How to "pulse" orals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    I second that....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickeepoo1 View Post
    I second that....
    all of a sudden i feel really smart!! Save the ebonics for the hood...
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    I am considering pulsing Turinbol at a low dose 10-20mg/day...

    What about pulsing with something like clomid on the off days?

    Has anyone tried that or staying on the SERM the whole time they pulsed?

    -Even if it is not 100% needed, I am thinking it couldn't hurt.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smc252 View Post
    I am considering pulsing Turinbol at a low dose 10-20mg/day...

    What about pulsing with something like clomid on the off days?

    Has anyone tried that or staying on the SERM the whole time they pulsed?

    -Even if it is not 100% needed, I am thinking it couldn't hurt.?
    bump to this question for Dr. D. I would like to know this too because it seems none of the logs ive seen show anyone using serm during the pulse.
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    I just wanted to mention, that I HAD this 3AD pulse worked out in my head, -the Doc said it looked good, but, I beleive he was runnign it slightly different; where I took anabolic doses one day, and non anabolic doses the next for its other effects...

    SO, since 3AD i shaving a little trouble now, I thought Id try it with Havoc.
    I take 10mg on my off days (for improved cardio I guess :P) and EoD, I bump it to:
    20mg Havoc
    60mg M14ADD (dbol)
    and ~ 7-15 mg Phera

    I am aware that this si a lot of methyl,.. but Im tring to finish things up here....

    But I'd like to not that at the end of this week, I still come back the same, and do not feel any more supressed then "normal" fo rthe pulse type cycle.

    I very much beleive that My dosing has played a HUGE part in this, as do the compounds I chose.

    20mg epi & Phera 1 hour before workout.
    dbol directly after workout.

    I think the LH increase that epi brings, combined with the LATER dosing of bdol (which really seems to increase LH more so then epi) in the evening leave more of the anti-e effect for when Im going to bed, and helps with the rebound effect.

    I beleive this is my last week pulsing. Results have been results,.. not in the neiborhood of what some of you guys out there have expirenced, like 4-6 pounds in a week
    I'll be happy to get 4-6lbs out of the whole thing.

    Anyways, I always take weekends off- well, that is, Friday and Saturday.

    Just thought I'd share with ya'll. I'll post later in the results thread.
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    To anyone who hasx pulsed i am in week six and my gains stopped in week 3. i gained 10 pounds the first 3 weeks and now i have just flatlined anyone had a similar experience or know what is going on thanks
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    Usuyally only one of two things

    Adjust training, or diet.

    If your getting leaner, up your food.
    or...Go heavier on the weights, less reps.

    10lbs is pretty good.

    I would think for another week, up your diet noticably, and see what happens. Spend the last week cutting if you cant gain.. it being summer and all
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    ok i was looking to run epistane 8 weeks 20,30,40,40,40,40,40,40 and wanted to use 3-ad with it but seeing as 11-oxo is available i wanted to use that instead at 225 2x a day for 8.my question is should i even bother with 11-oxo..it this too low a dose? this is of course a pulse eod
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojo View Post
    ok i was looking to run epistane 8 weeks 20,30,40,40,40,40,40,40 and wanted to use 3-ad with it but seeing as 11-oxo is available i wanted to use that instead at 225 2x a day for 8.my question is should i even bother with 11-oxo..it this too low a dose? this is of course a pulse eod
    Someone just posted in the supplement thread about 11-OXO, he is 9 days in and is having great results. He is not pulsing it but still having good results. U may want to pulse the Epi and run the other thru out.

    I believe Mace is pulsing SD and running 3AD thru out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNCfan1 View Post
    Someone just posted in the supplement thread about 11-OXO, he is 9 days in and is having great results. He is not pulsing it but still having good results. U may want to pulse the Epi and run the other thru out.

    I believe Mace is pulsing superdrol and running 3AD thru out.
    ah forget it,as soon as i posted this i found 2 bottles of max lmg in my cabinet i thought i tossed..gonna throw that in with epistane instead

    prob do 30mgs of epi and 20 mgs of lmg for 8 weels eod pulsed..hopefully 3-ad will be available by the time im ready to pulse again
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    Quote Originally Posted by smc252 View Post
    I am considering pulsing Turinbol at a low dose 10-20mg/day...

    What about pulsing with something like clomid on the off days?

    Has anyone tried that or staying on the SERM the whole time they pulsed?

    -Even if it is not 100% needed, I am thinking it couldn't hurt.?
    Bump for this post... I was thinking about this same question
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboGiblets View Post
    Hey Dr. D,

    I am about to embark on an Oral Turinadrol and Havoc pulse. Would Advanced post cycle therapy from AX be sufficient for post cycle therapy afterwards, or should I still use torem?
    Never tried the OT, but Havoc started to shut me down in 2wks of a straight cycle. Advanced P.C.T. is stronger than you might think, it would probably be fine for Havoc on a pulse, but having the tor on hand just in case is the safest bet for certain.

    I think what I'm going to try next is running Advanced P.C.T. as my actual cycle/test booster and pulsing an oral with it just to fortify w/o days. That should eliminate any pct requirements afterward, especially if I use something like Epi that doesn't shut me down that fast in the first place. I will let you guys know how it works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlad878 View Post
    ... ps wut % of gains after a pulsing cycle is over u think a user could retain roughly 70% mabey?
    If you keep training consistently and eating properly, you keep most all of it after a good pulse, especially relative to what you'd expect to retain after a regular cycle.

    It's hard to put an actual percent on it, but 70% is not an unreasonable prediction. It just depends on many factors, not just genetic disposition but years of training and level of conditioning and lifestyle factors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smc252 View Post
    I am considering pulsing Turinbol at a low dose 10-20mg/day...

    What about pulsing with something like clomid on the off days?

    Has anyone tried that or staying on the SERM the whole time they pulsed?

    -Even if it is not 100% needed, I am thinking it couldn't hurt.?
    An AI or a short acting SERM like raloxifene would be perfect on off days, but a SERM like Clomid with a long half-life it not optimally appropriate. I have never tried it, but theoretically you could take a dose of Clomid every 4-5 days while pulsing, but more often than that would really not be required.

    If you do decide to add a long acting SERM on off days (meaning 3-4x/wk) then I do suggest adding liver support back into that pulse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy View Post
    ... Results have been results,.. not in the neiborhood of what some of you guys out there have expirenced, like 4-6 pounds in a week
    I'll be happy to get 4-6lbs out of the whole thing.

    Anyways, I always take weekends off- well, that is, Friday and Saturday.

    Just thought I'd share with ya'll. I'll post later in the results thread.
    You have really excelled at this X, I too thought you would have gotten a higher yield with as good as you seemed to grasp this idea, but the true measure of success is not how much you gain but how much you keep. I bet you hold those 4-6lbs, which would not be bad for a guy like you already at a high level of training. Also, it's nice when your balls don't have to go on extended vacations anymore. Don't give up on the pulse!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojo View Post
    ok i was looking to run epistane 8 weeks 20,30,40,40,40,40,40,40 and wanted to use 3-ad with it but seeing as 11-oxo is available i wanted to use that instead at 225 2x a day for 8.my question is should i even bother with 11-oxo..it this too low a dose? this is of course a pulse eod
    I agree with UNC, take the 11-oxo daily while you pulse the Epi. It's not just an anabolic but a good anti-catabolic for off days. 225mg/d may be sufficient for at least the anti-catabolic benefits, if not the anabolic effects.

    In my alpha trials with 3AD, I noted excellent anti-catabolic activity at higher doses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojo View Post
    ah forget it,as soon as i posted this i found 2 bottles of max lmg in my cabinet i thought i tossed..gonna throw that in with epistane instead

    prob do 30mgs of epi and 20 mgs of lmg for 8 weels eod pulsed..hopefully 3-ad will be available by the time im ready to pulse again


    Yes, hopefully!
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    Hello Doctor, hope all is well...

    I have a very basic question about pulsing and apologize in advance if this has already been covered.

    In theory, most orals have short half-lives, almost always under 1 day. So taking orals on training days makes sense, in theory. However, all users notice that for orals to kick in (if they are used daily, not talking about pulsing) at least a week or two is needed. Now, how can it take up to 2 weeks for an oral to kick in if the half-life is only hours or a day at best? It doesn't make sense. I don;t know the answer to this but something is going on which invalidates the "they stay in your system for a day or less" theory.

    That being the case, do you think one would potentially never allow the oral steroid to build up in his system while pulsing and thus miss out on the greatest benefit?

    Thanks

    Sub7
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    Hey Dr. D, you got me going again. It seems like every year you keep coming up with something interesting to challenge and help me.

    I'm on my second day of pulsing Epi. Today I went up to 30mg at 20 + 10. Along with some heavy HS machine Triceps Pushdowns for a new PR of 6 reps at 575 lbs, I also upped my rack extensions by 30 lbs and hit 3 reps @ 330 lbs. My old PR @ 300 lbs went by so smooth and easy that I was amazed. This Pulsing is an ideal approach for us old farts and especially with something like Epi. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Hello Doctor, hope all is well...

    I have a very basic question about pulsing and apologize in advance if this has already been covered.

    In theory, most orals have short half-lives, almost always under 1 day. So taking orals on training days makes sense, in theory. However, all users notice that for orals to kick in (if they are used daily, not talking about pulsing) at least a week or two is needed. Now, how can it take up to 2 weeks for an oral to kick in if the half-life is only hours or a day at best? It doesn't make sense. I don;t know the answer to this but something is going on which invalidates the "they stay in your system for a day or less" theory.

    That being the case, do you think one would potentially never allow the oral steroid to build up in his system while pulsing and thus miss out on the greatest benefit?

    Thanks

    Sub7
    Yes and no. Methyls average ~6hrs on the half-life, so dosing 3-4x/day is required for steady state and thus 100% anabolic effeciency, this is true, but it is a popular misconception that orals take weeks to kick it. They start immediately, but it may require weeks to observe the cumulative effect. This method only yields about 60% effeciency, but that's the nature of the method and also the reason that you don't have nearly as many sides (because steady state is never achieved) so it just depends on your priorities. If you want the max gain ASAP, then run a regular cycle with a strong PCT. If you are already at an advanced level of training (or a newb) then pulsing may be something you'd like to try a few times to see if it's for you.
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    Hey D, I sent u a PM. I hope u see it. Anyway I guess I could post it here.

    I dropped back to 3x a week and was going to extend the cycle 3 more weeks. What do u think about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Hey Dr. D, you got me going again. It seems like every year you keep coming up with something interesting to challenge and help me.

    I'm on my second day of pulsing Epi. Today I went up to 30mg at 20 + 10. Along with some heavy HS machine Triceps Pushdowns for a new PR of 6 reps at 575 lbs, I also upped my rack extensions by 30 lbs and hit 3 reps @ 330 lbs. My old PR @ 300 lbs went by so smooth and easy that I was amazed. This Pulsing is an ideal approach for us old farts and especially with something like Epi. Thanks.
    How have you been Dutch?! Good to hear from you again and glad you're already enjoying positive results. Those are some impressive numbers my friend. And yes, pulsing a prostate friendly compound is well suited for us old tymers indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNCfan1 View Post
    Hey D, I sent u a PM. I hope u see it. Anyway I guess I could post it here.

    I dropped back to 3x a week and was going to extend the cycle 3 more weeks. What do u think about that?
    That sounds fine. Sorry about the back-log UNC. I'll check my PM's, review your specifics, and get back at you with a plan.
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    i have a question, on days off of training are you recommending the more androgenc compound taken in the am and the more anabolic compound in the pm like on training days? ex . i am taking max lmg with epistane right now so i would be taking 20 mgs of emax in the am and 30 of epistane pm..or just divide it up like usual and spread it out before 6 pm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    That sounds fine. Sorry about the back-log UNC. I'll check my PM's, review your specifics, and get back at you with a plan.
    No problem D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojo View Post
    i have a question, on days off of training are you recommending the more androgenc compound taken in the am and the more anabolic compound in the pm like on training days? ex . i am taking max lmg with epistane right now so i would be taking 20 mgs of emax in the am and 30 of epistane pm..or just divide it up like usual and spread it out before 6 pm?
    Are u taking the Epi everyday? If so I would take the Emax in the morn and spread the Epi out.
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    nope this a pulse of both compunds
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    Quote Originally Posted by wojo View Post
    nope this a pulse of both compunds
    Then take them both on training days. Emax before training 1-2 hrs and Epi afterwards. Have u started? How do u like them? I am really liking the Emax/SD pulse alot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    An AI or a short acting SERM like raloxifene would be perfect on off days, but a SERM like Clomid with a long half-life it not optimally appropriate. I have never tried it, but theoretically you could take a dose of Clomid every 4-5 days while pulsing, but more often than that would really not be required.

    If you do decide to add a long acting SERM on off days (meaning 3-4x/wk) then I do suggest adding liver support back into that pulse.
    If one were to take a longer acting serm (clomid,nolvadex) once every 4-days what should dosing look like?
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    PCT after a Pulse


    If someone is pulsing MWF, on what day should they begin PCT? It would seem to me that continuing the on cycle support supps through Sat. and Sun. following the last day of dosing, and then starting up PCT on Mon. would make sense, but I am not sure. Or should PCT be ramped up through the weekend?

    Example: Last day of dosing is Friday. Taking Restore on off days, so continue Restore on Sat. and Sun. Begin PCT with 6-oxo & DHEA on Monday with a ramp up of the 6-oxo over 2-3 weeks of PCT.

    Is this the best way to do it, or is the method dependent upon the substances being used?

    Thanks to all for the input.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    If someone is pulsing MWF, on what day should they begin post cycle therapy? It would seem to me that continuing the on cycle support supps through Sat. and Sun. following the last day of dosing, and then starting up PCT on Mon. would make sense, but I am not sure. Or should PCT be ramped up through the weekend?

    Example: Last day of dosing is Friday. Taking Restore on off days, so continue Restore on Sat. and Sun. Begin PCT with 6-oxo & DHEA on Monday with a ramp up of the 6-oxo over 2-3 weeks of PCT.

    Is this the best way to do it, or is the method dependent upon the substances being used?

    Thanks to all for the input.

    It seems to me that this has been beatn' to death in this thread. Try to DAFS in here first.
    You should be fine with Restore... and theorticly, no/minimum PCT is used.. AT THE END.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    If someone is pulsing MWF, on what day should they begin post cycle therapy? It would seem to me that continuing the on cycle support supps through Sat. and Sun. following the last day of dosing, and then starting up PCT on Mon. would make sense, but I am not sure. Or should PCT be ramped up through the weekend?

    Example: Last day of dosing is Friday. Taking Restore on off days, so continue Restore on Sat. and Sun. Begin PCT with 6-oxo & DHEA on Monday with a ramp up of the 6-oxo over 2-3 weeks of PCT.

    Is this the best way to do it, or is the method dependent upon the substances being used?

    Thanks to all for the input.

    Good question, I'd like to know as well !
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPM View Post
    Good question, I'd like to know as well !
    REALLY?

    I wasnty being sarcastic here.
    YOU DO PCT AT THE END... it doesn't matter what day you end it on... Monday, Wednesday, OR Friday.
    Your taking your support sups on the off days..
    So , you also take them the next day after your last pulse day like you have been doing the 6-8 weeks before.

    All this has already been discussed in the first few pages of this thread
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    Example: Last day of dosing is Friday. Taking Restore on off days, so continue Restore on Sat. and Sun. Begin post cycle therapy with 6-oxo & DHEA on Monday with a ramp up of the 6-oxo over 2-3 weeks of PCT.

    Start your 6 oxo and DHEA (although you shouldn't really need DHEA, the fact that it IS an exogenous hormone aside) Sat along with your Restore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy View Post
    Example: Last day of dosing is Friday. Taking Restore on off days, so continue Restore on Sat. and Sun. Begin post cycle therapy with 6-oxo & DHEA on Monday with a ramp up of the 6-oxo over 2-3 weeks of post cycle therapy.

    Start your 6 oxo and DHEA (although you shouldn't really need DHEA, the fact that it IS an exogenous hormone aside) Sat along with your Restore.
    Sorry if I missed this topic earlier in the thread. I read a great deal of it awhile back and have not been back into it since. I'll rehash it.

    That said, why start the 6-oxo on Sat. and take the Restore for 2 more days as well? Would I not be double dipping on the estrogen control?

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EctoPower View Post
    Sorry if I missed this topic earlier in the thread. I read a great deal of it awhile back and have not been back into it since. I'll rehash it.

    That said, why start the 6-oxo on Sat. and take the Restore for 2 more days as well? Would I not be double dipping on the estrogen control?

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
    Personally, I dont feel you would need the 6-0x0.
    But I am also assuming your bottle of Restore is opened since you have been takign it on OFF days... so Im just saying, your PCT doesnt have to be AS strong had you been ON cycle. So...
    Takign a week with the Restore (if thats what you had left) and the 6-oxo shouldnt be a problem.
    Takign the two together doesnt present any problems other then any libido issued you may get from ATD.

    Double dipping, is kind arelitive anyways. Say who? There are perfectly acceptable PCT products and AI's out there that use more estro control then the two conbined.
    It would be like a slightly less effective NHA stack.

    You could probably just use the Restore,... but Im guessing you spent a pretty penny on the 6-oxo
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    Dr. D,
    Really appreciate all the great info you are putting out.
    I have a box of Sustevol (mix of Halodrol, Superdrol and PheraPlex) lying around that I really am hesitant to use in a straight cycle, due to the high hepa -toxicity of three stacked methyls. Would this be manageable used in a pulsed cycle? If so how would you implement it? (It breaks down to 43mg per capsule). Also, any thoughts on Novedex XT on off days?

    Thanks in advance.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    If one were to take a longer acting serm (clomid,nolvadex) once every 4-days what should dosing look like?
    I've never tried it so not sure. I'd say maybe 100mg Clom, 40mg Tam or 90mg Tor per dose as a starting point, you will reach steady state in 16-20 days for all practical purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    Dr. D,
    Really appreciate all the great info you are putting out.
    I have a box of Sustevol (mix of Halodrol, Superdrol and PheraPlex) lying around that I really am hesitant to use in a straight cycle, due to the high hepa -toxicity of three stacked methyls. Would this be manageable used in a pulsed cycle? If so how would you implement it? (It breaks down to 43mg per capsule). Also, any thoughts on Novedex XT on off days?

    Thanks in advance.......
    I have never used either product, so I am not sure, but it would be a legitimate candidate for pulsing due to it's potentially high toxicity which could be greatly minimized. Start with 1 dose and go to 2 if it feels ok or you don't respond to one. NXT on off days would probably not be a bad idea, but again I don't know what it is, I assume a test booster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    NXT on off days would probably not be a bad idea, but again I don't know what it is, I assume a test booster.
    Hey D, Novedex XT is ATD, 3-OHAT, and 3,5,7-trihydroxy-4-methoxyflavone. I'm not sure what that last ingredient really is, however.
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