Originally Posted by sock

Dr. D, what would you consider for time off between pulse cycles? I usually go 4 months off for a one month cycle + 1month post cycle therapy. Did you pulse anything back to back, and if so, how much time did you take off b/t if you did? I don't recall seeing this in this thread (I read it early last week). Thanks in advance.

Using your system... Toff = (Ton + PCT) 2

Now, if you're on 3-4 days per wk (x = 3 or 4) the original equation is modified to this:

Toff = [Ton (X/7)] 2

Of course, the new equation does not account for PCT since you are pulsing. So if you do an 8wk pulse dosing @ 3x/wk, time off = 6 weeks and 6 days, so ~ 7wks. This is twice as much off time as is needed IMO, but I definitely like your methodology.

Originally Posted by Cordeen

Thanks for the response. One more wee question though...would it be worth while to add Activate to the AI while pulsing or save it till the end?

Yes, it would help to use it daily while on, or save it till you're off and use it as a bridge. Either way, it needs to be cycled every 6-8wks to keep it fresh, then at least 2wks off before repeating.

Originally Posted by Nogrinia

Interesting to hear, so with that being said, is it even necessary for me to start a precycle saturation of the CS a week or 2 before starting the cycle or will this essentially serve no true protective purpose. I definitely do not want to waste it for "piece of mind" as I feel good about the stack and the goal I have set. Also, I was thinking about the following, June 4- July 6 will be enrolled in a very advanced heavy, fast paced/stressful college Marketing course (4 month course in 1 month) in addition to my full time job. Realistically, may only be able to get to workout 4 hours each week hopefully not as bad as last one (almost grad level 475, 2 mos. lived on ephedra, caffeine, 5 hours sleep, w/o log 21.25hrs over 7 wks). Should I wait to take this stack until after I complete the course or do you think I should be able to maintain it if I get at least that minimum 4 hrs of intense training in? Like I said I don't think this course should be as bad but just in case?

I would not pre-load the CS. You certainly could if you felt compelled to though.

As for your schedule, that sounds rough alright! I get about that much sleep to and it is very counter productive to gains and recovery (especially for arms it seems). Other than that, I think you could do it with the proper training style like a HIT or some version of that and not need lots of time to train during the week. It sounds like your diet may be compromised too with that schedule, so definitely take DHEA or a cortisol antagonist on the off days if you can.

Originally Posted by DR.D

I would not pre-load the CS. You certainly could if you felt compelled to though.

It sounds like your diet may be compromised too with that schedule, so definitely take DHEA or a cortisol antagonist on the off days if you can.

What dose (mgs) of DHEA would you reccomend on off days if this does occur?

Hey DOC,..

In a pulse fassion, with dosing days: Sun, Tues, Thursday, (and maybe a little something saturday morning if Im feelina little "rough" :P)

Anyways, so my standard 15-20mg dbol base...
I had added PP to that at 30mg.
Recently, I substatuted 20mg SD in place of the PP (cause I still cant tell if phera does anything for me other then slight supression)

noe, The chemical basicly clears by the time the next dose is taken right?
I mean, there might be metabolites left over, but the real anabolic effect is gone by the time Im going to take another dose right?

I know SD works for me, but I cant take more then 20mg SD becasue of it's CNS stim - I work out in the evenings, and would dose around 5pm,.. so Id never get to sleep

Would there be ANY differences WHAT anabolic I took? Could I choose to do SD on Sun and say PP tuesday?
you might ask why, but I am able to eat most of my cals in the evenings while at home... so I kinda need to have dosing around that time anyways for max bennifit.

(lol- didn't I say "QUICK" question??? )

anyways- while I wouldnt see an ADVANTAGE in altering the anabolic I take with the dbol, are there any DISadvantages?

Originally Posted by DR.D

I gotta get a hold of AI and design him a Pulsing Cycle Support formula! It would skip the liver stuff you don't need but include some extra test boosters to discourage shutdown. That would be awesome and take most of the guess work out of pulsing ancillaries for sure.

I"ll buy! Pulsing superdrol right now and I love it. Thanks D

Originally Posted by gymrat5713

I"ll buy! Pulsing superdrol right now and I love it. Thanks D

What have you seen from your pulse? what are your doses?

Originally Posted by Nogrinia

What dose (mgs) of DHEA would you reccomend on off days if this does occur?

25-50mg if no AI is used or 50-200mg with an AI (in divided doses in morning and early afternoon)

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

Hey DOC,..

In a pulse fassion, with dosing days: Sun, Tues, Thursday, (and maybe a little something saturday morning if Im feelina little "rough" :P)

Anyways, so my standard 15-20mg dbol base...
I had added PP to that at 30mg.
Recently, I substatuted 20mg superdrol in place of the PP (cause I still cant tell if phera does anything for me other then slight supression)

noe, The chemical basicly clears by the time the next dose is taken right?
I mean, there might be metabolites left over, but the real anabolic effect is gone by the time Im going to take another dose right?

I know SD works for me, but I cant take more then 20mg SD becasue of it's CNS stim - I work out in the evenings, and would dose around 5pm,.. so Id never get to sleep

Would there be ANY differences WHAT anabolic I took? Could I choose to do SD on Sun and say PP tuesday?
you might ask why, but I am able to eat most of my cals in the evenings while at home... so I kinda need to have dosing around that time anyways for max bennifit.

(lol- didn't I say "QUICK" question??? )

anyways- while I wouldnt see an ADVANTAGE in altering the anabolic I take with the dbol, are there any DISadvantages?

You can mix and match for sure. If you're using 2 orals, try taking the more androgenic compound pre-w/o (strength, CNS) and the more anabolic compound post-w/o (recovery, nitrogen retention). Only a rule of thumb though, not always.

Originally Posted by DR.D

You can mix and match for sure. If you're using 2 orals, try taking the more androgenic compound pre-w/o (strength, CNS) and the more anabolic compound post-w/o (recovery, nitrogen retention). Only a rule of thumb though, not always.

lol- honestly, who's to say for sure wether SD or PP is the more androgenic.. personally, Id give it to SD, I view PP as mainly a pure anabolic.
But mainly, I only dose once (either the Phera or SD).
I really only take one 30mg dbol PH after I work out,.. and that's only 1.5 hours later.

What I will try Thursdayis I will dose 10mg SD at 3:00pm, and then when I get home @ 5, I'll hit my dbol and another 10mg SD and see how I bounce then next day.

lol- It will be 6-8 weeks until I get this maximum effenciency/rebound balance down

This looks great. I've been trying to get all the angles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were supposed to space out your doses of orals so that you body could replenish the enzymes you need to use them? That's a very simple way to put a good bit of info I think I kind of understood. Would dosing before and after workouts change this? And what about days you don't lift? Is spacing doses out needed then?

good to see Dr. D posting again at full strength.

im still waiting on my monies to get straightened around, but ill hopefully be pulsing some EPI before i leave for college in late august / september, if something happens financially though i may wait untill im settled in at college before i start.

maybe to curb some repeat questions, different cycles should be posted in the first post of this thread, something like a "base" pulse cycle, and then maybe 1-2 other cycles with different supps added in that ive seen mentioned in here, that would be great.

no loading on CS then? i may only have to buy one jug of it now, lol.

Started my pulse of SD/PP at 22.5/10 mg seemed to agree well with me. 15 mg of SD about 2:30pm followed by another 7.5mg right b4 8pm workout. Great 3 hours followed by post meal,shake, and 10mg PP and fell asleep like a champ. Glad I took most of the SD early as the stims had me going pretty good for a while. Any problem with splitting up the SD dosages like this?

Originally Posted by Cool

This looks great. I've been trying to get all the angles. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were supposed to space out your doses of orals so that you body could replenish the enzymes you need to use them? That's a very simple way to put a good bit of info I think I kind of understood. Would dosing before and after workouts change this? And what about days you don't lift? Is spacing doses out needed then?

The more evenly spaced, the more efficient the anabolism, but also the greater the time of suppression and the greater the odds of a weak bounce. It's a balancing act. I would take 2 doses max on w/o days and keep them to within 3hrs of each other (as a general rule) but you may be able to get away with softer rules using different products. I would start doing it by the books just to get your system down at first and then loosen up over time to see what I could really get away with.

Originally Posted by Nogrinia

Started my pulse of superdrol/PP at 22.5/10 mg seemed to agree well with me. 15 mg of SD about 2:30pm followed by another 7.5mg right b4 8pm workout. Great 3 hours followed by post meal,shake, and 10mg PP and fell asleep like a champ. Glad I took most of the SD early as the stims had me going pretty good for a while. Any problem with splitting up the SD dosages like this?

Hmmm, not a problem if your endocrine system lets you get away with it! You may not get a huge bounce though, just experiment a little and see I guess. I would think you could probably do it this way, but instead of 6-8wks, 4wks might be better if you split up doses like you plan to. You're kinda starting to move out of bounce territory with this a little, but it's a cool variant and maybe you're on to something!

Originally Posted by DR.D

Hmmm, not a problem if your endocrine system lets you get away with it! You may not get a huge bounce though, just experiment a little and see I guess. I would think you could probably do it this way, but instead of 6-8wks, 4wks might be better if you split up doses like you plan to. You're kinda starting to move out of bounce territory with this a little, but it's a cool variant and maybe you're on to something!

I split my SD dose (of 20mg) yesterday. 10mg at noon, and 10mg at 5pm (I also wanted to see/remember how much SD only "set me back").
Honestly, I didn't feel anything when I dosed at Noon, nor did I at 5pm. (I still took my d-bol with the 5pm dose od SD)
I DID "feel" the effects when I took 20mg at one time before working out. .....for whatever that's worth

Anyways, about the time spacing using ph's...
I have the M14ADD (diol), 30mg caps. I beleive the conversion can be settled at 10%,.. am I robbing myself by taking my 3 caps (90mg) all at one time? ... I guess what I mean is,
DO I have enough conversion enzyme to process all that (Im sure I do though) at one time?

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

What have you seen from your pulse? what are your doses?

Sorry it took so long to reply. I'm taking 30mg 4x/week. So far I've gained 6lbs- I'm not saying I received all that just from SD bc I did add alot of extra carbs an protein to my diet which I'm sure contributed alot. My strength has also went up pretty remarkably for only 14 days in the cycle. My libido is just as high as when I started.

Hey Dr.D, I just caught up with this post. I like the idea here.

I'm late to the party and haven't read the entire thread, but I'd like to contribute by saying I know Dr.D's idea here is worthy because that is how some potent immune suppressant drugs are dosed -- in pulses. Some are just taken once per week. It's considered an excellent way to avoid side effects yet still reap therapeutic effect.

Every so often I find someone who's either got a stash of M1T or has found a means of getting it. They are dead set on using it, despite having other things available. That said, I tell them to try dosing 2-3 times per week max. I honestly think with that monster you can take a single 5mg tab per week and get an appreciable and noteworthy effect without reaching that dog-**** state. I wish I still had some or I would try it myself.

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

... I guess what I mean is,
DO I have enough conversion enzyme to process all that (Im sure I do though) at one time?

I don't think your robing yourself because it's active unconverted too. I have never exceeded 60mg though so I'm not sure about the 90. Made me kind of aggressive higher than that as I remember.

Originally Posted by rhinochaser48

Hey Dr.D, I just caught up with this post. I like the idea here.

I'm late to the party and haven't read the entire thread, but I'd like to contribute by saying I know Dr.D's idea here is worthy because that is how some potent immune suppressant drugs are dosed -- in pulses. Some are just taken once per week. It's considered an excellent way to avoid side effects yet still reap therapeutic effect.

Every so often I find someone who's either got a stash of M1T or has found a means of getting it. They are dead set on using it, despite having other things available. That said, I tell them to try dosing 2-3 times per week max. I honestly think with that monster you can take a single 5mg tab per week and get an appreciable and noteworthy effect without reaching that dog-**** state. I wish I still had some or I would try it myself.

Hey rhino, where ya been my friend? Yes, immuno-suppressive corticoid therapy was my inspiration for this method in fact! Really nasty stuff like M1T could be well applied to this protocol I think just like you hypothesize.

I've been following this post for awhile and just started an Epistane pulse cycle last Tuesday. The pulse will go as follows:

Wk 1: (Tue: 10 mg/pre) (Thurs: 10 mg/pre 10 mg/post) (Saturday: 20 mg/pre 10 mg/post)

Wk 2: 20 mg/pre - 10mg/post

Wk 3: 20 mg/pre - 10mg/post

Wk 4: 20 mg/pre - 20mg/post

Wk 5: 20 mg/pre - 20mg/post

Wk 6: 30 mg/pre - 20mg/post

Wk 7: 30 mg/pre - 30mg/post

Wk 8: (Tues: 30 mg/pre - 20mg/post) (Thurs: 20mg/pre 10 mg/post) (Saturday: 10 mg/pre)

It has been about 1 1/2 years since my last cycle and I'm currently 5' 11'' 195 lbs @ 8-9% BF.

After reading through this threat I have a couple questions that have sorta been covered but, I want to confirm.

1) I'm working out 3x a week (Tue,Thurs,Sat) and for the first week I have been taking the preworkout dose around 1 hour before my workout. My workouts generally last 35-60 minutes and I have been taking the postworkout dose around 20 minutes after the workout. Dr D and anyone else who would like to comment: Do you think this dosing time period is ok or would you dose the pre earlier,post later,etc.....?

2) Also do you think the dosage(mg) amount combined with the length of the pulse ok?

I look forward to the feedback and welcome any suggestions.

LKL, that looks well planned to me and I think you'll get a high efficiency gain. You may be able to improve that yield a bit by specific modifications of those parameters, but the way you have it now is a solid starting point for certain.

This is a great tread. Thanks Dr. D.

I'm planning on doing an Epistane pulse cycle like LowKeyLifter. I've noticed some guys wanting to take a test booster on off days. My idea is to take IGF-2 from AppliedNutriceuticals on off days.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by DR.D

LKL, that looks well planned to me and I think you'll get a high efficiency gain. You may be able to improve that yield a bit by specific modifications of those parameters, but the way you have it now is a solid starting point for certain.

Thanks for the speedy feedback Dr. D! However, you got me curious now. If you don't mind, let me know what modifications you would apply here. Whenever you get a chance of course.

Originally Posted by SanClem

This is a great tread. Thanks Dr. D.

I'm planning on doing an Epistane pulse cycle like LowKeyLifter. I've noticed some guys wanting to take a test booster on off days. My idea is to take IGF-2 from AppliedNutriceuticals on off days.

What do you think?

Sounds good. I haven't tried IGF2, but I have used their cissus and creatine products and really enjoyed them.

Originally Posted by LowKeyLifter

Thanks for the speedy feedback Dr. D! However, you got me curious now. If you don't mind, let me know what modifications you would apply here. Whenever you get a chance of course.

Well, I may kick it up to 40mg by week 3 instead of waiting till week 4, for example, but that's just an efficiency thing. If your plan yields 90% maximum efficiency let's say, timing, meals, doses, etc. can add the last 5-10% but you can't really go wrong the way you have it now. You have a very solid foundation my friend and that's a good place to start as is.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Hmmm, not a problem if your endocrine system lets you get away with it! You may not get a huge bounce though, just experiment a little and see I guess. I would think you could probably do it this way, but instead of 6-8wks, 4wks might be better if you split up doses like you plan to. You're kinda starting to move out of bounce territory with this a little, but it's a cool variant and maybe you're on to something!

Yeah I was thinking more and more about it before you replied, I did this (SD/PP) on Wed. Fri. tweaked a little-took 7.5mg at 5pm & 15mg preworkout. Also upped starting does from 15/10 to 22.5/10 since I starting that class I told you about in less than 5 weeks. I figured I'll keep it right around 4 weeks so I am even more pleased to see that is your suggestion as well. Monday though, I shall try 22.5 preworkout and 10PP post and see if I get to bed alright if not, continue to experiment with slight modifications.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Sounds good. I haven't tried IGF2, but I have used their cissus and creatine products and really enjoyed them.

Ok, thanks for the input.

Hey guys new to the fourm but not the iron game.

Dr.D or anyone else for that matter can u help me out on 2 questions. I may have missed it.

My cycle is coming up and let me know if this makes sense.

Trenadrol- 4 weeks @ 60mg ED
Superdrol- Pulsed 3x week @ 20-30mg

Also Dr.D I saw that u said if u run cycle support u need a serm why is that. Maybe I have misread some of Dinoiii's stuff but I thought serms could have a neg impact on ur liver and libido.

Appericate guys

Mike

Originally Posted by UNCfan1

Hey guys new to the fourm but not the iron game.

Dr.D or anyone else for that matter can u help me out on 2 questions. I may have missed it.

My cycle is coming up and let me know if this makes sense.

Trenadrol- 4 weeks @ 60mg ED
Superdrol- Pulsed 3x week @ 20-30mg

Also Dr.D I saw that u said if u run cycle support u need a serm why is that. Maybe I have misread some of Dinoiii's stuff but I thought serms could have a neg impact on ur liver and libido.

Appericate guys

Mike

I don't think I have seen that just yet bro, but nice to see ya over here nonetheless. I might be able to think of somethin fun for you man, but it might take me some time lol.