Arimidex slow gains?

  1. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Arimidex slow gains?


    I was reading this article here:

    Bodybuilding.com - Big Cat - In Depth Arimidex (Anastrozole) Profile!

    I got the impression from it that arimidex seriously hindered gains.

    Do you think a dose as small as .25 mg EOD would slow gains?


    Also do you think arimidex is nesassary in a 400 mg test-e per week cycle? I'm looking to control my blood preasure a bit more, and I thought that it could help.


    Thanks

  2. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    DAdams91982's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    7,397
    Rep Power
    700725

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I was reading this article here:

    Bodybuilding.com - Big Cat - In Depth Arimidex (Anastrozole) Profile!

    I got the impression from it that arimidex seriously hindered gains.

    Do you think a dose as small as .25 mg EOD would slow gains?


    Also do you think arimidex is nesassary in a 400 mg test-e per week cycle? I'm looking to control my blood preasure a bit more, and I thought that it could help.


    Thanks
    The goal here is to reduce estrogen, not crush it. Estrogen helps regulate the cholestorol, and believe it or not, helps the anabolic environment.

    Is it necessary for your cycle? THat depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Keep the bloat down? Then yeah... avoid gyno, no. You may not even be gyno prone.

    Honestly, with test, I say embrace the bloat, helps keep you super saturated, and the gains will come fast. Water will shed at the end.

    As for blood pressure... are you not taking cycle support by anabolic innovations?

    If not I suggest doing so.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
  3. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    The goal here is to reduce estrogen, not crush it. Estrogen helps regulate the cholestorol, and believe it or not, helps the anabolic environment.

    Is it necessary for your cycle? THat depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Keep the bloat down? Then yeah... avoid gyno, no. You may not even be gyno prone.

    Honestly, with test, I say embrace the bloat, helps keep you super saturated, and the gains will come fast. Water will shed at the end.

    As for blood pressure... are you not taking cycle support by anabolic innovations?

    If not I suggest doing so.

    Adams
    I am taking cycle support 2 x a day, morning and night.


    I often wonder if it is enough. I also take 15 fish oils a day, muti vitamin, potassium, and more hawthorn berry on top of that.


    I don't think the cuff on my blood preasure monitor fits me well. My dystolic is always close to the same, around 60. But my sys jumps around after every take. I think the cuff is too small for my arm.

    One reading I got 142/ 61 3 minutes later I get 117 / 60
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    The goal here is to reduce estrogen, not crush it. Estrogen helps regulate the cholestorol, and believe it or not, helps the anabolic environment.

    Is it necessary for your cycle? THat depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Keep the bloat down? Then yeah... avoid gyno, no. You may not even be gyno prone.

    Honestly, with test, I say embrace the bloat, helps keep you super saturated, and the gains will come fast. Water will shed at the end.

    As for blood pressure... are you not taking cycle support by anabolic innovations?

    If not I suggest doing so.

    Adams


    What if I find a happy medium, with like .25 mg's EOD... wouldn't have much of an effect on gains but would help blood preasure by reducing bloat?
  5. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,723
    Rep Power
    949536

    Its a fine line and challenging balance when taking something like Arimidex. It takes some time for dose changes to manifest themselves. With Test and/or any aromatising androgen the estrogen potentiates negative sides of sodium and carbs resulting in some additional bloat. So arimidex may help but so would sodium and carb control or modifications as well.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, is stick to a set dose. Likely really no more than .25 to .5 EOD for this cycle. Unless you have done many cycles to compare it to you do not have any barometer for what is going to work. You can employ more or less next time around. After about a week or two post cycle, you will loose water and see lbm, and if you are like me, say to yourself..."that bloat was no thing"

    If BP is a serious issue for you, and obviously a health risk, the use of steroids is always a serious concern regardless of ancillaries employed.

    Anyway, JMO
  6. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Its a fine line and challenging balance when taking something like Arimidex. It takes some time for dose changes to manifest themselves. With Test and/or any aromatising androgen the estrogen potentiates negative sides of sodium and carbs resulting in some additional bloat. So arimidex may help but so would sodium and carb control or modifications as well.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, is stick to a set dose. Likely really no more than .25 to .5 EOD for this cycle. Unless you have done many cycles to compare it to you do not have any barometer for what is going to work. You can employ more or less next time around. After about a week or two post cycle, you will loose water and see lbm, and if you are like me, say to yourself..."that bloat was no thing"

    If BP is a serious issue for you, and obviously a health risk, the use of steroids is always a serious concern regardless of ancillaries employed.

    Anyway, JMO

    Thanks for the reply bro.


    BP isn't a serious risk for me I do not believe. I started with very low blood preasure and from what I can tell, I haven't gone much above that. I'd just really like to keep it under control. I read countless threads where guys BP gets up to ungodly numbers, and that sort of thing just scares me. I figured I'd prepare myself properly.


    So you think .25 EOD won't kill my gains?


    As far as the health risk; I believe almost anything is a calculated risk of some sort, and that hopefully for me the value is worth the risk.


    Thanks
  7. Unbreakable
    Board Moderator
    David Dunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    49
    Posts
    11,723
    Rep Power
    949536

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    So you think .25 EOD won't kill my gains?
    You know, I have heard this, and heard people opinion vary. Like I mentioned earlier, you run this cycle with .XXmg and see what you gain. Next cycle, you use +/- .XXmg. Only then can you be the judge of how it will effect your gains.

    A lot of this is anecdotal. But, in theory, estrogen does potentiate gains. Does it, for you, in reality...you'll find out by experimenting. This won't be your last cycle...
  8. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    You know, I have heard this, and heard people opinion vary. Like I mentioned earlier, you run this cycle with .XXmg and see what you gain. Next cycle, you use +/- .XXmg. Only then can you be the judge of how it will effect your gains.

    A lot of this is anecdotal. But, in theory, estrogen does potentiate gains. Does it, for you, in reality...you'll find out by experimenting. This won't be your last cycle...


    I told myself I'd only do one lol.
  9. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    The main problem with A'Dex or any other AI for that matter is they may negate Estrogen's very positive anabolic effects. Low ER1 activity can seriously inhibit GLUT4 expression in muscle cells; GLUT4 is essentially the glucose gate keeper for muscle cells. As well, and if I am not mistaken, Estrogen upregulates androgen receptors, so completely killing it has a double-prong effect in terms of slowing gains.
  10. Registered User
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,081
    Rep Power
    1634

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    The main problem with A'Dex or any other AI for that matter is they may negate Estrogen's very positive anabolic effects. Low ER1 activity can seriously inhibit GLUT4 expression in muscle cells; GLUT4 is essentially the glucose gate keeper for muscle cells. As well, and if I am not mistaken, Estrogen upregulates androgen receptors, so completely killing it has a double-prong effect in terms of slowing gains.
    I have the bottle right here, and this post makes me screw the cap back on, lol.
  11. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I have the bottle right here, and this post makes me screw the cap back on, lol.
    Please, don't take my word as gospel, that is merely my observation....lol
  12. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    DAdams91982's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    7,397
    Rep Power
    700725

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I have the bottle right here, and this post makes me screw the cap back on, lol.
    As you seen... there are many differentiating views on this issue. To be sure, you will need basically 3 cycles. One trying to go without, to see how your body responds... then the next to guage your dose (Respecting the fact that you will need it as seen in the previous cycle), then your 3rd would be the one that you know where to go (Again respecting the fact that you do even need it).

    As Mullet said, dont take my word as gospel, but taking your cycle support should alleviate the issues you are worried about, aside from the bloat. I say embrace the bloat... it makes for a highly anabolic environment. You may not even be sensitive to higher estrogen levels.

    You will need to learn the environment within your body before you dose such a strong drug. IF any issues do arise, they can be countered very easily, provided you have the proper ancillaries.

    Adams
    The Historic PES Legend
  13. Registered User
    BigMattTx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    New York
    Age
    31
    Posts
    859
    Rep Power
    544

    I think the only way it "hinders gains" is by decreasing the bloat. Bloat is an increase in size so people equate that to gains. In reality, you will lose all bloat once the cycle is over. Whats the point to putting on all the waterweight and then looking like you shrink when you come off? I have seen extreme bloat cause stretchmarks and I prefer to use an AI.

    It will lessen the risk of estrogenic sides and control bloat. Just use a small dose. .25mg-.5mg EOD is fine for this cycle
  14. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,074
    Rep Power
    917999

    Unless you are very prone to gyno, then I don't think that Adex will be needed. Estrogen is helpful (to an extent) while on-cycle. Lowered estrogen can also have negative effects on your lipids.
  15. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Board Sponsor
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27062

    Quote Originally Posted by MattHines View Post
    I think the only way it "hinders gains" is by decreasing the bloat. Bloat is an increase in size so people equate that to gains. In reality, you will lose all bloat once the cycle is over. Whats the point to putting on all the waterweight and then looking like you shrink when you come off? I have seen extreme bloat cause stretchmarks and I prefer to use an AI.

    It will lessen the risk of estrogenic sides and control bloat. Just use a small dose. .25mg-.5mg EOD is fine for this cycle
    No, Estrogen is a key regulator of GLUT4. While GLUT4 is not the only mechanism of intracellular glucose metabolism, it is the most prominent. I'll grab a study which displays what I cited above as an example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziricote
    Abstract and Full Article from PubMed Central- http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1360576
    Quote:
    Abstract
    Estrogen is known to influence glucose homeostasis with dominant effects in the liver, but the role of estrogen receptors in muscle glucose metabolism is unknown. In the present study, we investigated the expression of the two estrogen receptors, ER1 and ER2, and their influence on regulation of the glucose transporter, GLUT4, and its associated structural protein, caveolin-1, in mouse gastrocnemius muscle. Immunohistochemical analysis revealed that ER1 and ER2 are coexpressed in the nuclei of most muscle cells, and that their levels were not affected by absence of estradiol [in aromatase-knockout (ArKO) mice]. GLUT4 expression on the muscle cell membrane was not affected by loss of ER2 but was extremely reduced in ER1-/- mice and elevated in ArKO mice. RT-PCR confirmed a parallel reduction in GLUT4 mRNA levels in ER1-/- mice. Upon treatment of ArKO mice with the ER2 agonist 2,3-bis(4-hydroxyphenyl)propionitrile, GLUT4 expression was reduced. By immunofluorescence and Western blotting, caveolin-1 expression was higher in ArKO mice and lower in ER2-/- and ER1-/- mice than in WT littermates. GLUT4 and caveolin-1 were colocalized in WT and ArKO mice but not in ER2-/- and ER1-/- mice. These results reveal that ER1 is a positive regulator of GLUT4 expression, whereas ER2 has a suppressive role. Both ER2 and ER1 are necessary for optimal caveolin-1 expression. Taken together, these results indicate that colocalization of caveolin-1 and GLUT4 is not an absolute requirement for muscle glucose metabolism but that reduction in GLUT4 could be contributing to the insulin resistance observed in ER1-/- mice.
    I'll also dig up some studies displaying how Estorgen upregulates the Androgen Receptor. It's not just the bloat, Estrogen is a key player in anabolism.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. First Test E only Cycle...slow gains...thoughts?
    By Danc1523 in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 06-23-2013, 12:11 PM
  2. Working night shift slow gains?
    By BigVida in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-10-2012, 09:35 PM
  3. any proof that arimidex hurts gains in cycles?
    By Bigbuttchicks in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-06-2010, 06:57 AM
  4. slow gains on test, eating enough?
    By illgixxer in forum Old School Hormone Use
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-03-2010, 02:23 PM
  5. Lifting at night slowing gains?
    By Rage (SoCal) in forum Exercise Science
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-22-2006, 12:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in