17-Methyl 1-Test

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  1. Originally posted by Bobo


    Yes you are wrong. Show me one study showing D-bol to be hepatoxic when used properly? Actually better yet show me one study using D-Rol that shows it to be hepatoxic.

    You people need to stop spreading these bull**** myths about your liver failling out and how bad orals are on your liver. It has no basis whatsoever.
    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    I never said anyones liver fell out after oral steroids where taken. I thought it was just an understood fact the 17methly group of steroids puts an extraordinary strain on the liver. I never said you would need a liver transplant after a cycle of orals, but after long term use of oral steroids you will probably have a problem. I cant dig up a study right now about d-bol being hepatoxic to your liver, I have a house warming party to go to. Im sure Bobo, you could find a countless number of such claims by using a search engine called Google.

    With that being said, quit pinching my buttons, slacker.


  2. Originally posted by windwords7
    That's why Dr's don't prescribe you Serzone if your known to have a liver issue or have elevated enzymes. It's not that other AD's wont effect the liver but they wont effect the liver like Serzone can/will. All drugs that have to be broken down by liver enzymes are potentialy hard on the liver but some are harder than others due to the amount of work the liver has to do.
    We're not talking about other drugs. We're talking about AAS and there is NO difference. The method of making it a 17-AA is the same for ALL of them. Its a fact. Its dependent on molecular weight and dosage. Thats it. Methytren and methy-1-test will be no more or no less because the amount needed /day is small. Gram for gram it is more toxic, but you only need 15mg/day of methyl tren compared to 100-150/day of d-rol. The results in liver stress will be the same as long as you follow the right doses. People saying it will be more or less toxic don't know the facts.
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  3. So the compound that is being methylated plays NO role?

  4. Let's put this in perspective, anyone have a guess as to a good dose of oral 1-test?

  5. Originally posted by Jedi Master


    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    I never said anyones liver fell out after oral steroids where taken. I thought it was just an understood fact the 17methly group of steroids puts an extraordinary strain on the liver. I never said you would need a liver transplant after a cycle of orals, but after long term use of oral steroids you will probably have a problem. I cant dig up a study right now about d-bol being hepatoxic to your liver, I have a house warming party to go to. Im sure Bobo, you could find a countless number of such claims by using a search engine called Google.

    With that being said, quit pinching my buttons, slacker.
    Then find it genius because I bet you any amount of money it doesn't exist. You said D-bol causes liver damage and it doesn't. Until you know WTF your talking about then quit posting and STFU.

    Sorry I don't use google. I use a search engine thats medically applicable unlike you.

    It seems the slacker is you since you don't understand the basic principles of hepatoxocity.
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  6. Originally posted by windwords7
    So the compound that is being methylated plays NO role?
    Ask yourself this then?

    Does tren cause liver damage?

    Does test cause liver damage?

    Does EQ cause liver damage (closest molecualr to D-bol)?

    The 17-AA cause the majority of stress. The compound's stress is negigable and different for everything just like its different between water, soda, or beer.
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  7. Originally posted by Jedi Master


    Whoops, did I strike a nerve?

    People that lack understanding but continue to post on the subject always strike a nerve.
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  8. Originally posted by jweave23
    Let's put this in perspective, anyone have a guess as to a good dose of oral 1-test?
    25 mg daily for a good starting dose and up to 50 mg daily for the more experimentally natured.

    Chemo

  9. Originally posted by Chemo


    25 mg daily for a good starting dose and up to 50 mg daily for the more experimentally natured.

    Chemo
    Thanks Chemo. They're selling it in 20mg tabs, so I'd imagine 1 or 2 daily would do the trick. We'll see how this ends up

  10. its a fact most studies on the 17aa aas's were done on bed ridden patients who were administered them over years

  11. For those interested:

    Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal.

    Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.

    Netherlands Centre for Doping Affairs (NeCeDo), Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

    The purpose of this study was to investigate in a cross-sectional design body composition, muscle fiber characteristics, cardiovascular risk factors and liver enzymes in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal (AAS group; n = 16) and in non-users (CO group; n = 12). Training and dietary data were collected in all subjects. Anthropometry included weight, height, 8 skinfolds and 11 circumferences. Percentage fat (%FAT), fat mass (FM) and lean body mass (LBM) were calculated. In a muscle biopsy from the vastus lateralis muscle water content, fiber type distribution and diameters of fiber type I and type II were determined. Age, height, training characteristics, nutrition, skinfolds, %FAT and FM did not differ between the groups. The AAS group had greater BW and LBM, and larger circumferences of thorax, waist, upper arm and thigh than the CO group. Muscle biopsy data were comparable, except for muscle fiber diameter of type I which was larger in the AAS group. No differences in serum values of total cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides, nor in systolic and diastolic blood pressure were observed. In both groups serum alkaline phosphatase and gamma GT were within the normal range. This study suggests that in long term AAS using body-builders, after a three months AAS free period, BW is greater than in non drug users. This is reflected in larger LBM, circumferences and diameter of muscle fiber type I. In addition, no differences in fat mass, blood pressure, lipoprotein profiles and liver enzymes exist between AAS users three months after interrupted drug use and their non drug using counterparts.


    Commentary: Steroids and the Liver (see update below - August, 1999)
    by Michael Mooney
    from Issue No. 1
    After my original interview with Dr. Jekot, at the beginning of my anabolic steroid research related to AIDS, I checked the literature for liver problems associated with anabolic steroids. It was easy to corroborate what Dr. Jekot had said in his study in AIDS Patient Care.1 The problem of liver toxicity is exaggerated. That is, while oral 17-alkylated steroids are sometimes associated with liver toxicity, the common oil-based injectables don't present the same kind of liver burden.2 Indeed, this has been the observation of several other doctors familiar with anabolic steroid therapy for AIDS, like Dr. Julian Gold,3 and Dr. Caroline Becker, an endocrinologist with a large practice in Mt. Kisco, N.Y., who underlined this when she said, "Even with individuals with pre-existing liver disease I would have no compunction in giving them injectable testosterone."4

    References:


    Jekot WF, et al. Treating HIV/AIDS patients with anabolic steroids. AIDS Patient Care, 1993 (April) 7; 2: 11-17.
    Marquardt GH, et al, Failure of non-17-alkylated steroids to produce abnormal liver function tests. J Clin Endo Metab, 1964; 24:1334-1336.
    AIDS Treatment News, Jan. 1, 1993;166:5
    Family Practice, Oct. 10, 1994, p. 36
    Update - August, 1999

    The study that follows suggests anabolic steroid-induced liver toxicity may be exaggerated. The blood tests that are commonly thought to indicate liver toxicity, ALT (SGOT) and AST (SGPT) were elevated in both drug-free bodybuilders and drug-using bodybuilders. Patients with the liver disease hepatitis experienced similar enzyme elevations, but also had elevated GGT. The authors say that unless GGT is also elevated, elevations in ALT and AST may not accurately indicate liver toxicity. For instance, they can indicate muscle damage after exercising.

    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?
    Dickerman RD; Pertusi RM; Zachariah NY; Dufour DR; McConathy WJ.
    Clin J Sport Med, 9(1):34-9 1999 Jan.

    Abstract OBJECTIVE: There have been numerous reports of hepatic dysfunction secondary to anabolic steroid use based on elevated levels of serum aminotransferases. This study was conducted to distinguish between serum aminotransaminase elevations secondary to intense resistance training and anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity in elite bodybuilders. DESIGN: This was a case-control study of serum chemistry profiles from bodybuilders using and not using anabolic steroids with comparisons to a cohort of medical students and patients with hepatitis. PARTICIPANTS: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and nonexercising medical students (592) were used as controls. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The focus in blood chemistry profiles was aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels.

    RESULTS: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.

    CONCLUSION: Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment.
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  12. hehe jedi looks like ur wookie got smacked..sorry couldnt resist

  13. oral steroids do cause some liver damage however, the extent to which everyone talks about it is higly exagerated. someone finishing a six week cycle containing halostein (the most liver toxic steroid) will probably have elevated liver values. however, it would take years of high dosing to create conditions in the liver that warrant a liver transplant. furthermore, if propper precautions are taking ie. not drinking or using other liver toxic substances and taking supplements such as liv-52, any incidence of liver damage can be avoided, unless using ludicrisly high dosages. for example, power lifters reportedly use higher and higher doses of anadrol until there eyes turn yellow. at that point they start to lower there dosages. that with the combination of the gram doses of test they use weekly explains why they dont live very long. this product would pretty much eliminate the need for cyclo-test. it should be interesting to see how this works in real world applications

  14. Methytrienolone is more toxic than Halo but even thats exaggerated. Its all exaggerated.
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  15. Originally posted by Bobo


    People that lack understanding but continue to post on the subject always strike a nerve.
    Ah, you are being facetious again.

    Where did we get off on the wrong foot my friend? Me calling you a slacker was purely in a joking manner. It is hard to distinguish if someone is joking or not in a post.


  16. has anyone contacted these guys about how much their lil product with set us back in the ol' bank account?

  17. Originally posted by Bobo


    People that claim orals are hepatoxic and that orals cause liver damage. They stress the liver more just like alcohol and a million other things. Abuse cause liver damage, not some magic property of oral steroids.
    I have had jaundice on at least one occasion, and high liver enzymes on several others, while taking normal (25-35mg) daily doses of dbol. The c-17aa are most certainly hepatotoxic. This is not a myth. The risks may be extremely overstated, but they legitimately are there.

    - William Llewellyn
    William LlewellynCEO, Molecular NutritionPatented and developed Arachidonic Acid (X-FACTOR™) for Sports Nutrition

  18. So would the use of Milk Thistle and such products like it hinder the availability of 17-Methyl 1 Test?
    I had a conversation a while back with someone about this and they stated that it would.

  19. Wow, I got the pot stirring over at BB.com about this, wanted some more input:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hread****132617

  20. the problem i see with this is not liver toxicity it is legality I have heard that it is not legal to 17AA anything and even if you could it would be very similar chemically to primobolan right? I'm just not sure how the FDA is going to respond to this

  21. Originally posted by jweave23
    Wow, I got the pot stirring over at BB.com about this, wanted some more input:[/URL]
    Nice work Ramrod. Now go order me a Liter of Cola

  22. However you can package tar and nicotine in a cancer stick and sell it.

  23. No one really knows what this will do to your liver. It could be like var or as bad as cheque drops. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, until we get a lot of feed back.

  24. ehhh well tar and nicotine makes the gov millions ans steroids just werent a big enough industry for them to bend their ever flexible morals. I might try these once a lab write up is put out or if one of the really knowledgable boys gave em the ok.

  25. Originally posted by bow


    Nice work Ramrod. Now go order me a Liter of Cola
    LMAO "say car ramrod, say car ramrod!"
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