Epistane increases LH?

[Hyde12]

The ad for epistane says that it keeps LH elevated, how can this be true if you get shutdown? If the brain is still sending out LH to the testes then Epistane will not shut down at all.

 

[same_old]

i'm interested too....

but btw, if epistane is compelling the HPTA to produce LH, it could still suppress LHRH, which comes before LH.

i'm interested in hearing the answer, still.

 

[Hyde12]

bump

 

[mmowry]

Well I believe that it raises LH initialy but Ill see what LMD and/or DR.D have to say on it.

 

[Hyde12]

Im thinking about jumping on the epistane bandwagon and PCT with Raloxifene (never tried ralox). Someone over at BN said that they are using Epi during PCT! That sounds crazy!

 

[bioman]

Typically, LH surges are a short lived phenomena as they rapidly downregulate one or more pathways. IF Epi could actually keep high sustained levels for a period of a few weeks...THAT would be pretty groovy. Might explain the good mood/libido experiences many are reporting.

 

[mmowry]

There is a pct protocol using Epi for its anti E effects in pct.Its in our forum heres a link The Epistane PCT Thread: Are you doing it right? - IBE Forums Version 2.0 Beta

 

[DR.D]

Im thinking about jumping on the epistane bandwagon and post cycle therapy with Raloxifene (never tried ralox). Someone over at BN said that they are using Epi during PCT! That sounds crazy!

Epi is a steroidal SERM that binds selectively to E2-beta receptors. It elevates LH levels initially. After constant, low level doses, the resulting test boost will increase E2 levels and promote shutdown though and if higher doses are used (like 20mg and over) the androgenic properties overcome the SERM effect on HPTA and may cause direct shutdown, but at an attenuated rate proportionate to dose. Theoretically therefore, 10mg of Epi used EOD (like on w/o days only) during PCT would only improve recovery while providing a little extra anabolism and nil toxicity!

 

[same_old]

Epi is a steroidal SERM that binds selectively to E2-beta receptors. It elevates LH levels initially. After constant, low level doses, the resulting test boost will increase E2 levels and promote shutdown though and if higher doses are used (like 20mg and over) the androgenic properties overcome the SERM effect on HPTA and may cause direct shutdown, but at an attenuated rate proportionate to dose. Theoretically therefore, 10mg of Epi used EOD (like on w/o days only) during post cycle therapy would only improve recovery while providing a little extra anabolism and nil toxicity!

wow that's pretty cool.

but i thought the original unmethylated steroid was the SERM...is the 17aa shown to be one, too?

and just thinking out loud...how do we know the E2 binding prompts LH release via negative feedback to a greater degree than the AR binding will inhibit LH? that is, how'd you come up with this theory? binding affinities? bloodwork?

 

[DR.D]

... how'd you come up with this theory? binding affinities? bloodwork?

It's not yet well defined. I only make these arguments as likely explanations of the mechanics. Studies of the non-alkylated parent alcohol are the inspiration for these hypotheses but interpretation of the bloodwork values are the basis.

With administration of Epi, E2 levels increase parallel to dose and duration but with a ceiling. This would suggest that Epi is a SERM like it's parent alcohol at the E2-beta receptor and explains why anti-gyno benefits are proportional to dose and duration even with relatively high estrogen levels. Induced estrogen resistance may therefore occur which would allow for upregulation of ERs and explain why lipid values are surprisingly protected in spite of the fact that no aromatization occurs with this compound. Also important to consider is that suppression of steroidogenesis will eventually occur, but is actually inverse in the beginning which likely indicates a non-stochastic balance between SERM and androgen effects. LH/Test increase is mostly seen initially because of the higher androgeny as the dose is increased, but remains somewhat linear anyway. This may suggest that it supports test production, even after the inflection point where the dose becomes high enough to start suppression as well creating a dynamic balance between these two oppositional mechanisms. That would also explain why post cycle therapy is so fast and easy and why residual anti-estrogenic activity has been observed long after the compound has been discontinued. That means very little chance for a rebound too and it is very well suited for longer than normal oral cycles as well as pulsing. This is my view as of now.

 

[bioman]

Try sayin all that 10 times quickly.

 

[DR.D]

Try sayin all that 10 times quickly.

It was hard enough saying it one time Bio! To but it in practical terms, I basically think that Epi boosts test and E2 like a SERM but also acts like an androgen so it would be similar to the results of stacking Nolva and test for example. You won't grow boobs but you will shut down, but much more slowly and your lipids wouldn't get too trashed because E2 is still fairly high. Or scientifically speaking, it's some good shizz!

 

[hardestgainer]

i have mild gyno, and thinking of using epi to try and kill some gyno, aswell as save some muscle while cutting. I am not using as part of a post cycle therapy, just by itself. So while tapering the epi, i should add some nolva in there near the end and taper that down??

 

[Hyde12]

Would raloxifine be good enough for PCT? And how has Epi been on everyones libido?

 

[bioman]

It was hard enough saying it one time Bio! To but it in practical terms, I basically think that Epi boosts test and E2 like a SERM but also acts like an androgen so it would be similar to the results of stacking Nolva and test for example. You won't grow boobs but you will shut down, but much more slowly and your lipids wouldn't get too trashed because E2 is still fairly high. Or scientifically speaking, it's some good shizz!

I hope it all pans out as logs start to get more common. I'll be running it this week whenever it arrives. Having a compound that produces these results with such low sides is a long awaited dream for those of us who are prone to depression on orals for which crashing lipid values are the ultimate cause.

 

[mmowry]

My libido was actualy MUCH better on Epi than it was before!

 

[DR.D]

i have mild gyno, and thinking of using epi to try and kill some gyno, aswell as save some muscle while cutting. I am not using as part of a post cycle therapy, just by itself. So while tapering the epi, i should add some nolva in there near the end and taper that down??

That sounds like a very strong anti-gyno plan indeed. Something like:

Epi....... 20,30,30,20,0,0,0,0
Nolva... 0,0,0,10,20,20,20,10

 

[DR.D]

Would raloxifine be good enough for post cycle therapy? ...

Oh yeah, I think very much so, but I have not tried the combo personally to confirm for certain.

 

[DR.D]

I hope it all pans out as logs start to get more common. I'll be running it this week whenever it arrives. Having a compound that produces these results with such low sides is a long awaited dream for those of us who are prone to depression on orals for which crashing lipid values are the ultimate cause.

Knowing you so long now Bio, I think it will suit you very well. Acne was my only side and even then at higher doses only (over 30mg). Excellent strength, mental, and libido with this one. :thumbsup:

 

[same_old]

i am going to have to think on this a while...doc are you comfortable posting all the bloodwork taken after administration commenced? or maybe just t=x and endo panels...it would be a lot easier to conjecture with all the data in front of us. it certainly sounds like a unique compound.

 

[DR.D]

I have already posted the bloodwork (somewhere here). The full endos where lost and all I have are the summaries that I had stored in a word doc unfortunately, and x=2, SS and myself.

 

[pudzian2]

Epi is a steroidal SERM that binds selectively to E2-beta receptors. It elevates LH levels initially. After constant, low level doses, the resulting test boost will increase E2 levels and promote shutdown though and if higher doses are used (like 20mg and over) the androgenic properties overcome the SERM effect on HPTA and may cause direct shutdown, but at an attenuated rate proportionate to dose. Theoretically therefore, 10mg of Epi used EOD (like on w/o days only) during post cycle therapy would only improve recovery while providing a little extra anabolism and nil toxicity!

I was thinking about that earlier...that would be like a taste of the best of both worlds...

 

[pistonpump]

this would explain the huge boost in libido i got from it at the start. I also feel this compound can be run for a longer than normal cycle. Im interested in the after cycle effects from taking this. Im thinking of the 10mg thing on workout days offcycle. i think this would add an added boost to test and a small anabolism feature with a suppression that would be nil after you awake the next day.

 

[pudzian2]

this would explain the huge boost in libido i got from it at the start. I also feel this compound can be run for a longer than normal cycle. Im interested in the after cycle effects from taking this. Im thinking of the 10mg thing on workout days offcycle. i think this would add an added boost to test and a small anabolism feature with a suppression that would be nil after you awake the next day.

this sounds like a VERY good idea. Let me know if it works for you

 

[2RIIPPED]

Wow you can run this at a low dose post cycle. I'm going to wait on trials of this one first before I try that one, so hurry up people try it out.

 

[pudzian2]

i wonder if it would be best like EOD or E3D at 10mg post cycle....just to be safe. sounds like something i will employ to use up my leftover epi from my cycle.

 

[Hyde12]

I tried pulsing havoc and I noticed no shutdown. When I ran havoc for a month straight, I noticed some shut down and libido loss, but when I pulsed I had no issues.