AM
03-25-2007 09:36 AM
I'm not sure if it was from increasing the dosages or from being on-cycle for that long, but near the end of a Havoc/Epi cycle it got hard to keep up with myself during cardio due to the painfully intense 'pumped' feeling I got in my legs.
03-25-2007 11:10 AM
03-26-2007 01:38 AM
Yeah, pumps are pretty bad. Just walking around the block my calves and lower back/gluts were seriously bugging me...on just 10 mg.
03-26-2007 09:31 AM
Are you taking any amounts of taurine?
Originally Posted by bioman
03-26-2007 02:00 PM
Yes, about 5 grams per day. This is a pump-a-rific compund for me not unlike SD.
1,4 ADD/Bold is a great endurance compound..probably the best of the PH's with 4AD being a close second IMO.
03-26-2007 04:21 PM
Yeah doing cardio was pain on Havoc, I'd jog for about half a mile then would have to quit the pain was so bad..
03-26-2007 04:25 PM
Strange, I was fine running distances of 3-15 kilometres while on epistane. I often took ephedrine though, which might control the pumps because of vasoconstriction.
It had no noticeable effect on my cardiovascular endurance.
05-01-2007 02:49 PM
hey, im 6'5 220 with a pretty low bf as well, im a basketball player.. and have been on 30mg of havoc the past week and a day, then 20mg for a week before that
i personally havnt felt anything from the havoc, my vert has gone up a bit, but ive been doing squats a2g the past month, so i think that may have somethign to do with it, i have no problem running basketball games for 2-3 hours long, and really dont see the hype behind havoc.. im hoping that next week when i hit 40mg i will change my mind however.. no noticeable strength increases, no decreased fatigue, no pumps in back or legs, no "dried out low estrogen" feelings either
05-01-2007 06:11 PM
it didn't hurt my endurance. you don't get any lethargy or joint pain.
one thing though...
most of the endurance cyclists seem to favor low dose test. without test i'd be concerned that the epistane (which has an anti-e effect) might reduce estrogen levels too much. you need a little estro for peak aerobic endurance (something to do with fat oxidation).
cuttingedgemuscle.com had the best info for enduro guys. dunno if they are still up tho.
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