How to "pulse" orals

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS View Post
    I can't wait to try Epi period, next cycle is going to be an 8 week bulker and i'll be including it.
    Epi is sick
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat5713 View Post
    I'm not saying this is what Dr.D means but with me I focus more on my diet while I'm on a cycle. So maybe he means that if your doing a cycle for 6 weeks instead of 3 you may be more likely to focus on your diet for a longer period of time. But then again your avatar looks perfect so it was probably leaned more towards me lol That 6 week cycle looks good, it makes me think if that's how I would rather pulse my cycle.
    I knew what he meant, I was just attempting a joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    I knew what he meant, I was just attempting a joke.
    I was laughing, crunch!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Hey Neo! Man, if you w/o 5 days a week, I'd really just run a normal cycle. That's the whole thing about pulsing, it doesn't fit well for 5, 6 or 7 training days per week. It's more for a softer training schedule like 3, 3.5 or 4 days per week.

    I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?
    Hey D, you and I talked about my planned 15 week pulse w/ P.C.T and you said it looked great, But I train 5 days a week also. I was going to use Anabolic Pump during this pulse. Would that allow me to stil see the benfits you and I discussed or should I look to a 3 day a week training schedule?

    Or should I add something like Retain & mega-dose Anagen on off pulse days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Hey D, you and I talked about my planned 15 week pulse w/ P.C.T and you said it looked great, But I train 5 days a week also. I was going to use Anabolic Pump during this pulse. Would that allow me to stil see the benfits you and I discussed or should I look to a 3 day a week training schedule?

    Or should I add something like Retain & mega-dose Anagen on off pulse days?
    Hey Distilled, I still think you're good to go with 5 days training, but you should set it up such that the training day that doesn't get dosed is easier on the recovery. Your easies w/o basically. Off days are all about recovery and increased glycogen stores are observed before androgen induced protein synthesis occurs anyway, so the AP is a good option indeed, especially with pulsing, and is sits well with Epi in particular because of it E2b receptor selectivity, as we discussed earlier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    I was laughing, crunch!
    LOL...maybe I'll try another one later!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    LOL...maybe I'll try another one later!
    Yeah do that, I leave the next one alone...I knew that
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    Hey D,

    I know you've said in the begining that running an oral in this pulsing method can allow you to avoid having to use a SERM during post cycle, but would a 2 week run be beneficial, just as a precautionary measure? Would anything else in addition to a short run of SERM be advised, such as an AI?

    Also, do you recommend using anything else in conjunction with a pulsing cycle, such as something on the off days? I'm looking to remain safe, yet still want to maximize my results and make the best of the cycle.

    Your thoughts and remarks are greatly appreciated! Great thread!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmuls View Post
    ... Also, do you recommend using anything else in conjunction with a pulsing cycle, such as something on the off days? I'm looking to remain safe, yet still want to maximize my results and make the best of the cycle. ...
    Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small PCT, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small post cycle therapy, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.
    MassFX between pulses ehh???? I really think i may switch from the form/activate combo to MassFX for my 2bridges of "off" weeks. I dont want to have to remember to apply the formestane and we my schedule I dont want to have to carry it around and do it in the open and have to answer 20 question on what im doin, why, how it works.......blah blah blah.

    So MassFX between it is, hey and Im gonna save a few bucks too......:bruce3:
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small post cycle therapy, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.

    Dr. D

    If I were to use Mass FX as a bridge, would I have to worry about running an AI as well?

    Using Epistane as the example of an 8 week pulse cycle, followed by 1 week, max of 2 weeks of a SERM (as a precautionary measure), how long should the bridge to starting another pulse cycle last?
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    Dr. D - your patience with all the questions is much appreciated.

    A few others if you don't mind:

    1. What dosing would you recommend for a Pulsing of Superdrol at a 4x/week pulse. I see the example of 3x/week above, but not 4, and am curious as to what you would recommend. My split is upper, lower, off, upper, off, lower, off, repeat.

    2. If one already has Cycle Support, how would you recommend incorporating it? Or should it be saved for a straight cycle.

    3. On a pulse cycle of SD, how much of a break would you recommend before doing it again. (Apologies if I missed that advice already).

    Thanks in advance.

    P.S. nice scripture reference.
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    I'm glad you asked all these questions bc I am eager to know also. I also have the cycle support which I started to take 2 weeks ago to get ready for this upcoming cycle, so I would also like to know the answer to that question
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    Dr. D, what do you think about running Epi, 40mg, for 8 weeks without pulsing? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else at some time, but if you could post an answer here, I'd appreciate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darius View Post
    Dr. D, what do you think about running Epi, 40mg, for 8 weeks without pulsing? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else at some time, but if you could post an answer here, I'd appreciate it.
    I say go for it. My brother (real brother, not internet bro ) is just finishing up 8 weeks. He went from 20mg week 1 to 30mg week 2, to 40mg weeks 3-8. Dr. D recommended the 20,30,40,40 and the up to 8 weeks part was a SS original. My bloodwork on Epi showed it to be very mild on the liver compared to M1t and even superdrol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier View Post
    I say go for it. My brother (real brother, not internet bro ) is just finishing up 8 weeks. He went from 20mg week 1 to 30mg week 2, to 40mg weeks 3-8. Dr. D recommended the 20,30,40,40 and the up to 8 weeks part was a SS original. My bloodwork on Epi showed it to be very mild on the liver compared to M1t and even superdrol.
    Good deal. 8 weeks it is.

    I did 20mg a week for week 1 and 2, and bumped it to 40mg as I am 1 day into week 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat5713 View Post
    I'm glad you asked all these questions bc I am eager to know also. I also have the cycle support which I started to take 2 weeks ago to get ready for this upcoming cycle, so I would also like to know the answer to that question
    Cool. Glad to help. We'll see what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darius View Post
    Good deal. 8 weeks it is.

    I did 20mg a week for week 1 and 2, and bumped it to 40mg as I am 1 day into week 3.
    let us know how your gains are coming
    stay healthy
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    my plan is 8 weeks. I am only on day 8 but started at 30mg and will probably go to 40 very soon
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    8 weeks seems a little long. I thought I read that gains start to slow down around week 5/6.
    But... any excuse to continue my current cycle...
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    Hey Doc,..

    So All this talk with pulsing, and what's fine to do... I have a few things I would like to run by you, if not for reference now, then for down the road...

    First;
    Methyl vs. non-methyl...
    There are always "better ways of doing things", as it has been mentioned that methyls would be better for this purpose, but for me, there are a few nonmethyl choices I have in stock.. What different approach in dosing time and/or dose should one follow? Would it be simular to what one would take say durring week 3 of what would be a :normal" cycle? Or would a higher dose be recommended?
    Before/after workout still apply? (and I mean quite litterally, so there might be an hour and a half between doses)
    Without bluring lines just yet, some of these choices would be (for me):
    LMG, TST, Fini,....

    Second;
    As far as designers go...
    What would you NOT recomend using?
    I might see TST as being quite pointless for a pulse application, but I do not know about LMG, Finiplex and whatever else Im missing..

    Third;
    IF non-methyls were used,.. could one perhaps do a before/after W/O dose daily? My reasoning would be since the compound is in your system for less time, perhaps you could do this, say, around 6pm/8pm...
    And IF every day is a viable option, how would this effect dosing?

    I have a few bottles of LMG, and some Fini left, that I may consider using in this fassion.... but wouldn't want to use it if it would be better applied in another way.

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Oh man, that product is a total rip IMO. I can't recommend it for anything. Even at it's highest recommended dose of 22.5mg (3 tabs/day) 4-chloro-17-etioallochol-4-ene-17-ol-3,11-dione is not going to do much of anything I don't think. This pulsing method is really better suited for methyls.
    THANKS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Focus on diet? What are you talking about???

    So, 6 weeks of superdrol, something like this:

    Week 1: 20mgs/3x/wk
    Week 2: 20 mgs
    Week 3: 30 mgs
    Week 4: 30 mgs
    Week 5: 40 mgs
    Week 6: 40 mgs

    Thanks again Dr D!!!
    this is exactly how i'm gonna do it too...seems to be a very legit way to run s-drol in a safer fasion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    this is exactly how i'm gonna do it too...seems to be a very legit way to run s-drol in a safer fasion.
    I just started mine this past Friday, we'll see how it goes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    A lot of guys have been asking me to clarify my method on this cycling technique, so here's a good explanation if you're interested in trying this. It can generally be applied to any steroidal compound.

    What is "pulse" cycling? Pulsing is a method of dosing a product designed to intentionally avoid potential long term side effects such as HPTA suppression and liver damage. This technique is usually applied as a means of toxicity control when potent corticoids are used on children requiring long term therapy. However, this method can really be applied to anyone using any oral steroid with great success and significantly reduced side effects. With pulsing, the serious, long term side effects of chronic oral treatment are avoided and short term side effect, like acne and mineral retention, are milder that usual. This also allows for higher doses to be used since the dosing is less frequent. For example, if you would normally take a product at 30mg/day for a week, that means a total intake of 210mg/week. With pulsing, you might take 40mg on work out days only 3 times per week and that only comes out to 120mg/week total! This provides the needed benefits of the product at the most crucial times, which are just before and just after a work out, and offers a means of strongly attenuated suppression of endogenous steroid production. In other words, you can pulse a compound for 6-8 weeks usually before you realistically need to start thinking about a conventional post cycle therapy. In fact, after a 4 week pulsing cycle, PCT should not even be required in most cases!

    Basically, if you dose every day (ED) in perfectly spaced doses, you will achieve 100% effect, 100% short term side effects and 100% long term side effects. If you dose every other day (EOD) like the pulse protocol, you still get about 60% effect and 75% short term sides but only about 40% of the long term sides. That's not a bad trade off and very economical on the body and the wallet too! Of course, if you would have gained 10 pounds on a normal 1 month cycle, this means you will only gain about 6 pounds pulsing, but it also means you can do this for twice as long as a normal cycle. That equals about 2 months worth of worry free dosing, so the net effect is a gain of about 12 pounds over 2 months instead of 10 pounds over 1 month. This structure offers fewer sides and a milder PCT requirements (if even needed at all) plus the slower gains tend to have a better residual that is more likely to be permanent compared to faster gains. It's a great long term strategy and good for newer users too looking to run fast, clean cycles for 1 month with no PCT needed later.

    There are two good approaches to it:
    1) EOD
    2) 2 days on / 2 days off

    Depending on your workout schedule, I would use one of these two options for optimal pulsing efficiency. Doses can usually be high (like 40-50mg instead of 20-30mg) but take them close together preferably before 6pm. It's not crucial you take the last dose before 6pm, but the earlier the better at avoiding shut down. Take half of the total dose pre work out and half post work out instead of spread out evenly over the whole day like a normal cycle. If an odd dose is to be used, like 30mg, take the majority pre work out (so 20mg pre/10mg post). When pulsing, dose at least 3 times per week but not more than 4 times.

    Also important to remember is nutrition. Have a good, high calorie post work out meal and eat sufficient protein, especially on off days. Off days are also a good time to take a cortisol antagonist or even just low dose DHEA (25-50mg) if you are a slow healer or hard gainer especially. Although pulsing is a great way to avoid suppression, if you are extra sensitive to shut down or using a compound that will normally cause very fast shut down, an AI based test booster can be administered on off days or daily to further punctuate the hormonal "bounce back" in the quest to avoid the need for PCT post cycle. The bounce back phenomenon is an effect that is often noted when pulsing. It is not uncommon for testicular size and testosterone levels to increase above baseline on consecutive off days or after the cycle is over. This is like a built in PCT effect you may experiences after properly pulsed hormone use. As a teen, I was able to employee this method successfully for 3 years without needing a PCT, so I can say it works very well! In pulsing, it is also important to remember that the smaller number of dose exposures means faster liver clearance. Normal safety ancillaries like healthy oils and lipid supplements are advised, but be modest with liver products like milk thistle. They are generally counter productive and therefore not advised while pulsing, except with very toxic or potent compounds. Cycle safe!

    Example of a 3x/wk pulse M,W,F:

    Week/Dose(mg)
    1 (10,20,30)
    2 30
    3 30-40
    4 30-40
    5 30-50
    6 30-50
    7 30-60
    8 30-60

    Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat,Sun & Wed,Thur:

    Week/Dose(mg)
    1 (10,20,30,30)
    2 30
    3 30-40
    4 30-40
    5 30-50
    6 30-50
    bad idea! too much instability in blood levels, does not make it any less toxic to the liver, theres even a dosage in there of 60mg's THEN you make a point of a possibility of no PCT. You even try calculating that you would be worse off by 4lbs, the body don't work like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    I just started mine this past Friday, we'll see how it goes!
    Good luck with it bro..started mine today.I wanted to do it with test,but i'm all about that no shutdown.Keep us updated
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    Quote Originally Posted by getreal View Post
    bad idea! too much instability in blood levels, does not make it any less toxic to the liver, theres even a dosage in there of 60mg's THEN you make a point of a possibility of no post cycle therapy. You even try calculating that you would be worse off by 4lbs, the body don't work like that.
    I can personally state that blood levels aren't all that important. When I use dbol, I take it once in the morning. This is out of convenience, not "less shutdown." Occasionally I get an upset stomach, thats the only difference than when I used to spread it out through the day.

    It is less toxic to the liver do to giving it time off from processing these compounds. Liver regenerates very quickly if given the opportunity to do so.

    Arnold didn't use pct. Many people have never even heard of it, so it isn't entirely required. It just helps, but if you read everything in this thread Dr.D explains the androgen jump on days off.

    Finally, read more, talk less. No one is forcing you to try it either. If you don't like it don't do it. Next time, if you want to discuss your concerns, try and be productive or at least use decent grammar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210 View Post
    I can personally state that blood levels aren't all that important. When I use dbol, I take it once in the morning. This is out of convenience, not "less shutdown." Occasionally I get an upset stomach, thats the only difference than when I used to spread it out through the day.

    It is less toxic to the liver do to giving it time off from processing these compounds. Liver regenerates very quickly if given the opportunity to do so.

    Arnold didn't use post cycle therapy. Many people have never even heard of it, so it isn't entirely required. It just helps, but if you read everything in this thread Dr.D explains the androgen jump on days off.

    Finally, read more, talk less. No one is forcing you to try it either. If you don't like it don't do it. Next time, if you want to discuss your concerns, try and be productive or at least use decent grammar.
    ^^^
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    This might sound like an amaturish question, but it seems most peopl will claim they pulsed dbol, as opposed t oother orals.. Aside from all the bennifits that compound brings, is there a reason it is used seemingly more (when pulsed) then others, or becasue it's just the more popular oral?...(I have read the thread about dbol as a "supplement"... )
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210 View Post
    I can personally state that blood levels aren't all that important. When I use dbol, I take it once in the morning. This is out of convenience, not "less shutdown." Occasionally I get an upset stomach, thats the only difference than when I used to spread it out through the day.

    It is less toxic to the liver do to giving it time off from processing these compounds. Liver regenerates very quickly if given the opportunity to do so.

    Arnold didn't use post cycle therapy. Many people have never even heard of it, so it isn't entirely required. It just helps, but if you read everything in this thread Dr.D explains the androgen jump on days off.

    Finally, read more, talk less. No one is forcing you to try it either. If you don't like it don't do it. Next time, if you want to discuss your concerns, try and be productive or at least use decent grammar.
    Grammar was decent enough for a poor post like this. You think it will be less toxic to the liver just because you don't spread the dosages out throught the day? don't kid yourself, your still taking the same amount . And to top it all off, it is advice coming from a doctor, looooooool!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboGiblets View Post
    This almost sounds too good to be true.

    Not doubting the legitimacy, but would you care to provide any sources so I can intelligently comment on your post?
    It would be a struggle wouldn't it lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Good luck with it bro..started mine today.I wanted to do it with test,but i'm all about that no shutdown.Keep us updated
    Thanks man! It may be harder to tell my results though, as I'm running test with it, and will be adding tren some time next week. I just remember the last time I was running test and added in the SD for the usual (10,20,30) three week cycle. I'd been on the test for several weeks, gains were coming nice and steady as always. Then the SD kicked in about week two, and bam, my deads go up by 90 freaking pounds by the end of the three weeks. I'm wanting to avoid that strength blast this time for fear of rupturing a tendon.

    Trip...are you doing only the SD??
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Thanks man! It may be harder to tell my results though, as I'm running test with it, and will be adding tren some time next week. I just remember the last time I was running test and added in the superdrol for the usual (10,20,30) three week cycle. I'd been on the test for several weeks, gains were coming nice and steady as always. Then the SD kicked in about week two, and bam, my deads go up by 90 freaking pounds by the end of the three weeks. I'm wanting to avoid that strength blast this time for fear of rupturing a tendon.

    Trip...are you doing only the SD??
    As of now yea,just the s-drol.I only have enough test for 3 weeks @500.I was mainly just gonna do the test to avoid the superdrol lethargy.I was thinking of mixing the pulse sd,epi,sd, 3 times a week,rather than just the sd.If i throw the test in i will probably do it this way...Also igf on training days 30 mcg bi-lat post wo.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by getreal View Post
    Grammar was decent enough for a poor post like this. You think it will be less toxic to the liver just because you don't spread the dosages out throught the day? don't kid yourself, your still taking the same amount . And to top it all off, it is advice coming from a doctor, looooooool!
    There are days off moron.

    Maybe your math skills aren't up to par with my 11 year old neice, but I believe 30mg 7 days a week is alot more than 30mg 3 or 4 times a week.

    And yes your body does absorb things differently based on when you take them. Food being the most obvious example, ever wonder why you can eat more closer to your workout?? Maybe because it all gets absorbed and used. Same goes for pre/post dosing schedules with orals, at least this is the idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeUP View Post
    There are days off moron.

    Maybe your math skills aren't up to par with my 11 year old neice, but I believe 30mg 7 days a week is alot more than 30mg 3 or 4 times a week.

    And yes your body does absorb things differently based on when you take them. Food being the most obvious example, ever wonder why you can eat more closer to your workout?? Maybe because it all gets absorbed and used. Same goes for pre/post dosing schedules with orals, at least this is the idea.
    I know that 30mg 3 or 4 times a week is less than 30mg everyday, that wasn't what I meant idiot. I was saying that the same dosage throughout the day is no more toxic to the liver than the same dosage applied twice per day, next time I'll draw a picture for you.

    BTW, your punctuation isn't up to par either.
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    Name calling doesn't make anybody look more intelligent -OR- get your point across any better.

    Just say'n...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    As of now yea,just the s-drol.I only have enough test for 3 weeks @500.I was mainly just gonna do the test to avoid the superdrol lethargy.I was thinking of mixing the pulse superdrol,epi,superdrol, 3 times a week,rather than just the superdrol.If i throw the test in i will probably do it this way...Also igf on training days 30 mcg bi-lat post wo.
    Oh yea...I've been doing 40 mcgs 3x/wk of IGF-1 also.
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    Name calling doesn't make anybody look more intelligent -OR- get your point across any better.

    Just say'n...

    Agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by getreal View Post
    I know that 30mg 3 or 4 times a week is less than 30mg everyday, that wasn't what I meant idiot. I was saying that the same dosage throughout the day is no more toxic to the liver than the same dosage applied twice per day, next time I'll draw a picture for you.

    BTW, your punctuation isn't up to par either.
    Why would you argue against something that no one said?? Hmm.

    Aspire:I can personally state that blood levels aren't all that important..... I take it once in the morning. This is out of convenience, not "less shutdown." Occasionally I get an upset stomach, thats the only difference than when I used to spread it out through the day.

    It is less toxic to the liver do to giving it time off from processing these compounds. Liver regenerates very quickly if given the opportunity to do so.
    Arnold didn't use post cycle therapy. Many people have never even heard of it, so it isn't entirely required. It just helps, but if you read everything in this thread Dr.D explains the androgen jump on days off.


    Now put it all together....where is he saying that by using it EVERY day as long as you SPREAD it out over the day it is less toxic??

    Puctiation need not apply if comprehension is not at hand. You should learn to read the threads and try to understand things before you post about how they are a bad idea.

    BTW, what kind of a liver doctor are you??
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeUP View Post




    where is he saying that by using it EVERY day as long as you SPREAD it out over the day it is less toxic??
    WTF? He said taking the same amounts at less intervals would be less toxic than taking the same amounts at more intervals throughout the day. Come on now shape up and get real!
  

  
 

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