How to "pulse" orals

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydesiel4651 View Post
    so far im on day 4, ive taken it every day and im deff not as puffy as normal...Dr.D- what do you think of taking epi for 3 weeks 20,30,30 then 2 weeks of torm and 3 more weeks of epi at 30,30,40. Followed by 3-4 weeks of torm, nha stack after week 1 of post cycle therapy with retain?
    Sounds like a serious plan for gyno destruction. I like it! I bit overkill for a PCT, but looks good for a gyno cycle.

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    what if you have a ph that comes in pills with 50mg? are you able to pulse that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210 View Post
    Hey Dr.D, how about something like this

    Androgen Weeks 1-4 (Pulse Method, 3x EW, WO Days)
    IGF weeks 5-10 (Workout Days Only)
    Androgen Weeks 11-14 (Pulse Again)
    IGF Weeks 15-20 (WO Days Only)

    Androgen Is probably going to be Var, Halo (real one) or Dbol (with low dose extremestane). Haven't decided yet. Torm will be run for 2 weeks after each androgen cycle, in the first 2 weeks of each igf cycle. Stats 5'7 180, ~12/13%. Few short oral cycles, couple of trans, 2 inject (one with bunk gear). Goal is come out at about 180-185@10%, basically just a recomp with a small gain that is maintainable. As little shutdown as possible. I have heard igf works better with strong androgens, so I am leaning toward halo due to minimal shutdown, great strength, hardness, aggression and possible igf receptor upregulation (brotelligence maybe?). Anyway, thanks for any input.
    No, it's not all bro, it is true about igf. It does minimize shutdown for sure. I don't think you need all that tor though, but it would hurt anything. Looks solid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeUP View Post
    So One could Puls PheraPlex 20mg on WO days 3x per week 10mg pre and 10mg post for say say...6- 8 weeks and not do a post cycle therapy and not take liver aids?

    I can't be undersanding this correctly can I?
    Yes, that is correct. Simple isn't it! I'm betting 95% of the guys here could get away with a plan like you stated. Everyone is different, so always have a plan B for PCT, but after you try it once you'll see what I mean and know what works best for you. Getting 2 consecutive off days a week and dosing close together pre and post is the real key.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboGiblets View Post
    Does anyone here think that Dbol could effectively be pulsed at like 25mg/d for a 200 pound individual, or does dbol have too many negative side effects?
    It's actually the compound I learned how to do this with. I was a kid and didn't know any better, but it worked!
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Hey D <3

    I am thinking of pulsing my cycle of EPI, I also have bulk powerful and bulk 6-OXO. I usually work out:

    M: w/o or off depending on how tired.
    T: w/o
    W: w/o
    T: off
    F: w/o
    S: w/o
    S: off ...
    Hey Neo! Man, if you w/o 5 days a week, I'd really just run a normal cycle. That's the whole thing about pulsing, it doesn't fit well for 5, 6 or 7 training days per week. It's more for a softer training schedule like 3, 3.5 or 4 days per week.

    I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Diddy View Post
    what if you have a ph that comes in pills with 50mg? are you able to pulse that?
    I'd split it in two, or else just take the whole dose pre-w/o.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    I'd split it in two, or else just take the whole dose pre-w/o.
    so 50mg would be ok? oh and also what methyls do you personally recommend that is a good candidate for pulsing besides epi?
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Diddy View Post
    so 50mg would be ok? oh and also what methyls do you personally recommend that is a good candidate for pulsing besides epi?
    They would all be workable in this protocol, as I stated earlier. It just depends on your purpose. On something really clean and non-toxic like Epi, it's great for 8wks. On something medium, like PP, 6wks is good. For something really nasty, 4wks, and so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    It's worth a shot. At IBE and some at BB guys have been posting good results on Epi pulsing logs specifically, but this will work with anything really.

    I work out so late (just ask Sub or Mace) sometimes after midnight when it's quiet and peaceful! So I break the before 6pm rule all the time. It's no biggie. Just take before 6pm IF possible. If your on a pulse, it's not quite as important. Epi on w/o days only is doing me great. I see no suppression at all. I also added 3-AD daily the w/e before last and am loving that stack!

    The 6-Br would be great for this. I have used ATD when on and it definitely attenuates shutdown. A 6-Br bases product, especially with a cAMP booster too like Hyperdrol would be perfect. Just use it at low doses, like half the label recommendation or only on off days. That should be plenty for some extra insurance. Even just 1 cap a day would probably just to be safe.

    You will need to experiment a little to see exactly what works for you and what you can and can't get away with when pulsing, but once you get the feel of it, you'll be able to cycle safe for years with much less risk of long term health complications and still get slow, steady gains. It's less extreme and hard on your body with the high ons and low offs of regular cycling. You are actually 'on' more of the time this way if you think about it, and it's just when you need it the most only.

    Your insight is much appreciated. I will give this a go at the start of next week. I like the idea of being on longer because I train for strength and I find the few cycles I have done I am able to put on some mass/weight but the cycle length time does not seem to be optimal for true strength gains. If I can work the kinks out looks like this could be a real option for me. I will post and let everyone know how it is going.

    I'm all worked up now!



    WWHHHHOOOOOOO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?
    I mix it in water, and it seems to pan out ok. I there's something in it that reacts with water, since when I mix it a light froth forms along the edges.
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    Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/SD so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gladiator_75 View Post
    So what would you say about this?

    I am 31 years old, 6 2 tall and started my 12 week cycle on January 15th. @ 243 Lbs and now I am almost done (within the last month) and this is how it was:

    Weeks

    1 12 sustanon @ 500mg EW
    1 12 proviron @ 25 mg ED
    1 6 Dbol @ 40 mg ED
    6 12 HCG @ 500IU EW

    post cycle therapy will start 2 week after last test injection & will be a basic Nolvadex 40 40 20 20 20 20 and I do have clomid on hand just in case but I would rather not use clomid unless I will need to keep sides down!

    Now, I want to take Dbol from now till the end of my cycle and all the way up to the post cycle therapy especially that the Dbol have a very short half life!

    So, can I use the pulse method to take the Dbol from now till the end of my cycle and up to the post cycle therapy (on the gym days only, which is 4 days/week or max. 5 days). I work out on a 2 days on 1 day off bases and depending on how I feel I can go for a 3rd day on a roll but not more than 3 days without a day off.

    Do you guys think that this will be an over kill to my liver to use the Dbol again from now till the post cycle therapy? And if it is ok to use it, what dosage are we talking about? Keeping in mind that I toke 40mg ED for the first 6 weeks.

    Can the pulse method work in this case?

    Thanks for the help in advance

    P.S: I do take Milk thistle along with other suppl. Do you think i should stop taking it coz it Dramatically decrese the gains!

    Gladiator_75
    Any feedback Dr. D ?

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    Very cool and interesting stuff Dr D!!!

    I was going to run SD for three weeks before my next comp, but am most worried about such a rapid increase in strength I get from it that injuries are possible. I am now 6 weeks away and could pulse it with your protocol, get the strength, and not be so worried about rupturing any tendons (again!).
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat5713 View Post
    Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/superdrol so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!
    I'm in the same boat as you. I workout 6 days a week. That's why I'm looking at this 4 day routine, the good doctor provided in the original post:

    Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat,Sun & Wed,Thur:

    Week/Dose(mg)
    1 (10,20,30,30)
    2 30
    3 30-40
    4 30-40
    5 30-50
    6 30-50
    The only change I might make is not to go over 30 mg per day. Again, I have no idea what I'm going to do, just trying to gather all info I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yes, that is correct. Simple isn't it! I'm betting 95% of the guys here could get away with a plan like you stated. Everyone is different, so always have a plan B for post cycle therapy, but after you try it once you'll see what I mean and know what works best for you. Getting 2 consecutive off days a week and dosing close together pre and post is the real key.
    Ok, well what about this.

    I was going to stack SuperDrol and PheraPlex

    My ratios are 2.5mg SD and 7.5mg PP 2x /d

    SO Could I pulse this instead and run it out 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Run Torm for PCT and the NHA stack and be fine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPM View Post
    I'm in the same boat as you. I workout 6 days a week. That's why I'm looking at this 4 day routine, the good doctor provided in the original post:



    The only change I might make is not to go over 30 mg per day. Again, I have no idea what I'm going to do, just trying to gather all info I can.
    Yeah thats what I'm thinking about(30mg for 3 of the days maybe 40 and then ony 20mg for the 4th day) that way maybe it would be alright to do an 8 weeker
    Last edited by gymrat5713; 03-23-2007 at 12:22 PM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Hey Neo! Man, if you w/o 5 days a week, I'd really just run a normal cycle. That's the whole thing about pulsing, it doesn't fit well for 5, 6 or 7 training days per week. It's more for a softer training schedule like 3, 3.5 or 4 days per week.

    I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?
    I think I'll do four days a week then. the Powerfull is water soluble but man oh man what an f'n taste blewgh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyfats View Post
    Are there any orals that you would advise against when pulsing?
    I wouldn't pulse M1T personally. Here's some labwork showing almost complete shutdown within 3 days...
    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier View Post
    THIS IS YOUR LIVER ON METHYL-1-TEST!!!
    I started a cycle of Legal Gear M1T only, 20mg/day (1tab approx. every 12 hours)

    12/24/03 Blood drawn about 7.5 hours after ingestion of first tab, 25 min. after (a rather ****ty) chest and bicep workout. (All units of measurement will be listed on this post only) Total Bilirubin 1.2 mg/dl; Direct Bilirubin 0.2 mg/dl; ALP 79 IU/L; GGT16 IU/L; LD 192 IU/L; AST 52 IU/L (high, normal:15-41); ALT 49 IU/L; (end liver) Cholesterol 105mg/dL; Triglycerides 27mg/dl; Testosterone 436.77 ng/dl; Estradiol 43.18 pg/ml; LH 3.18 mIU/mL; FSH 0.64 mIU/ml; Progesterone 0.59 ng/ml; Prolactin 17.01 ng/ml ( up from 6.86 on 12/17) WBC 7.78 K/uL; RBC 5.56 M/uL; HCT 49.6-51.1 (ran twice, pretty high but it was the same on 12/12 when I was off cycle)

    12/26/03 Day 3 Blood drawn about 11 hours after dosing, 5 hours after half a leg workout (I attempted to start OVT(Christian Thibadeau) today, squat's and lunges were incredible, strength was great, pump was sick, I got to one-legged back extensions, and I don't know if I was using poor form or if it was the M1T because I've been doing these for a while now with great success, but my lower back started hurting like a motherfu#@$% and I felt really lightheaded and naucious, so I stopped after three sets, there was no way I could deadlift so I went home) Anyway, Total Bilirubin 1.0; Direct Bilirubin 0.2; ALP 64; GGT 13; LD 229(high, norm 98-192); AST 57(higher); ALT 54; Cholesterol 80; Triglycerides 7; Testosterone 39.10 (it's working); Estradiol 6.9 ; LH 0.57, FSH 0.60; Progesterone 0.70; Prolactin 11.33; PSA 0.39 ng/ml; WBC 12.4; RBC 5.77; HCT 51.2

    Well after 3 days I am definitely suppressed. What I find most interesting though, is that my WBC count went from 7.78 to 12.4 in three days. So either I caught something or there is definitely some truth to the "1-test flu". As far as the liver is concerned, levels are elevated but only slightly. My liver enzymes were WAY higher than this on T1-Pro, but that was a couple of weeks into my first cycle. I'll give it some time. Also I'll try to draw my next sample at 1 hour after dosing, to see if that makes a difference. But if my liver stays normal, than 60mg here i come!!!(J/K )
    M1T methinks is an extreme case with any side(s) compared to just about any other oral.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymrat5713 View Post
    Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/superdrol so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!
    I'm always glad to help. You guys have been great for me and taught me a lot too so it's always my pleasure.

    I talked with another guy doing something similar to you. He trained 5 days a weeks but was going to skip dosing on the 5'th day, but 4 doses are still workable in your case. Taking a smaller dose on the 4'th day is exactly the kind of innovative thinking it takes to make the most of pulsing! After awhile, you may find that you can take that last dose in full no problem, but at first, be conservative. The whole point is to get that extra boost while avoiding PCT, so your plan sounds like you're on the right track for sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gladiator_75 View Post
    Any feedback Dr. D ?

    Daily use would be better heading into PCT. The dbol @ 40mg is nothing on your liver compared to 40mg Nolva! I would not use MT until PCT starts, then use in the first 3wks of Nolva dosing. Pulsing is bad news if you're headed into a PCT at the end of a long cycle and very suppressed.

    NOW, if the hCG has kept you bouncing and your test levels are still pretty good, pulsing to the end would be just fine. It's an executive call really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Very cool and interesting stuff Dr D!!!

    I was going to run superdrol for three weeks before my next comp, but am most worried about such a rapid increase in strength I get from it that injuries are possible. I am now 6 weeks away and could pulse it with your protocol, get the strength, and not be so worried about rupturing any tendons (again!).
    Yes! The gains are slower, but they are more permanent long term with fewer tendencies toward injury. You got it man. Plus, it makes you really focus on your diet too, where you may have otherwise been a little sloppy, I mean not you specifically CRUNCH, but other people I know (like me!) lol
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    HEY NOW! just because i have an occasional pizza, no need to publicly call me out! LOL!

    aren't you suppossed to be working on some new AX product? 3 BE or something like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeUP View Post
    Ok, well what about this.

    I was going to stack SuperDrol and PheraPlex

    My ratios are 2.5mg superdrol and 7.5mg PP 2x /d

    SO Could I pulse this instead and run it out 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Run Torm for post cycle therapy and the NHA stack and be fine?
    Yeah, that sounds good actually. I would have just taken 10mg PP pre and 10mg SD post, but your ratio sounds nice.

    Your PCT sounds OK too, but 7-10d Tor would be plenty. You don't need conventional PCTs with this protocol. Once you experience "the bounce" you'll know what I mean!
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier View Post
    I wouldn't pulse M1T personally. Here's some labwork showing almost complete shutdown within 3 days...
    M1T methinks is an extreme case with any side(s) compared to just about any other oral.
    Man, that's a trip on the WBC counts. "Poison with anabolic effects", isn't that what you called it one time? lol
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    I think this will be good for those that are concerned with side effects, personally though i'd like 100% effect even if the sides are higher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macedaddy View Post
    HEY NOW! just because i have an occasional pizza, no need to publicly call me out! LOL!

    aren't you suppossed to be working on some new AX product? 3 BE or something like that?

    Haha, I'll get back to work as soon as I finish MY pizza!
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    Sorry to add to an increasingly large (and very valuable) thread but I had a few questions about this method for when you have some time (no rush)...

    You talk about dbol being what you first used this with. Probably a stupid question, but I assume you were using test also? So like test for 12ish weeks and pulse dbol for 6-8 of them and then run post cycle therapy after the test? I have never used gear before (just began my first ever superdrol cycle) and this looks like a great way for me to start... after a few more months of research of course!

    Also when you mention using the compound 3x a week for this method to be efficient... thats not the same for workouts correct? i.e. you can lift 5x a week but as long as you only use the gear on 3 of those workouts (switch between which workouts you use it on each week) then you're in the clear?

    Lastly, would this method work good for Superdrol? I wasn't sure because with the cycle I just started, its been about 4 days and I still dont see any gains. It seems like if you only use it 3x a week then it will never have a chance to build up and therefore the gains would never come (or come extremely slowly). But I'm new to all of this and thats why its so useful to ask an expert like you!
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to supersoldier again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPS View Post
    I think this will be good for those that are concerned with side effects, personally though i'd like 100% effect even if the sides are higher.
    You're at that age where I can understand what you mean! You're not young and overly cautious anymore but you're certainly not old and worried about accumulating toxicity, so why pulse? Plus, sometimes you just want maximum gains. It does work, but I agree with you that it doesn't suit everyone in all situations.
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    Isnt the 10/10 of PP and SD too little for pulsing? I remember reading that in a pulse it would be advantageous to dose higher since its only 3 times a week. I can see 10/10 working for a few days as suggested but after the first week would you want to signficantly kick that up? Just really curious as I just finished a PP cycle and at 30mg ED for 3 weeks I hardly noticed a change, I couldnt imagine only take 10-20 EOD.
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    One thing i'm still not understanding regarding pulsing orals is the fluctuating blood levels with compounds with short half lives (which is most orla). People seem to think that fluctuating blood levels contribute to certain side effects. Dr. D whats your take on fluctuating blood levels regarding pulsing orals. Also how much different would your answer be if the person was using test during the oral as well so maybe the levels wouldn't fluctuate as much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTL View Post
    Isnt the 10/10 of PP and superdrol too little for pulsing? I remember reading that in a pulse it would be advantageous to dose higher since its only 3 times a week. I can see 10/10 working for a few days as suggested but after the first week would you want to signficantly kick that up? Just really curious as I just finished a PP cycle and at 30mg ED for 3 weeks I hardly noticed a change, I couldnt imagine only take 10-20 EOD.
    You are right. I would likely do 20/10 in this scenario because I like 2:1 with PP/SD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gators52 View Post
    One thing i'm still not understanding regarding pulsing orals is the fluctuating blood levels with compounds with short half lives (which is most orla). People seem to think that fluctuating blood levels contribute to certain side effects. Dr. D whats your take on fluctuating blood levels regarding pulsing orals. Also how much different would your answer be if the person was using test during the oral as well so maybe the levels wouldn't fluctuate as much.
    That's the whole thing though. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The human body tries to balance the equation with endocrine cycles. Hormones go up, hormones go down, but they are never "steady". Just like a well pump cycles on when the pressure gets too low and cuts off when it reaches a programmed level, so does your test level. What the pulse does is cause a sudden, false high. When you are off the next day, you get a distinct, false low that the body response too very rapidly such that your test level bounces. Often ending higher that where it started. It is the fluctuation that allows this method to work because while steady state levels are more anabolic, they are also deeply suppressive. Try it man, then you'll see what I mean. You never know till you try!
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    I'm going to try this with Dianabol when I'm ready to lift heavy again. I'll lift on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'll take between 20-50mg of Dianabol on my training days and maybe a half dose on Saturday. How does that sound?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yes! The gains are slower, but they are more permanent long term with fewer tendencies toward injury. You got it man. Plus, it makes you really focus on your diet too, where you may have otherwise been a little sloppy, I mean not you specifically CRUNCH, but other people I know (like me!) lol
    Focus on diet? What are you talking about???

    So, 6 weeks of superdrol, something like this:

    Week 1: 20mgs/3x/wk
    Week 2: 20 mgs
    Week 3: 30 mgs
    Week 4: 30 mgs
    Week 5: 40 mgs
    Week 6: 40 mgs

    Thanks again Dr D!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUNCH View Post
    Focus on diet? What are you talking about???

    So, 6 weeks of superdrol, something like this:

    Week 1: 20mgs/3x/wk
    Week 2: 20 mgs
    Week 3: 30 mgs
    Week 4: 30 mgs
    Week 5: 40 mgs
    Week 6: 40 mgs

    Thanks again Dr D!!!
    I'm not saying this is what Dr.D means but with me I focus more on my diet while I'm on a cycle. So maybe he means that if your doing a cycle for 6 weeks instead of 3 you may be more likely to focus on your diet for a longer period of time. But then again your avatar looks perfect so it was probably leaned more towards me lol That 6 week cycle looks good, it makes me think if that's how I would rather pulse my cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    You're at that age where I can understand what you mean! You're not young and overly cautious anymore but you're certainly not old and worried about accumulating toxicity, so why pulse? Plus, sometimes you just want maximum gains. It does work, but I agree with you that it doesn't suit everyone in all situations.
    Ya i'm wreckless, bring on the orals! lol j/k Ya you described me to a T actually, lol Your like a minature budha, ol
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    Dr.D IS buddah... at least thats what I heard....


    I can't wait to try pulsing- with either promagnon or epi within the next few months!
    Get your FREE RIPPED GUIDE

    www.newstarathletics.com/rippedfree
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    I can't wait to try Epi period, next cycle is going to be an 8 week bulker and i'll be including it.
  

  
 

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