Advanced Clen use questions...

Rictor33

Member
Hello.... I am currently 6' 203 lbs at I'd say around 12-13% bodyfat. I have decided that I look alot better in the low to mid 190s (hopefully getting into the single digits (8%). So I have decided to use clen (again)... This time however my diet will be much better and cardio more frequent. I am planning on running 2 weeks clen 60/60/60/80/80/80/100/100/120/120--->
for 2 weeks then jumping to something to let my receptors up-regulate before going back on clen again for another two weeks. I understand that ephedrine effects the same receptors so e/c/a is out of the equasion. Here are some things I have been thinking about:
Clen / Basic cuts (I always trust DS)
Clen / Trimax (not sure about this stuff, kinda scared of it)
Clen / Melting point

Another question: What do you think about the clen/t3 combination? T3 scares the living **** out of me and I'm just not sure if the clen/t3 combination is too catabolic and will make my muscles wilt. I am seriously considering giving it a try.

Any input would be very much appreciated.. Thank you in advance :)
 
Clen and t3 work well together but you will need some sort of aas to preserve muscle mass.
 
I see you on here all the time so I presume you are already considering other support when on clen, like taurine and potassium (bananas)...

That said, I used to be a big fan of the clen/T3 stack. On my last cut I used albuterol and T4 and it seemed just as effective, but I went through the bottle of alb. very quickly (all liquids).

Due to paranoia I've had in the past of catabolism with the T3, I always ran something anabolic alongside, even if it was just PHs, but I never noticed any loss that made me worry.

Though I am far from the most well-educated person on this site, I do recall reading somewhere that either T3 or T4 is actually mildly anabolic at the right dosages. If I have time, I will do a search for you, not sure if I read that here or on another forum.

Oh to answer the other half of your question...out of the stacks you mentioned, I would go with clen and Trimax. And don't forget your EFAs if you are cutting!

Best of luck!!!
 
Can't speak for T3 from personal experience, but don't use Triac without some kind of anabolic. I personally won't use Triac again after seeing my thyroid hormone #'s be off for like 2 years after I stopped. Strength loss is just about inevitable on Triac, except for that one time I added M1T to my 4ADcyp and 1-Test Cyp :twisted: . So it takes an awful lot to combat the strength loss, but I think you can starve off the catabolism with a lot less.

I would feel much safer adding a nice androgen to the clen cycle(s) than Triac/T3.
 
I found a couple threads that discuss T3 being anabolic, but no references and no dosage facts:

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The reason im scared of T3/Triac is because I do not want to screw up my thyroid. And anabolics are out of the question, I have noticed my hair thins and my sex drive goes away no matter how hard I pct afterwards... I have been using PH/AAS for 5+ years and I've decided that I should call it quits. I am no longer going for the "super muscles 220" look because my face gets fat and I look like a bloated out steroid freak no matter what I take. I spent too much time relying on the drugs for my body comp instead of fixing my diet and supplementing correctly. If I end up doing them again it will be after I have successfully changed my body comp and wont have to worry about a little fat gain. Anyway any more input on my previous post would be appreciated.. thanks :)
 
supersoldier said:
Is HGH frag out of the question too?:bb:
Click to expand...

Yeah, with my current situation moving and paying higher rent to move to a more happening area, it's hard for me to afford HGH. I dont think I need HGH for this type of cut. Yes, I want to maintain as much LBM as possible, but HGH is a little overboard for me financially. To get from 203 12% to 190's sub10% should be something that 2 weeks clen 2 weeks fat burner 2 weeks clen 2 weeks fat burner with proper 2250-2500
kcal/day diet and cardio 3x week with my normal lifting legs/shoulders, Back/bi and chest/tri days should be more than enough. The only question is: What non-ephedrine fat burner is the best to use during the 2 off weeks while my receptors up-regulate? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. People say take ketofin or use the antihistimine method, but I would rather give myself and my heart a break from the clen so the 2on2off2on2off seems like a more safe alternative.
 
Run DCP throughout the cutter and cycle clen at 7 on/7 off pattern to keep receptors fresh. I personally don't see any reason to taper the dose of clen. I have run these two together and I got great results without a great diet. Plus, this stack is not too financially taxing.
 
Yeah if you run t3 add in at least low dose test. I remember the first time I cut using t3 and clen. I went from 210 to 180 in about 5 weeks. Unforunately I looked just as flabby as I did at 210. I basically stayed just about the same BF levels ( i went down like 2%) my strength went to crap. However thsi time I around I did Clen, T3 and a Thermogenic called Jet fuel + Tren and Test. That is amazing I am actually getting stronger and loosing fat. It is a little slow, like 3.5lbs a week but I am getting stronger and more muscular. How I LOVE AAS.

I think it would be very beneficial to add in an AAS. Seriously you can do a GREAT job cutting and get stronger. Personally I would add in some test prop and throw in T3,Clen + ketotifen and then drop cals to say 2000 and that would eb an amazing cut cycle. You could run it all together for 6 or 8 weeks and be a lean mean machine.
 
Well, its that time of year again. I just wanted to add some info to this thread...food for thought. Dont get carried away with the Clen out there boys & girls.

I would suggest some Albuterol over Clen. It is healthier and works comparably well. They are the same class of drug. It isnt as bad on the heart tissue. Albuterol clears the system quicker. It has no studies out there demonstrating permanent heart damage at low doses - Clen does... quite a few. Albuterol is also considered to be kinder on overall endurance (doesnt effect V02 Max negatively) where Clen can deliver a hit. It is speculated that the long half-life of Clen is what causes it to "build-up," so to speak, and cause more damage to the heart tissue.

Try Volmax 8mg (also comes in 4mg), sustained release 2x a day. (12-16 seems to be effective for a 200lb male) Also VERY cheap...

Clen needs to be retired. You will thank me when you're 60.

J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1) . In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
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This study shows that doses of 1 mcg/kg BW induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) in heart tissue. Humans ingest this much clen quite often, for instance, in a 220 lb (100 kg) bodybuilder this translates to 100 mcg.

ABUSING either of these compounds is still not a good idea for the heart. Clen is banned in the U.S. for Asthma treatment. Albuterol is still RX'd, although sparingly.

Personally, I would recommend Generic meridia (cheap, zaps the appetite & reduces cravings via serotonin) and Sesathin/DCP/TTA..maybe some t3...whatever you want. IMO, this is much healthier than slamming stims. Obviously you can add stims or t3 if you desire. You can pound all the clen you want, if your cals arent reduced its not going to matter much. The hard part for me has always been controlling diet and calorie restriction. The only real problematic side of Sibutramine in healthy individuals is a slight increase in blood pressure. The only problem we see is when obese fat ****s with poor cardiovascular health take it. They are already on the verge of death and the BP increase can be too much. There have already been some fat lawsuits. Ironically, these are the ONLY people its supposed to be RX'd too. I tried it out mostly because I was curious. It has a fairly high incidence of headaches but I never had any at all. I did sleep like **** for the first 2-3 nights though until I adjusted. Other than that, I had no other sides at all.
 
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