clen help

CRAZY LEGS

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I need some input on Clen , I ve done a lot of reading on clen .but I’m getting different answers from everything I read .one says run it 6 weeks straight and an other says run it at 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. One say run it in the morning one says run it at night.

Can any body give me some straight answers from experience, I need dosages, postcylce, what to run with it .My stats are 32 years old 5’-10” 240LBS @18%B/F. My deit is good and I train 5 days a week with 4 cardio days .
 

CRAZY LEGS

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Clen

HERE is what i'm going to run with.

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80 mcg
Day14: 60 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

What type of dosages do you guy's run for the eca stackper day.
 
MaDmaN

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Can anyone share how they felt on clen,good or bad ?
do you feel like your on speed or just jitters
Eca stack gave me a speed buz which was ok til like 2Pm when I would crash..

Glenihen said he hates clen I wonder why ?

Anyone with any input at all good or bad with clen please share and results..

Im taking 5 grams of taurine a day with it I plan to do 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off..Thoughts
 

CRAZY LEGS

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Madman what where the dosages you where using for your ECA stack
 

CRAZY LEGS

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HL ,do you only use ALR on the off weeks or do u use other stuff.
This the dosage i was going to use

E= 25 mgs, C= 200 mgs, A= 80 mgs
 
mixedup

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clen is one of those kind of hard to get straight answers about due to the fact it affects people SOOO different some love it some hate it and the body can react so different. I can run a 4weeker no problem but i usually stop at 4 weeks and switch to t3 after that. the best advice is start with a low dosage and work up to tolerance level imo
 

CRAZY LEGS

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WHY do people use eca stacks after any way, i have found nothing in any articles giving reasons why. Why not just taper off clen
 
MaDmaN

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Madman what where the dosages you where using for your ECA stack

I was taking 50 mg Ephedrine HCL and one tab of GNC Yohimbine,it wired me out but i liked it until the crash..

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Crazy Legs but lets pick their brains on this one..

Thanks Hairy larry for the input here is how I plan on taking it


days 1-3 40mcg
days 4-6 60mcg
days 7-10 100mcg
days 11-14 140mcgs*

providing the sides arnt too bad

I started a couple of hours ago and right now I just have a warm feeling and very alert, not jittery

Training 4 day split push pull rotating a light and heavy day

Aerobics 30 mins 5 day

Diet 2500 calories-40 % protien 30 % carbs 30 % carbs (low GLycemic carbs)

I hear others use benedryl on off weeks that stuff gives me a wicked hangover..

The Taurine have you heard of that and will it help with cramps..Thanks
 

CRAZY LEGS

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I was taking 50 mg Ephedrine HCL and one tab of GNC Yohimbine,it wired me out but i liked it until the crash..

Sorry if I hijacked your thread Crazy Legs but lets pick their brains on this one..

Thanks Hairy larry for the input here is how I plan on taking it


days 1-3 40mcg
days 4-6 60mcg
days 7-10 100mcg
days 11-14 140mcgs*

providing the sides arnt too bad

I started a couple of hours ago and right now I just have a warm feeling and very alert, not jittery

Training 4 day split push pull rotating a light and heavy day

Aerobics 30 mins 5 day

Diet 2500 calories-40 % protien 30 % carbs 30 % carbs (low GLycemic carbs)

I hear others use benedryl on off weeks that stuff gives me a wicked hangover..

The Taurine have you heard of that and will it help with cramps..Thanks

No worries man , I wish i life in the US you guy's have all the stuff there .Anything i want to order has to go thew customs:smite: So i have to search around for reliable sources.
 
Rodja

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Instead of relying on stims for fat loss, use them as a additive for cutting. What I mean by that is use a ppar-alpha agonist (SesaThin and/or TTA) as the backbone of your cutting supplements and use stims every other week. While cutting, I use SesaThin, a TTA product (Burn3D, MP, DCP, etc.), and I cycle clen every 7 days at 100mcg/day. It is the same amount of time on/off, but it hits the receptors differently and makes clen that much more effective.
 

CRAZY LEGS

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Interesting ,if you get some time send me a pm with the break down and full names and dosages. It will be a week or so before my clen comes in. good info guy's
 
Rodja

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Interesting ,if you get some time send me a pm with the break down and full names and dosages. It will be a week or so before my clen comes in. good info guy's
You need to be a board supporter/sponsor to have PM's.
 

william3162

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Clen, makes me experience jitters, get cramps, and increase my hunger significantly.
 

ajfrfghtr

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Can anyone tell me were i can get ahold of some clen?
 

Tom 185

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My opinion...

I like clen. I ran it 2 weeks on/2 weeks off while running test enanthate. I definitely experienced some cramping, nothing too crazy, mostly when i was sleeping i would get a random sharp one in my side during the middle of the night. Only felt jittery when I didn't taper up starting low enough. I sweat wayyyyyy more in the gym, since my body heat is obviously raised. I have very low bodyfat to begin with so after 2 weeks i had distinct veins that u could see running through my abs, back and calves.

my dosing schedule was:

20/40/60/80/80/100/100/100/100/100/100/80/60/40

I did 3 two-week cycles
 
MaDmaN

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What do you guys think taking Yohimbine while on clen ?
 
Rhyalus

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If someone could only stop the cramps in my Rat's calves, ankles and feet.

All other sides are easy to deal with, but the night cramps are terrible.

I have tried Taurine and Potassium but have gotten very little relief.

Anyone have any other ideas?

R
 
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Rhyalus

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I'll check it out, thanks. I gave my rat chelated potassium in 99mg strength X 3, two or three times per day.

A banana has anywhere from 300-500 mg, so I am sure that this is not overdosing.

I have also tried calcium (Tums) at night, with minor relief.

Poor Rat.

Regards,
R
 

Tom 185

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I'll check it out, thanks. I gave my rat chelated potassium in 99mg strength X 3, two or three times per day.

A banana has anywhere from 300-500 mg, so I am sure that this is not overdosing.

I have also tried calcium (Tums) at night, with minor relief.

Poor Rat.

Regards,
R
For the record....

Calcium cannot be absorbed from tums. It was and is a ridiculously good marketing strategy that is totally false. Taking tums for calcium is totally pointless.
 
FitModel

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so Hyperdrive is good to use in the bridge between cycles (2 week sperts)

what are some other supplements similar to Hyperdrive...does DS make anything?
 

CRAZY LEGS

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JUST FINISHED MY FIRST 2 WEEK CYCLE OF CLEN AND I HAVE LOST 6LBS AFTER THE 9TH DAY7.5LBS TOTAL .IS THIS GOOD OR TO MUCH TO FAST .MY STRENGHT IS STILL GOING UP AND NOTICING MORE DEFINITION IN CERTAIN PARTS.sO I WILL DO 2 WEEKS OF ECA STACK NOW AND THEN HIT THE CLEN FOR ANOTHER 2 WEEKS .:head:
 

Tom 185

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JUST FINISHED MY FIRST 2 WEEK CYCLE OF CLEN AND I HAVE LOST 6LBS AFTER THE 9TH DAY7.5LBS TOTAL .IS THIS GOOD OR TO MUCH TO FAST .MY STRENGHT IS STILL GOING UP AND NOTICING MORE DEFINITION IN CERTAIN PARTS.sO I WILL DO 2 WEEKS OF ECA STACK NOW AND THEN HIT THE CLEN FOR ANOTHER 2 WEEKS .:head:
the general rule is 1-2 lbs. per week...but dealing with these chemicals, that all changes...
 

CRAZY LEGS

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YES I HAVE NOTICED ,I DID BURN UP SOME MUSCLE BUT I THINK I,M OK FOR KNOW, i'M ONLY GOING TO DO ANOTHER 2 WEEKS AFTER THIS ,THEN MY FOOTBALL SEASON STRARTS.. AND FOR THE BETA 2 RECPTER I THINK MAY BE I'LL LAY OFF ECA ,AND START CLEN IN 2 WEEKS ,I DON'T WANT TO SPEND AY MORE MONEY
 
live4fitness

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I am a women and about to start clen for the first time. Anyone know what a women should start at and what are the symtoms besides the jitters.

BTW diet and excersise is in check just fat loss has slowed WAY down.
 
ShapeUP

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I don't see a point in tapering the clen DOWN once you reach a tolerable point where you are seeing results you can stick with it, whenever your done just stop.

Benadryl at night to help you sleep and rebuild receptors and you can run the clen longer..

Ketotifen and periactim every 3rd or 4th week will also rebuil receptors. :)
*this is by all the research I've done on it.*
 

Tom 185

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I am a women and about to start clen for the first time. Anyone know what a women should start at and what are the symtoms besides the jitters.

BTW diet and excersise is in check just fat loss has slowed WAY down.
20 for 2 days
40 for 2 days or more depending on how you feel
60 for 2 days or more depending on how you feel
80 max

run it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off
with 1mg ketotifen per day, i wouldnt go past 4 weeks max
my advice is stick with 2 on / 2 off

other than jitters, there are many symptoms...but this is the most common and noticeable one
 
live4fitness

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Thanks!

What is ketotifen for and where do I get it at?

BTW I intake a lot of sodium and K+ due to I drink ALOT of water so I am hoping the cramping won't be an issue
 

Tom 185

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Thanks!

What is ketotifen for and where do I get it at?

BTW I intake a lot of sodium and K+ due to I drink ALOT of water so I am hoping the cramping won't be an issue
ketotifen does the same job as benadryl...after approx. 2 weeks your body gets adapted to the clen and it wont work anymore...by taking one of these 2, it clears the receptors and allows you to run the clenbuterol for a longer period of time while still being effective...however, this is more stress on your heart so thats why i still say 2 on / 2 off

you can buy clen that had ketotifen in it for a little more money
or you can buy the keto separate

you can get both from one of the board sponsers...not allowed to source post


you can lower your sodium intake

water and k+ are good and u can add 3 grams of taurine (buy the powder form) with that...morning and pre-workout
 

Tom 185

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I don't see a point in tapering the clen DOWN once you reach a tolerable point where you are seeing results you can stick with it, whenever your done just stop.
the point of tapering down is just like caffeine...you will have withdrawl symptoms if you dont

you can taper down faster than you taper up but definitely still taper down...for example

after your last day at 80mcg
2 days at 60
1 day at 40
1 day at 20
 
live4fitness

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20 for 2 days
40 for 2 days or more depending on how you feel
60 for 2 days or more depending on how you feel
80 max

run it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off
with 1mg ketotifen per day, i wouldnt go past 4 weeks max
my advice is stick with 2 on / 2 off

other than jitters, there are many symptoms...but this is the most common and noticeable one
Why do you increase the dose so fast? Does your body aclimate that fast? And would you recommend I take that hyperdrive stuff too?
 

Tom 185

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Why do you increase the dose so fast? Does your body aclimate that fast? And would you recommend I take that hyperdrive stuff too?
because ur are only tapering to get ur body apapted to the upper dose that u are about to run

if u wanna taper slower then by all means go for it

hyperdrive isnt necessary
 
live4fitness

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because ur are only tapering to get ur body apapted to the upper dose that u are about to run

if u wanna taper slower then by all means go for it

hyperdrive isnt necessary
dOES IT DECREASE APPT? I AM NOT AS HUNGRY TODAY
 

Tom 185

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dOES IT DECREASE APPT? I AM NOT AS HUNGRY TODAY
i have heard people say it decreases appetite significantly for them, but i have also heard people say that theyre appetite felt increased...

personally, i didn't notice either

i would say that it is decreasing your appetite for sure though, makes sense scientifically
 

CRAZY LEGS

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my appetite has not changed but i,m on my second cycle 3 day's in and iam getting cold like symtomes .i felt the same when the first cycle started .it like a cold stuffy nose then a day later runny nose .but the weight just falls off great product .but you need to respect it or you could burn a lot of muscle up if you arte not carfull. Anybody else have symtomes like this
 
Fireproof

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I encourage you to continue learning about how clen works in the body and the associated risks. This will help you to see why short cycles tend to be recommended and will help you to use it safely.

Here's an article worth reading (originally posted at MindandMuscle.net):

Pharmaceutical Phenotype Enhancement
by Loki



Clenbuterol Part I


First ‘The Man’ marginalized ephedra. Then we saw the realization of a second supplement ban—one which will effectively deprive the mainstream bodybuilding community of its most-preferred anti-catabolic ancillary: the pro-hormone or pro-steroid. So just how the hell is a dieter supposed to preserve lean body mass these days while languishing on laughably low calories? Well, aside from investing in our beloved LeptiGen and shipping out for real gear, it seems like a lot of would-be-chiseled chaps are taking a new interest in the age-old diet drug Clenbuterol (1-(4-Amino-3,5-dichlorophenyl)-2-tert-butyl-am inoethanol), a sympathomimetic beta2 adrenergic agonist most commonly used in veterinary therapeutics and livestock doping. But is this recent, glaringly rekindled curiosity in clen leading would-be and first-time users to the right drug? Or for that matter, is clen a safe drug? So, without further ado, I think it’s time M&M gave ephedra’s “wonder-cuz’” its full-on, discerning attention.

Clen in Context: Basic Pharmacology

I throw around the word sympathomimetic a lot to compensate for my chronically low self-esteem. In the forums, in my sleep, during sex—it’s just such a dazzlingly erudite sounding word. And using it makes me feel special. And while you yourself may not feel the inclination to use it colloquially any time soon, if phrases like “nutrient partitioning” or “fat loss while preserving muscle” pique your interest, you should care about how this class of compounds works and what those workings result in.

Chances are you wouldn’t be reading this article if you didn’t, so quickly: sympathomimetics (take “sympath” from ‘sympathetic nervous system,’ throw an ‘o’ on there, and add ‘mimetic’ [i.e. ‘to mimic’] and you’re in business) are a class of drugs that affect the sympathetic nervous system (SNS), either by prompting central catecholamine (NE/NA and E/A) release or by peripherally mimicking the effects of those same endogenous hormone/neurotransmitters. Most of a sympathomimetic’s pharmalogical interplay occurs via interaction with beta andrenoreceptors. Ephedrine is a sympathomimetic, norephedrine is a sympathomimetic, H.E.A.T. is a sympathomimetic, and boy is clenbuterol ever a sympathomimetic. There are also many others.

With clenbuterol specifically, what we see is both forms of sympathomimetic activity. Clen synthetic mimics some of norepinephrine’s and epinephrine’s effects in specific outreaches of the SNS, and centrally exerts these effects in skeletal muscle, adipose tissue, and in an often-overlooked third area: the brain. Yes, that’s right: clenbuterol crosses the blood brain barrier, and is able to readily activate certain central adrenoreceptors (1).

Virtually all of this peripheral mimicking occurs at the beta2 adrenergic receptor, which is the reason clenbuterol is characterized as a beta2 specific agonist. When it interacts with these receptors in muscle, clenbuterol is able to catalyze Cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate (cAMP) production, a second-messenger signal transducer which regulates rates of glycogen decomposition, protein synthesis, and lipolysis (among many other things). What distinguishes clenbuterol prominently from ephedrine is its specificity, potency, and duration of effect.

Ephedrine, whether you already knew it or not, has very little direct activity in muscle or fat. Rather, it stimulates central sympathetic nerve terminals, thereby inciting an indiscriminate release of NE/NA (and to a lesser extent, epinephrine/adrenalin), which then relays across the entirety of the SNS. This makes ephedrine a primarily indirect and non-specific sympathomimetic, as it effectively delivers a mild ‘catecholamine carpet-bombing’ to all your various beta receptors (beta1, beta2, atypical beta3, and putative, atypical beta4). It is also this mechanism that gives ephedrine its long-term pharmacological viability: although not very set-point friendly, it will nonetheless continue to indirectly agonize adrenergic receptors along your SNS, even after months of continual use.

Clenbuterol is somewhat of a different beast. As mentioned earlier, it is able to prompt a small degree of catecholamine release from central adrenoceptors, as well as interact directly with the beta2 receptor in a dose-dependent manner with a potency that far exceeds the resultant effects of ephedrine administration.

More Technical Stuff on Clen’s Workings than You Could Ever Possibly Want to Know: Lipolysis

Nutrient-partitioning junkies, your patience is about to be rewarded. Now that we’ve established some context, it’s time to move on and discuss ‘the goods.’ It’s time to discuss the bad-ass lipolytic and repartitioning effects of clenbuterol in vivo. And it goes a little something like this. Following administration, clenbuterol avoids first-pass metabolism (it’s oral bioavailability ranges between 89-98%) and doses typically reach peak plasma levels roughly two hours after a dosage is ingested. This peak will then stabilize and continue for four additional hours (2). Eventually, roughly 50% of ingested clenbuterol will undergo metabolization into its four primary metabolites; the remaining half will be excreted intact, without metabolic breakdown (3). This biphasic elimination lends clenbuterol a veritable half-life that clocks in at just under thirty six hours.

Once it gets to work clenbuterol, as I already mentioned, binds to cellular beta2 receptors. Intracellularly this will increase cAMP (4), which then binds to regulatory subunits of protein kinase A, causing the release of its catalytic subunit. This process activates the enzyme HSL (hormone sensitive lipase), which hydrolyzes triglycerides, breaking them down into glycerol and fatty acids to allow for beta oxidation.

Now, as you can probably guess, one of the facets to clenbuterol that makes it such a potent lipolytic drug is that it exerts its beta-agonism steadily and continuously. If ephedrine is ‘hit-it-and-quit-it,’ clenbuterol is a friggin’ marathon man when it comes to stimulation. Clen isn’t very cuddly though, so all you high-maintenance bodybuilders are just plum out of luck.

Clenbuterol is undeniably potent at its target receptor. However, clenbuterol cannot be said to own ephedrine (particularly when combined with caffeine) outright for fat loss. Remember, since clen is primarily direct-acting on a cellular level, it can’t prompt the same kind of NE-induced hypophagia (loss of appetite) as ephedrine, which has proved to be an essential pharmacological component in its ability to further weight loss (5). Individuals looking to use clenbuterol for weight loss need to keep this in mind: clenbuterol partitions energy intake, but it will not aide in regulating or helping to decrease it, hence my recommendation that those planning to cut on clen also look into ancillary appetite suppressants.

There is also the prevailing theory in a lot of bodybuilding circles that clenbuterol actually raises metabolic rate by increasing endogenous thermogenesis. So let’s explore the purported calorie-burning properties of clenbuterol. In animals, although clenbuterol increases thermogenesis in mutant rats (genetically obese Zucker rats), multiple studies have demonstrated that in normal rats—even those administered rather hefty dosages of the drug--- clenbuterol “did not affect energy intake [or] energy expenditure” (6,7).

In human studies, the direct infusion of the related beta2-specific agonists salbutamol and terbutaline in lean men caused a modest increase in whole body energy expenditure and respiratory exchange ratio—an increase of 0.6 kJ/min in terms EE adjusted for fat-free mass (8). In other words, the guys getting heavy-duty beta2 adrenergic stimulation would have ended up burning about 200 extra kcals over a twenty four hour period. So in other words, thermogenesis was enhanced, but not so much to suggest that clenbuterol has strong calorie-burning properties of its own. Interestingly enough, in the same study the researchers noted that:

during beta2-adrenergic stimulation, the increases in energy expenditure and plasma nonesterified fatty acids and glycerol concentrations were reduced in the obese group. Furthermore, lipid oxidation significantly increased in the normal weight group, but remained similar in the overweight group… [this] data suggests that beta2-adrenoceptor-mediated increases in thermogenesis and lipid utilization are impaired in the obese (8).

In other words, if you’re still in plus-size pants, you’re out of luck: clenbuterol isn’t going to help you lose a whole lot of weight, because your obesity-train-wrecked metabolism just ain’t havin’ that (9). Plus, given the effects of beta adrenergic agonists on heart rate contraction, the use of clenbuterol in significantly overweight individuals may pose significant danger to the user (10,11).

And again, the take home message is the same: when dieting, nutrient-partitioning definitely matters, but in the end it still comes down largely to energy expenditure vs. intake, and clen is a calorie re-distributor, not a burner.

Clenbuterol and its Interaction(s) With Your Mammoth Guns

If you get one sentence out of this section on clenbuterol and skeletal muscle, please let it be this: clen is never going to get you big, but it is extremely good at keeping you big once you get there. Yes, I know clenbuterol is wicked-anabolic in Dawley-Sprague hyperphagic wombats, but you are a human, and the amount of clenbuterol it would take for you to see a genuine anabolic effect would also put you in a coffin, so let’s just let that one go.

Now, I said clen’s not anabolic, but it certainly does have positive ramifications for protein synthesis, primarily through the beta2s, cAMP, and its ability to mitigate Ca2+-dependent proteolysis in skeletal muscle (12). A critical component to its full effect is its repartitioning properties. As stated earlier, clenbuterol is exceedingly good at liberating fatty acids from adipose tissue. But, more than that, clenbuterol exerts this effect in tandem with large scale, itself-induced skeletal muscular insulin resistance (13).

Now, when you’re a type II diabetic, this isn’t so hot. However, in a healthy bodybuilder using a strong sympathomimetic you basically have the best of all worlds: plenty of free-fatty acids getting released for oxidation in muscle, plenty of insulin-resistant muscle to feast on them, and pretty much all consumed calories getting spared for muscle retention and protein synthesis. Granted, there’s very little good research on human skeletal muscle in the presence of clenbuterol (particularly when it comes to athletes), but reasoned inference and extrapolation certainly paints a pretty convincing picture that clenbuterol is significantly anti-catabolic.

For starters, human research with ephedrine and caffeine has demonstrated that indiscriminate, weaker beta-adrenergic agonism significantly improves protein deposition and preserves lean body mass during periods of caloric restriction (14). Also interesting was the researchers’ discovery that the ephedrine and caffeine mixture wasn’t attenuating skeletal muscular breakdown, but was in fact accelerating protein synthesis. This was proved clinically by 3-methylhistidine examination, an index for skeletal muscle breakdown.

In the sympathomimetic group, an increase in nitrogen balance was demonstrated independent of 3-methylhistidine, which means the ephedrine was actually helping to synthesize lean tissue at a faster rate, and thereby counteracting the increase in diet-induced catabolism (15). See? I wasn’t lying when I said clenbuterol could be anabolic; you just can’t take a high enough dose to get an anabolic degree of protein synthesis augmentation without ending up in the ER long before you could get your shaky ass anywhere near a squat rack.

Nonetheless, because of its pharmacology, clenbuterol is currently recognized in the scientific community as a valid remedial treatment for muscle-wasting conditions (16,17). In rodents, clenbuterol also actively inhibits glucocorticoid-induced muscle atrophy, and one can speculate that it may also exert similar anti-glucocorticoid properties in humans as well (18). Clenbuterol, by virtue of its beta-agonism, may also even be more effective at reducing glucocorticoid activity than that though, as it has been demonstrated that beta-receptor antagonism increases the release of adrenocorticotrophin (ACTH) in humans subjected to stress (19). For those unaware, ACTH is a pituitary hormone that stimulates cortisol secretion, which means there is a possibility that beta-receptor agonism may in fact be able to prompt the opposite: a decrease in ACTH release in response to stress.

All told, clenbuterol is pretty much the bomb and the shiznit as far drugs go for preserving muscle during periods of energy restriction through a number of different pathways. Oh but there are just a few more things…


But I’m Too Sexy To Die… (Side Effects and Precautions Pt. I)

By now it should be clear that clenbuterol is a powerful drug. And with all powerful drugs, there are consequences, ‘cause life just sucks like that. So for those of you about to get all ‘clenbutaholic’ with your research chemicals, here’s a little info I counsel you to take to heart. In fact, speaking of hearts, let’s examine yours in relation to clenbuterol, because there definitely is some cause for concern.

For starters, there are more rodent studies under the sun that show clenbuterol use can cause significant cardiac hypertrophy—so many in fact that I’m not even going to bother citing them. Just type “clenbuterol” and “cardiac hypertrophy” into Google if you don’t believe me; no lie, it’s a little unsettling. However, clenbuterol also kills fat cells (adipocyte apoptosis) in rodents too, and it sure doesn’t in humans, so take that animal data for what it’s worth. Unfortunately though, things don’t look too much better when we move up the evolutionary chain and start looking at hearts in good-ole’ human beings either.

For example in 1998, the internal medicine outpatient clinic at the University of Alabama Birmingham received a walk-in from a previously healthy 26-year-old bodybuilder complaining of significant chest pains. The man, who had a history of moderate anabolic steroid use but who had not used any steroid preparations in the weeks leading up to his visit, revealed that he had continuously been using clenbuterol for nearly a month [Loki’s note: idiot]. During check-up, the man turned out to be completely fit and healthy with the only exception being a significant amount of left ventricle (heart) hypertrophy and cardiac dyskinesias (meaning distortion of muscle [in this case smooth muscle] activity)(20).

In fact, between 1988 and 1998, eight cases of medically-diagnosed cardiac hypertrophy have been reported in drug-using bodybuilders within the United States (21,22). We can assume many more went overlooked or unreported. Still, because of the steroid outlier (which could also be a potential factor in the pathology—or perhaps even the outright cause), the medical community has been unable to isolate clenbuterol’s true role in contributing to these instances of myocardial infarcation (20). Still, the researchers who have examined this phenomenon arrived at a conclusion that should give most clen user’s pause of thought. Namely that:

We suspect there may have been a synergistic role between the anabolic steroid and clenbuterol. Hypothetically, the anabolic steroid may have caused cardiac hypertrophy, coronary artery spasm, or thrombosis. The clenbuterol may have precipitated ischemia by producing intermittent tachycardia. Alternately, clenbuterol may have contributed primarily to the cardiac hypertrophy...(20)

Furthermore, clenbuterol ingestion (particularly excessive ingestion) has also been documented to cause tachycardia (sudden, rapid racing of the heart)(20,23,24), hypokalemia (23), hypophosphatemia (23), potassium depletion (24), taurine depletion (25), headaches (24), tremors (24), and vertigo (24). Now, it should be noted that the more severe of the aforementioned conditions have only been demonstrated in instances of clenbuterol overdose and are thus not directly applicable to carefully monitored doses within the 20-100mcg range. Nonetheless, clenbuterol is definitively a “big kid sympathomimetic,” and not a drug that lends itself to immoderation, recklessness, or just outright stupidity.

And for now, I’m afraid that’s just going to have to do it for Part I of our comprehensive look at Clenbuterol. Next issue we’ll get into receptor down-regulation, clenbuterol, the brain, and neuroprotection (for all my Chemically Correct homies), cycling, stacking recommendations, and potential novel uses for clenbuterol in the treatment of injuries and various diseases and conditions.
 
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And here's Part II.

Pharmaceutical Phenotype Enhancement: Clenbuterol Part II
by Loki


Clenbuterol Part II



Preface: Part I Super Brief Quick Recap


Clenbuterol is a sympathomimetic drug. It is uber-lipolytic and potently anti-catabolic. It repartitions calories from fat deposits to skeletal muscle, and will initially kick more stimulation through your system than the sight of Jessica Alba in a two-or-less- piece, or for our female readers maybe Jude Law chopping wood or something (sorry, that’s as far as I can comfortably engage the latter half of the fantasy). It’s bad for your heart, and even worse taken with anabolic steroids, and is in general a drug that offers users significant cutting benefits, but at a very high potential cost to their health and well-being. In other words: if you choose to use it, realize you are doing so at your own risk.


Saying “Screw Loki, I’m Using This,” and Doing so at Your Own Risk

As mentioned in Part I, you get the good and the bad with clenbuterol. In particular, as athletes/bodybuilders, our three prime concerns are: 1. the potential for deleterious effects on cardiac function, 2. the impairment of exercise-performance capacity (see: a few sentences down), and 3. the eventual functional downregulation of your beta2 adrenergic receptors after continual exposure to clenbuterol, which is eventually going to downgrade the strength of clen’s lipolytic punch from “Early Mike Tyson” to “Late Mike Tyson”. So when using clenbuterol, obviously the informed and educated user should be looking to strike a balance to get as much of the benefits with as little ‘bad’ as possible.

Regarding clenbuterol’s potential to impair heart function and lead to cardiac complications, there’s really not too much you can do aside from keeping your clen dose as low and reasonable as possible, at a dosage where you’re still seeing effects. Obviously a beta-blocker would prevent the negative, but it is after all a beta-blocker, which isn’t exactly the kind of drug you want to stack with a beta adrenergic agonist if you want to see, well, anything positive.

Either a novel, selective beta1 antagonist or an angiotensin II type 1 blocker might make welcome contributions to the cellular well-being of your cardiac myocytes, but unless you saved the CEO of Merck from a recent bear attack or something, chances are you don’t have the kind of connections to acquire such drugs. Bottom line: dose in moderation. 40-80mcg/day should provide you all the clen you need to take advantage of its lipolytic and anti-catabolic effects without immediately giving your myocytes a Grade-A mauling.

Along similar lines, if work capacity—particularly aerobic—is a high priority for you, you’d do well to shop for a different diet drug (if not several). Clocking more cardio hours each week than strength training time? Consider your Spiropent privileges revoked if you aren’t stepping on stage for a contest a week from Tuesday. For starters, it stands to assume than any drug that can potentially exert significantly deleterious effects on the human heart isn’t prime weight-loss material for anybody needing iron aortas and slow, steady cardiac contractions to get them through that next triathlon or road-race.

Additionally, animal studies indicate that clenbuterol administration decreases muscle oxidative potential and expenditure efficiency, perhaps by preferentially increasing nonmitochondrial proteins &/or altering fiber-content (1,2). Reductions in cardiac capacity and structure, as well as VO2max, also seem to be implicated (3). And although in some studies consistent exercise training has been able to counteract some of clen’s performance-reducing effects, the general scientific consensus remains that chronic clenbuterol treatment is directly antagonistic to exercise performance in animals (4). In non-asthmatic humans, there is very little to indicate that beta-agonist drugs will improve anaerobic or aerobic work capacity (5,6,7).

So at low doses, you are at best breaking even. At high-doses, it is far more likely that your performance will be hampered and/or harmed through marked increases in systolic blood-pressure and impairment of the anaerobic expenditure process (8,9). This would hold particularly true in regards to activities like HIIT cardio and intensive, low-rest interval weight training.

Moreover, as previously noted in Part I, consistent clenbuterol use invariably leads to direct decreases in intracellular taurine and potassium concentrations (10) at higher doses. Taurine, as an important osmoregulator of cell-volume, is a very important asset to performance and plays a key role in signal transduction, muscle contraction, cardio-protection, protein synthesis, and cellular hydration in general (11,12,13,14). Thus, taurine supplementation in the 3-5g/day range should be considered an essential adjunct to clenbuterol use. Potassium supplementation, or a diet containing plenty of potassium-rich foods, would also likely help attenuate some of clenbuterol’s antagonistic effects towards exercise performance.

Lastly, we arrive at the issue of functional downregulation with the beta2 receptor. Given clen’s agonistic potency, and the differing molecular structure of the beta2 receptor as opposed to its beta1 and beta3 counterparts, it is only a matter of time in all chronic clenbuterol users before almost complete, system-wide desensitization of the beta2 receptor-class sets in (15,16). More specifically, in rats undergoing high-dose (4 mg/kg) clenbuterol treatment, soleus and medial gastrocnemius tests showed a 40-45% decrease in total beta-adrenergic receptor density, with the entirety of the decrease coming from beta2 desensitization (17;18).


Brotologists Run for Your Lives… It’s Science!!!

The specific mechanisms responsible for adrenergic downregulation of the beta2 seem to be heavily G-protein implicated (18). More specifically, researchers speculate that the process begins with the uncoupling of the receptor’s heterotrimeric G after acute exposure to the agonist (19). Eventually, with enough chronic stimulation, the receptor/arrestin [note: arrestins are proteins which can bind or uncouple heterotrimeric G proteins from G protein-coupled receptors] complex, which would normally be recycled to the cellular membrane after exposure to the agonist is halted, is instead translocated to the lysosomes (20).

Lysosomes, for those not aware, are essentially the unheralded cousins of the peroxisomes. While the peroxisomes tend to get all the shine because the PPARs are so pivotal in regulating metabolic substrate oxidation and adipocyte differentiation, the lysosomes are the guys who tend to handle the cellular ‘grunt work’—eating up bacteria, decaying organelles, and other byproducts your cell doesn’t really want hanging around in there. In this case, with chronic clenbuterol exposure, your cell doesn’t want your beta2 receptors hanging around anymore, and the lysosomes eventually just start taking them out, Mafioso-style, in a process known in “Whachu’ talkin’ bout Willis?” terms as ‘homologous desensitization.’ And, just like that, beta2-mediated lipolysis is suddenly closed for business. My. How the tables have turned.

Synthesizing Our Savvy and Dialing it All In

At this point, you should have a pretty good understanding of clenbuterol, in terms of its effects and mechanisms. So let’s put principle into practice and discuss how to take the plunge without going off the deep end.

Dosage

40-80mcg/day. If you are a newcomer to clenbuterol, start with an even lower dosage (10-20mcg) and assess your tolerance. Titration of dosing need be utilized only in regards to tolerance: if you know you can handle 60mcg of clenbuterol per day, and that’s your target, then get to that dosage as fast as possible and keep it there. There is no pragmatic need to ‘pyramid’ or ‘taper’ clenbuterol use above and beyond the stimulation factor, once you know the dosage you can tolerate and have selected an amount to run. And remember: because of the long, biphasic half-life, clenbuterol builds up in your system, a la DNP. A 40mcg dose on Monday noon and a second 40mcg dose the very next day means you’re already going to have circa ~60mcg active in your system after just two days, so bear that in mind.

Cycling

In my personal opinion, clenbuterol cycles are best kept to about 7 days in duration before cycling off for at least an equal period of time. Granted, based on the literature, you’ll still have significant catecholamine-mediated lipolysis kicking around in that second week, but—and again, taking half-life into consideration—your beta2s are going to definitely be cashed out by the end of week 2. Thus, rather than exposing yourself to significant temporary down-regulation at all (as well as the negative systemic effects, which will only be aggravated as the drug continues to build up in your system), why not use clenbuterol in more of a precise manner and get big-time bang for your buck?

Anecdotally, 99% of clenbuterol users say their first cycle was the ill na na, and subsequent cycles were far less effective at drastically influencing body-composition. Whether there is any merit to this notion or not, the fact of the matter remains that some fraction of the first, full-fledged receptor-desensitization that clenbuterol elicits may be irreversible, a supposition which lends even more credence to the idea of shorter and/or lower-dosed cycles. And remember, always take at least as much off time from clenbuterol as you spend on it.

Stacking


Much to my chagrin, chances are if you’re using clenbuterol in the first place you pretty much have no reservations about what you do to your body to achieve your fat-loss results. And by that same token, chances are you have no qualms with stacking a 1Fast400’s inventory-shelf worth of supplements alongside it just for the sake of expediting things a tad. So, for the sake of getting you conveniently cut ASAP so you can get the hell off the drug, here’s the stuff you want to look into:

Green Tea Extract: EGCG, the principal active ‘weight-loss catechin’ in green tea is a catecholamine-O-methyltransferase (COMT) inhibitor. COMT is an enzyme which metabolizes catecholamines peripherally. Inhibiting COMT potentiates catecholamine-induced thermogenesis.

PhenoGen: GPA, one of the three actives in PhenoGen, when administered concurrently with clenbuterol decreases clenbuterol-treatment-only impairments in response to exercise-induced increases in GLUT4 protein concentrations. GPA also increases beta-adrenergic receptor density in skeletal muscle, giving you more adrenergic receptors for clenbuterol to agonize, thereby accelerating its fat-burning properties.

T3/Trimax/Triac/etc: While the author of this article loathes synthetic thyroid modulation with a passion, he does admit that it makes for a pretty ridiculous one-two fat-burning punch when combined with clenbuterol. T3, like GPA, upregulates beta-adrenergic receptor density in skeletal muscle. Additionally, T3 also increases uncoupling protein (UCP) expression in the mitochondria (thereby increasing metabolic rate and cellular respiration) and accelerates substrate-cycling/reformation in stored TAGs. Thirdly, as a potent anti-catabolic agent, clenbuterol also makes a good adjunct to the immensely catabolic T3, given its abilities to attenuate proteolysis, particularly that which takes place in the ubiquitin-proteasome pathway.

H.E.A.T. Stack: This one, while it might not occur too many, makes significant practical sense assuming one is knowledgeable about his or her stimulant tolerance and is aware of the potential risks. The simple gist is that clenbuterol’s lipolytic effects are predominately beta2-mediated. Adding H.E.A.T. Stack in conjunction will allow the user to markedly increase beta1 and beta3 mediated lipolysis simultaneously, thereby creating a bonafide peripheral lipolytic jamboree, in addition to providing some much-needed appetite suppression—one of clenbuterol’s significant pharmacological shortcomings when it comes to dieting.

Miserly, risk-prone bastards could also use E/C in place of H.E.A.T. Stack, assuming they have no problems knowing that they are antagonizing the fed state and putting themselves at a much higher risk of negative cardiac and/or blood-pressure related interactions, both of which would be well above and beyond what one would be dealing with when using the much more benign and—dare I say—“classy” *wink* H.E.A.T. Stack.

Ketotifen: A pharma anti-histamine that attenuates clenbuterol-induced beta2 receptor desensitization, allowing you to stay on longer and keep the ball rolling on lipolysis. Note: hopefully you will realize this is not necessarily an entirely a good thing. Also, please actually research this drug before just going out and getting all polypharmacological in the name of a never-ending clen cycle.

And That’s Almost All She Wrote

And thus we arrive at the end of our M&M examination of clenbuterol…

PSYCHE!!!!

No, but with all seriousness, for the sake of this article meeting its deadline, this will conclude Pharmaceutical Phenotype Enhancement’s general installment on the diet drug clenbuterol. However, because I said at the end of Part I that I planned on discussing clen’s neurological effects, as well as its potential role as a curative for certain pathologies, and because I’m not a pathological liar, look for a “Clenbuterol Addendum” to pop up in good old Issue #30. Yes, I know. I live to give; I love my fans and puppy dogs very much; I am a Leo; I find Sprite’s cool, crisp, lemon-limey flavor very refreshing; and please direct all fan male to my secretary and Avant eunuch, Robboe. Cheers all.
 

Tom 185

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great posting fireproof..

i'm a little confused now though since i've heard so many contradicting theories
 
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great posting fireproof..

i'm a little confused now though since i've heard so many contradicting theories
I know. Such is the case with experimental stuff like this. I personally don't go longer than 2-weeks without at least a 2-week break.

Good luck.
 
MaDmaN

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Well im on my 3rd cycle of clen and have dropped 16 pounds in 8 weeks..Im doing 2 weeks on 10 days off but im going to go 1 week on and 1 week off..Im also taking DCP and yohimbine + clean diet low GI carbs.I am very impressed with the results and do to a bad ankle no arobics.My strength is great benching 245 incline for 10 clean reps and feeling pretty good.The side effects were not bad at all as a matter of fact they were much less than the old ECA stack..No crash and burn a little jitters but not bad at all...
 
ShapeUP

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the point of tapering down is just like caffeine...you will have withdrawl symptoms if you dont

you can taper down faster than you taper up but definitely still taper down...for example

after your last day at 80mcg
2 days at 60
1 day at 40
1 day at 20
I know this is old, but I just got here again. heh.

THis makes sense though. I haven't experienced withdrawls from caffiene or ephedra, but clen is alot more powerfull SO that makes sense.
 
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Well im on my 3rd cycle of clen and have dropped 16 pounds in 8 weeks..Im doing 2 weeks on 10 days off but im going to go 1 week on and 1 week off..Im also taking DCP and yohimbine + clean diet low GI carbs.I am very impressed with the results and do to a bad ankle no arobics.My strength is great benching 245 incline for 10 clean reps and feeling pretty good.The side effects were not bad at all as a matter of fact they were much less than the old ECA stack..No crash and burn a little jitters but not bad at all...
Wow, that's impressive fat loss man.
 
MaDmaN

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Wow, that's impressive fat loss man.
Thanks

I think so, being in this game along time,it's all fat too my waist went from 40 to 38 and I need a belt plus all shirts in the shoulder and chest area are tight..I also noticed that this stuff seems to be protien sparing meaning im getting bigger at the same time..

PS: keep in mind I have been training for years and took a couple of years off and let myself go to **** so alot of it is muscle memory.I will keep ya posted.
 
live4fitness

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More questions please :)

Today took 25 did not feel anything like yesterday but REAL strong in the gym. This afternoon took 50 and still felt nothing but now after drinking a cup of coffee a little gittery. Should you take on an empty stomach? Now I am taking a liquid which after getting found out it tends to not work as good. Any coments on that? I do appreciate all the info y'all give.
 

Tom 185

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More questions please :)

Today took 25 did not feel anything like yesterday but REAL strong in the gym. This afternoon took 50 and still felt nothing but now after drinking a cup of coffee a little gittery. Should you take on an empty stomach? Now I am taking a liquid which after getting found out it tends to not work as good. Any coments on that? I do appreciate all the info y'all give.
i would try your best to avoid caffeine while using clen.

you only need to dose it once per day

it doesn't have to be on an empty stomach like thyroid hormones
 
live4fitness

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i would try your best to avoid caffeine while using clen.

you only need to dose it once per day

it doesn't have to be on an empty stomach like thyroid hormones
How do know if it is working? What I mean is I keep expecting to get jittery and I am not. Do you know if the liquid is any good? Why only once a day? Should I bump up to 75 or 100 tomorrow?

Thanks
 

Tom 185

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How do know if it is working? What I mean is I keep expecting to get jittery and I am not. Do you know if the liquid is any good? Why only once a day? Should I bump up to 75 or 100 tomorrow?

Thanks
If you got it from IBE it is real. If you are getting jittery then ur dosage is too high...bump up SLOWLY until as much as u can handle...prob 80-100mcg...liquid is just as good as pills..ingested orally either way...only once a day because of it's half-life...u should be bumping from 20 up to about 80 like i originally posted
 
live4fitness

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If you got it from IBE it is real. If you are getting jittery then ur dosage is too high...bump up SLOWLY until as much as u can handle...prob 80-100mcg...liquid is just as good as pills..ingested orally either way...only once a day because of it's half-life...u should be bumping from 20 up to about 80 like i originally posted
Thank you so much!!!!
 

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