17-Methyl 1-Test

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    17-Methyl 1-Test


    http://www.vialsandcrimpers.com/page20.html

    What are your guys thoughts on this? I saw curt post something about methylated 1-test and was wondering if this is what he was talking about?

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    Probably a killer on the liver.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Probably a killer on the liver.

    Probably. But it will be orally active.
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    im sold
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    I may get some, not sure yet. It could be hard on the liver yes, but I'm thinking with some Milk Thistle, vitamin C, and r-ala....down the hatch!!
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    This is why ph's are probably going to be banned. Isnt that the same oral deliver as d-bol? If so why wouldnt you just go with transdermal?
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    ????????? Why go with transdermal if the price is right? We are all about saving money, would be harder on the liver as most orals are but you'd only run it for 4 weeks or so anyways. Ph's have been on the brink of getting band for a long time, all these companies are coming out with different versions to milk it for what its worth for the time being. I don't think this would have any outcome on the banning of ph's IMO.
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    its orally active and easier than rubbing a gel on urself 2x a day
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    I would need to see the hepatic toxicity levels before even considering it. There are somethings that are just not worth the negatives that they can produce. Their is little reason to deviate from the bread and butter of either the PH or AAS sides of life ever. The basics will make you grow and keep you healty as long as you dont screw up!
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    WHo said I didnt like saving money? I have a lifestyle to maintain here. Anyways if I were going to take a ph that damages my liver as much as d-bol......Id rather just take d-bol. WHy wouldnt you just up the grams of 1-test in a transdermal and get the same effects? I know rubbing on a trans twice a day gets old after a while, but its usually only for 4 weeks, and is way less stressful on your liver. But then again I dont have a BA in prohormoneology, so I could be wrong.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    I would need to see the hepatic toxicity levels before even considering it. There are somethings that are just not worth the negatives that they can produce. Their is little reason to deviate from the bread and butter of either the PH or AAS sides of life ever. The basics will make you grow and keep you healty as long as you dont screw up!
    What oral AAS has shown to be hepatoxic?
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    Originally posted by Jedi Master
    WHo said I didnt like saving money? I have a lifestyle to maintain here. Anyways if I were going to take a ph that damages my liver as much as d-bol......Id rather just take d-bol. WHy wouldnt you just up the grams of 1-test in a transdermal and get the same effects? I know rubbing on a trans twice a day gets old after a while, but its usually only for 4 weeks, and is way less stressful on your liver. But then again I dont have a BA in prohormoneology, so I could be wrong.
    Yes you are wrong. Show me one study showing D-bol to be hepatoxic when used properly? Actually better yet show me one study using D-Rol that shows it to be hepatoxic.

    You people need to stop spreading these bull**** myths about your liver failling out and how bad orals are on your liver. It has no basis whatsoever.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    What oral AAS has shown to be hepatoxic?
    Some things are harder than others on the ole' liver. I would like to see where 17AA 1T falls in this spectrum.
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    Originally posted by Jedi Master
    WHo said I didnt like saving money? I have a lifestyle to maintain here. Anyways if I were going to take a ph that damages my liver as much as d-bol......Id rather just take d-bol. WHy wouldnt you just up the grams of 1-test in a transdermal and get the same effects? I know rubbing on a trans twice a day gets old after a while, but its usually only for 4 weeks, and is way less stressful on your liver. But then again I dont have a BA in prohormoneology, so I could be wrong.
    Yeah, but many use ph's for the legal alternative. D-bol also is a different drug alltogether, 1-test is cleaner for gains etc.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    You people need to stop spreading these bull**** myths about your liver failling out and how bad orals are on your liver. It has no basis whatsoever.
    Agreed bobo.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    You people need to stop spreading these bull**** myths about your liver failling out and how bad orals are on your liver. It has no basis whatsoever.
    Define you people....
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    Originally posted by windwords7


    Some things are harder than others on the ole' liver. I would like to see where 17AA 1T falls in this spectrum.
    Some things are harder on the liver because of the doses used. D-Rol is harder because you take 100-150mg/day. It depends on the molecular weight. THere isn't some magic property of D-rol that makes it more toxic.
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    Originally posted by windwords7


    Define you people....
    People that claim orals are hepatoxic and that orals cause liver damage. They stress the liver more just like alcohol and a million other things. Abuse cause liver damage, not some magic property of oral steroids.
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    All I'm saying is that some things are harder on the body than others and yes its dosage dependant. Drink in moderation and your fine, drink in excess and you can damage yourself. HOWEVER, drinking excess in beer is NOT as likely to cause damage than driking excess of Jack. That's what I mean by spectrum of ability to cause damage.
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    They are harder on the body because of the amount. Compare the amount of Jack you do compared to the amount beer. So claiming 1-test is harder on the liver isn't accurate because the dosage needed is less. There isn't one case of hepatoxicity of orals steroids. The only remotely close is a 14yr old girl taking 100's of mg of D-rol for some disease she had. And she took if for years and had preexisting liver problems. AIDS patients use orals everyday (var) so if it was that bad, they wouldn't be taking it.


    ""here is our discusion with a gifted chemist :

    >do you think liver toxicity of orals has to do with number of >molcules or each
    oral has different toxicity rate regardless of >number of molcules ?

    the amount of liver stress is equal for any
    steroid, but not with respect to milligrams, but with respect to molecules. You
    know, every different steroid has a slightly different molecular weight, and
    this you will have to take into account. Furazabol, OT and stanozolol are MUCH
    heavier per molecule than methyltestosterone, for example, so 50mg of OT are
    less toxic than 50mg of Methyltest. See, the always-claimed extreme toxicity of
    oxymetholone is mainly due to the high doses that are commonly taken - most
    athletes use 100-150mg per day, whereas 25-30mg of DBol are a common dosage.

    >i mean is 50 mg of oxemtheolone less toxic than 50 mg of >methandienone ?

    Their molecular weight it quite similar, so you can compare liver toxicity of
    both.

    >also do you know anything on methlytrienbolone ? i heard dose is >only 2 mg ?

    No, effective dose is 5-15 mg a day. For mibolerone (cheque drops) it is much
    less as this is only used for mental effects (makes you extremely aggressive;
    Mike Tyson is said to have it used before the ear-bite).

    >how is it possible Oxandrolone is sythesised outside of liver >and less toxic
    as said by grundig in his book ? i think its not true because i can not find any
    info backing this and research on aids patients by Medline say its more toxic
    than oxymetholone on per mg basis ..

    What Grundig says is definitely wrong. I donīt know about liver toxicity of
    oxandrolone exactly, as oxandrolone has a modified steroid backbone and is
    therefore metabolized by a different pathway, I think."
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    People that claim orals are hepatoxic and that orals cause liver damage. They stress the liver more just like alcohol and a million other things. Abuse cause liver damage, not some magic property of oral steroids.
    Please get on some Clomid, go watch Beaches, have a good cry, and calm down!!
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    I said its dosage dependant within reason.
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    Originally posted by windwords7


    Please get on some Clomid, go watch Beaches, have a good cry, and calm down!!
    Don't yell at me because you didn't know the facts. Its people that don't understand these principle that perpetuate the myths. Don't be one of those people.
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    I understand it, but heres what it boils down to Winny, Dbol, I'm down for that. Methyl test, Methyl tren, no way, not ever.

    I never said you should not use orals or that they were more dangerous than any other steriod. FACT all steriods can be dangerous. Some more so than others because some it takes less to **** up with and/or a body that is already weakend by some deficency unknown to the user is likey to reap serious consequences using certain drugs over others.

    That's why Dr's don't prescribe you Serzone if your known to have a liver issue or have elevated enzymes. It's not that other AD's wont effect the liver but they wont effect the liver like Serzone can/will. All drugs that have to be broken down by liver enzymes (which is of course all of them) are potentialy hard on the liver but some are harder than others due to the amount of work the liver has to do.
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    Here's that study. I got the number wrong on the dosage but she took it for years.

    Multiple hepatic adenomas caused by long-term administration of androgenic steroids for aplastic anemia in association with familial adenomatous polyposis.

    Nakao A, Sakagami K, Nakata Y, Komazawa K, Amimoto T, Nakashima K, Isozaki H, Takakura N, Tanaka N.

    Department of Surgery, Shobara Red Cross Hospital, Japan.

    We report a rare case of hepatic adenomas (HA), in a 20-year-old Japanese girl treated for 6 years with anabolic androgens for aplastic anemia. In a review of the world literature using computer MEDLINE search, we found only 17 cases of androgen-induced HA published between 1975 and 1998 in the English-language literature. The patient was referred to us because of liver lesions detected during a follow-up examination for familial adenomatous polyposis. After being diagnosed with aplastic anemia at 14 years of age, she had been treated with oxymetholone (30 mg/day) for 6 years. Laboratory evaluation revealed normal liver function. Ultrasonography (US) and computed tomography (CT) demonstrated multiple liver lesions. Histopathological examinations of biopsied specimens from the liver tumor showed HA. After the patient was diagnosed with HA, oxymetholone was tapered off. Patients taking androgenic-anabolic steroids should be carefully monitored with US and CT and tumor markers should be measured. This report may be helpful in identifying the population who is at risk of developing hepatic sex hormone-related tumors.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    Yes you are wrong. Show me one study showing D-bol to be hepatoxic when used properly? Actually better yet show me one study using D-Rol that shows it to be hepatoxic.

    You people need to stop spreading these bull**** myths about your liver failling out and how bad orals are on your liver. It has no basis whatsoever.
    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    I never said anyones liver fell out after oral steroids where taken. I thought it was just an understood fact the 17methly group of steroids puts an extraordinary strain on the liver. I never said you would need a liver transplant after a cycle of orals, but after long term use of oral steroids you will probably have a problem. I cant dig up a study right now about d-bol being hepatoxic to your liver, I have a house warming party to go to. Im sure Bobo, you could find a countless number of such claims by using a search engine called Google.

    With that being said, quit pinching my buttons, slacker.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    That's why Dr's don't prescribe you Serzone if your known to have a liver issue or have elevated enzymes. It's not that other AD's wont effect the liver but they wont effect the liver like Serzone can/will. All drugs that have to be broken down by liver enzymes are potentialy hard on the liver but some are harder than others due to the amount of work the liver has to do.
    We're not talking about other drugs. We're talking about AAS and there is NO difference. The method of making it a 17-AA is the same for ALL of them. Its a fact. Its dependent on molecular weight and dosage. Thats it. Methytren and methy-1-test will be no more or no less because the amount needed /day is small. Gram for gram it is more toxic, but you only need 15mg/day of methyl tren compared to 100-150/day of d-rol. The results in liver stress will be the same as long as you follow the right doses. People saying it will be more or less toxic don't know the facts.
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    So the compound that is being methylated plays NO role?
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    Let's put this in perspective, anyone have a guess as to a good dose of oral 1-test?
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    Originally posted by Jedi Master


    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    I never said anyones liver fell out after oral steroids where taken. I thought it was just an understood fact the 17methly group of steroids puts an extraordinary strain on the liver. I never said you would need a liver transplant after a cycle of orals, but after long term use of oral steroids you will probably have a problem. I cant dig up a study right now about d-bol being hepatoxic to your liver, I have a house warming party to go to. Im sure Bobo, you could find a countless number of such claims by using a search engine called Google.

    With that being said, quit pinching my buttons, slacker.
    Then find it genius because I bet you any amount of money it doesn't exist. You said D-bol causes liver damage and it doesn't. Until you know WTF your talking about then quit posting and STFU.

    Sorry I don't use google. I use a search engine thats medically applicable unlike you.

    It seems the slacker is you since you don't understand the basic principles of hepatoxocity.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    So the compound that is being methylated plays NO role?
    Ask yourself this then?

    Does tren cause liver damage?

    Does test cause liver damage?

    Does EQ cause liver damage (closest molecualr to D-bol)?

    The 17-AA cause the majority of stress. The compound's stress is negigable and different for everything just like its different between water, soda, or beer.
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    Originally posted by Jedi Master


    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    People that lack understanding but continue to post on the subject always strike a nerve.
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    Originally posted by jweave23
    Let's put this in perspective, anyone have a guess as to a good dose of oral 1-test?
    25 mg daily for a good starting dose and up to 50 mg daily for the more experimentally natured.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by Chemo


    25 mg daily for a good starting dose and up to 50 mg daily for the more experimentally natured.

    Chemo
    Thanks Chemo. They're selling it in 20mg tabs, so I'd imagine 1 or 2 daily would do the trick. We'll see how this ends up
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    its a fact most studies on the 17aa aas's were done on bed ridden patients who were administered them over years
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    For those interested:

    Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal.

    Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.

    Netherlands Centre for Doping Affairs (NeCeDo), Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

    The purpose of this study was to investigate in a cross-sectional design body composition, muscle fiber characteristics, cardiovascular risk factors and liver enzymes in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal (AAS group; n = 16) and in non-users (CO group; n = 12). Training and dietary data were collected in all subjects. Anthropometry included weight, height, 8 skinfolds and 11 circumferences. Percentage fat (%FAT), fat mass (FM) and lean body mass (LBM) were calculated. In a muscle biopsy from the vastus lateralis muscle water content, fiber type distribution and diameters of fiber type I and type II were determined. Age, height, training characteristics, nutrition, skinfolds, %FAT and FM did not differ between the groups. The AAS group had greater BW and LBM, and larger circumferences of thorax, waist, upper arm and thigh than the CO group. Muscle biopsy data were comparable, except for muscle fiber diameter of type I which was larger in the AAS group. No differences in serum values of total cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides, nor in systolic and diastolic blood pressure were observed. In both groups serum alkaline phosphatase and gamma GT were within the normal range. This study suggests that in long term AAS using body-builders, after a three months AAS free period, BW is greater than in non drug users. This is reflected in larger LBM, circumferences and diameter of muscle fiber type I. In addition, no differences in fat mass, blood pressure, lipoprotein profiles and liver enzymes exist between AAS users three months after interrupted drug use and their non drug using counterparts.


    Commentary: Steroids and the Liver (see update below - August, 1999)
    by Michael Mooney
    from Issue No. 1
    After my original interview with Dr. Jekot, at the beginning of my anabolic steroid research related to AIDS, I checked the literature for liver problems associated with anabolic steroids. It was easy to corroborate what Dr. Jekot had said in his study in AIDS Patient Care.1 The problem of liver toxicity is exaggerated. That is, while oral 17-alkylated steroids are sometimes associated with liver toxicity, the common oil-based injectables don't present the same kind of liver burden.2 Indeed, this has been the observation of several other doctors familiar with anabolic steroid therapy for AIDS, like Dr. Julian Gold,3 and Dr. Caroline Becker, an endocrinologist with a large practice in Mt. Kisco, N.Y., who underlined this when she said, "Even with individuals with pre-existing liver disease I would have no compunction in giving them injectable testosterone."4

    References:


    Jekot WF, et al. Treating HIV/AIDS patients with anabolic steroids. AIDS Patient Care, 1993 (April) 7; 2: 11-17.
    Marquardt GH, et al, Failure of non-17-alkylated steroids to produce abnormal liver function tests. J Clin Endo Metab, 1964; 24:1334-1336.
    AIDS Treatment News, Jan. 1, 1993;166:5
    Family Practice, Oct. 10, 1994, p. 36
    Update - August, 1999

    The study that follows suggests anabolic steroid-induced liver toxicity may be exaggerated. The blood tests that are commonly thought to indicate liver toxicity, ALT (SGOT) and AST (SGPT) were elevated in both drug-free bodybuilders and drug-using bodybuilders. Patients with the liver disease hepatitis experienced similar enzyme elevations, but also had elevated GGT. The authors say that unless GGT is also elevated, elevations in ALT and AST may not accurately indicate liver toxicity. For instance, they can indicate muscle damage after exercising.

    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?
    Dickerman RD; Pertusi RM; Zachariah NY; Dufour DR; McConathy WJ.
    Clin J Sport Med, 9(1):34-9 1999 Jan.

    Abstract OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders. DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis. PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels.

    RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.

    CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.
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  37. Gold Member
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    hehe jedi looks like ur wookie got smacked..sorry couldnt resist
  38. Registered User
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    oral steroids do cause some liver damage however, the extent to which everyone talks about it is higly exagerated. someone finishing a six week cycle containing halostein (the most liver toxic steroid) will probably have elevated liver values. however, it would take years of high dosing to create conditions in the liver that warrant a liver transplant. furthermore, if propper precautions are taking ie. not drinking or using other liver toxic substances and taking supplements such as liv-52, any incidence of liver damage can be avoided, unless using ludicrisly high dosages. for example, power lifters reportedly use higher and higher doses of anadrol until there eyes turn yellow. at that point they start to lower there dosages. that with the combination of the gram doses of test they use weekly explains why they dont live very long. this product would pretty much eliminate the need for cyclo-test. it should be interesting to see how this works in real world applications
  39. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
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    Methytrienolone is more toxic than Halo but even thats exaggerated. Its all exaggerated.
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  40. Banned
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    People that lack understanding but continue to post on the subject always strike a nerve.
    Ah, you are being facetious again.

    Where did we get off on the wrong foot my friend? Me calling you a slacker was purely in a joking manner. It is hard to distinguish if someone is joking or not in a post.

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