Should I do it?

[ryan - pumped]

Here is what I want to do -

Light Cycle with the goal of a lean and lasting 10-15 pounds.

Test E - 400mg / week - weeks 1 - 10
Arimidex - .5mg / ed - weeks 1 - 16
Toremifene - various mg / ed - weeks 11-15

Possibly some HCG throughout or during PCT.


This is why I am unsure about doing so -

I have only been training seriously for about a year. I weight 155 at 8-9% BF, standing 5'8"...23 years old. I am sure that I can continue to grow naturally. I am, however, impatient. I do not want to get Huge. A solid 10lb or little more would more plenty for a while. Running a cycle would get me there quickly.

Training consist of a two day spilt. Two days on, one day off. Round one is sqaut, deadlift, the variations of those, some accessory work like back raises, and abs The next evening consists of barbell or dumbell bench, some e incline, decline and floor presses, bent over rows, dips, tricep pushdowns, curls, and abs. The reps are generally low and the volume is high.

Diet consist of a lot of whey, fruit, dairy, vegetables, and fats from flax and olive oil. About 3000 calories a day, perhaps a little more, spread over 6 or 7 meals.

So should I do it? Should I wait? If I should wait, can you tell me why? The fact that I can continue to grow naturaly does not seem like reason to not run a cycle.

Thanks.

 

[Zombie]

welcome to the forum ryan - pumped, i would personally sugest that you wait more time, at one year of training and at 155lbs i woulnot recommend touching roids, you can try sticking with protein, multi v and the basic staples and try to get the most natural gains you can.

just my 2c

 

[DAdams91982]

I am all for some enhancement... but not until you put some blood sweat and tears into my lifestyle!!!! So eat up... enjoy some creatine, sip on some protien all day, and lift till it hurts!!!

Adams

 

[lat-eralus]

You are nowhere near your natural potential and at 23 do not need AAS to add size and strength. Eat and Lift for a few more years, then maybe think about AAS.

 

[ryan - pumped]

I was hoping for something like "Freaking go for it," but I am not surprised. I appreciate the feedback.

While I think I will attempt to be patient for a while.. Theoretical, If I were to use now, what would be the downside? Would natural growth be considerably more difficult afterwards?

 

[Cardinal]

One big negative that stands out to me is that you have only been weight training seriously for one year. Also, you are only looking to gain 10-15 lbs. If you were interested in eventually putting on maybe 40 lbs muscle, you'd have a slightly stronger argument. You may still have some newbie muscle gains in you....depends on how well you partition things as the calories go up. One of the obvious reasons to recommend against the cycle is that you can probably get 10-15 lbs muscle in less than a year by just eating more food and following the same training program you are now. Simple and with less risk no? It would keepable because you ate enough to get there and you don't have to worry about pct or changes in hormonal balance.

OTOH, you are at a very ideal bodyfat percentage to start a bulk. And like you mentioned, you can get to your goal very quickly, in one 10-12 week cycle.

The biggest problem I see after the cycle for many people is not so much inability to progress further naturally, but rather loss of gains. Of course it will be tougher to progress naturally (due to either approaching a genetic limit or more accurately being able to eat enough to force more bodyweight on). Many ectomorphs that I have trained with that go on cycle end up losing everything within a few months after the cycle simply because they can't make themselves eat enough to hold the new muscle they built. They manage to eat enough on cycle by forcing themselves to grow, but end up exhausted after the cycle is done and just can't take all the food. I won't make any assumptions about your eating ability. It is just what I have seen personally with a lot of smaller guys that go on AAS.

Another point to note is that many people love AAS enough to not consider stopping after one cycle. The ones that do stop, stop mainly because they don't like the sides, not because they logically planned to do just one cycle. Quite a few people get gyno from test, lose hair, get bloodly noses and high bp, etc and just decide it isn't for them.

One piece of advice I would give you if you do this would be to keep going on your cycle if you think you are going to have the urge to cut after your bulk. Cutting naturally after pct is a great way for an ecto to risk losing some hard earned muscle. I'd just extend the cycle a few weeks if you get the urge to cut and get in line at the buffet tables for pct afterwards. Bulk up about 10 lbs over your goal weight to account for slight water/lbm loss during pct. jmo/jme.

AAS is all a risk/reward thing anyhow, just like everything else in life if you so choose to view it that way. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. For the record I agree that being below your genetic limit isn't justification for not doing a cycle necessarily. However, training and diet needs to be rock solid...and you are probably in a better position to know if that is the case than we are.

 

[ryan - pumped]

Awesome post. Thanks.

 

[ryan - pumped]

So speaking of loosing muscle after a cycle, I seem to hear that associated with test more than anything else. Is that simply because test is a strong bulker to the point that is difficult to hold onto the growth? Or is it a PCT issue, as test is going to produce a lot of estrogen if an AI is not used?

 

[mixedup]

in one word NO with only one years of training you have no need to run AS. That's not a flame just saying you can gain alot more naturally without it.

 

[getreal]

You even said that you were sure that you could continue to grow naturally, If that is so why do you want to take roids, because your impatient? at 5'8 155 23 years of age you are nowhere near ready, 1 year of training? I think you are even lucky enough to of had constructive criticism.

 

[jomi822]

So speaking of loosing muscle after a cycle, I seem to hear that associated with test more than anything else. Is that simply because test is a strong bulker to the point that is difficult to hold onto the growth? Or is it a post cycle therapy issue, as test is going to produce a lot of estrogen if an AI is not used?

no. just NO to everything you just said

 

[Ubiquitous]

Besides wanting to jump on juice after ONE YEAR of training....anyone notice he wants to start PCT immediately after his last week of Test Enanthate?

Be paitent for fvck's sake. You have plenty of room and time to grow naturally before you can warrant using AAS.

During that time you can educate yourself about them.. and make an educated decision later on. Hopefully by then you will understand the waiting period in regards to starting PCT after using a longer ester like Enanthate.

 

[ryan - pumped]

Good point. I have been reading about ester lengths.
SuperiorMuscle - On using long esters.

Well everyone thinks I should wait. I can dig it. I am blatantly impatient, but I will spend a while honing in my diet and training.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[dmix]

Hey Ryan - I'm probably late on this.

I was in your shoes about a year and a half ago, and was tempted to jump on the juice train, so to speak. I waited (going to run my first cycle in a couple months), and I'm really glad I did.

Not for any of the conventional reasons - I know it's really frustrating to hear "hit your genetic potential first", or "you can still build naturally", and it's normal to be impatient. I don't blame you. I'm not going to preach to you about any of those things.

But, simply put, after a year of training - I don't think you know how to train yet. I'm not saying you, individually - but anyone. When you get on juice, your strength is going to go through the roof. And, unless you've lifted heavy weight, and prepared your tendons for it, it's pretty easy to get hurt. I have a friend in your exact situation who was so pumped about his strength gains (upped his bench by 50 in 4 weeks) that he kept pushing the pace - and while his overall strength could handle it, his form wasn't the greatest, and his tendons couldn't handle the huge increased load. He tore his rotator cuff and a pectoral muscle. He's out of the gym for the next year.

Learn the big lifts (deadlift, squat, pendlay row, olympic lifts if you're so inclined), learn how to do them with perfect form, make sure you have your nutrition and workout in order, and know your PCT. I'd suggest running 12 weeks of Bill Starr's 5x5, personally. Then, have fun. It's not about hitting some mythical peak, it's about getting proper gains and minimizing risk.

 

[P4D2A022]

rp - why dont u try epistane??? maybe PP.. something without harsh sides

 

[NAS]

wow great responses and I completely agree, at 23 with 1 year of training, you could easily and I do mean increadibly easily put on 15lbs of muscle on in months, im talking like 2months, I did it, it takes lots of eating right and time in the gym, proper supplimentation. Eat right workout take creatine get carbs down work hard try nitric oxide boosters, you could even jump on some tribulus, but for 10lbs dont wast the riods and put that hard earned $ into food, think seriously...

 

[ryan - pumped]

Hey Ryan - I'm probably late on this.

I was in your shoes about a year and a half ago, and was tempted to jump on the juice train, so to speak. I waited (going to run my first cycle in a couple months), and I'm really glad I did.

Not for any of the conventional reasons - I know it's really frustrating to hear "hit your genetic potential first", or "you can still build naturally", and it's normal to be impatient. I don't blame you. I'm not going to preach to you about any of those things.

But, simply put, after a year of training - I don't think you know how to train yet. I'm not saying you, individually - but anyone. When you get on juice, your strength is going to go through the roof. And, unless you've lifted heavy weight, and prepared your tendons for it, it's pretty easy to get hurt. I have a friend in your exact situation who was so pumped about his strength gains (upped his bench by 50 in 4 weeks) that he kept pushing the pace - and while his overall strength could handle it, his form wasn't the greatest, and his tendons couldn't handle the huge increased load. He tore his rotator cuff and a pectoral muscle. He's out of the gym for the next year.

Learn the big lifts (deadlift, squat, pendlay row, olympic lifts if you're so inclined), learn how to do them with perfect form, make sure you have your nutrition and workout in order, and know your post cycle therapy. I'd suggest running 12 weeks of Bill Starr's 5x5, personally. Then, have fun. It's not about hitting some mythical peak, it's about getting proper gains and minimizing risk.

Wow, good point. I had considered that angle, but this is the first I have heard of someone actually getting injured through the rapid strength increases. Do you think there is a certain level of strength that put one in a prepared state, or do think is more of a matter of being under heavy weights for X number of years?

I have been doing a 5x5 for about six weeks now. I am currently doing my sets with 270 for the deadlift, 215 squats, 155 flat bench, and 170 bent over rows.

I upped my calories a good amount and have put on about 8lbs over the last month. I have lost a little definition, but I still have abs, so it seems that most of that was not fat. Just goes to show how I still have a lot room to grow and learn naturaly.

 

[dmix]

I hate throwing the term "mind-muscle connection" around, because it's often used as some sort of mystical bull**** terminology. But muscle memory is a huge part of it, and when you start lifting, it degrades as you get heavier. I think it's certainly physical, and also, partially mental. Let me try to explain.

First, if you're at those baselines for your lifts on the 5x5, you are going to see huge improvement by the end of the program. Let's say, hypothetically, 340 deadlift, 255 squat, 175 bench, 195 row, just as rough possibilities. Now, let's say you added gear to the equation, and again hypothetically and roughly, you found you could do a 410 deadlift, 320 squat, 215 bench, 240 row. You would be, at that stage, almost doubling some of your baselines in a matter of weeks.

When you're still getting the new lifting strength gains at such a significant pace, I simply think that it's dangerous to start on gear.

As for a certain level of strength - no, I don't think that's the case. Rather, it's a certain level of mental preparedness that comes with throwing around some heavier weight. You should be at the point where 1RM attempts aren't intimidating, they're normal. When you can think like that, you'll maintain your form, you'll keep a level head with your improvement, and you'll stay within your boundaries (whether or not they are test-enhanced.) Your muscles will be 100% familiar with the movement, and it's just a question of effort and capacity. That's when you can stop worrying, make your own decision about gear.

Hope that helps. 8 lbs in a month is an incredible jump, if it's accompanied by strength gains. Keep up the good work.