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Does this make sense? Cycle

bignative22

New member
Hi everyone

I ordered a bottle of epistane the other day (prohormone aka havoc). I chose it because of really nice blood work that people had been getting back and the idea that the gains on it are mostly lean because it has anti-e properties.

I have never done steroids or PH before. I am going to pick up some nolva for post cycle therapy. Someone I know said that I could stand to benefit a lot (since I was a newbie) by running a low dose of test alongside Havoc. My only issue is water retention because I am naturally an endomesomorph and I have put a lot of work into leaning out; I don't want to gain too much fat on this, which is why I chose epistane over say m1t or superdrol (well, that and the liver profile).

Do you guys think that running, say, 250mg of test e alongside this product would be beneficial? For around 8-10 weeks. My goal is to improve strength and lean mass without too much water. I could get prop too if that would be smarter. I am just hoping that the epistane would prevent most of the water retention so I wouldn't have to inject EOD.

If not test, then is there something else I should look into for lean mass/strength without too much water? I don't really wanna run another oral but I don't mind doing other injects; it just seemed like test was the smartest choice.

My original plan for PCT was nolva at 40/40/20/10. If I ran test I would grab some HCG just in case most likely but do I need clomid? Doesn't seem like it with nolva but I'm not too sure.
 
test is awesome! definately run it if you can, the feeling of well being is unreal!

it has some sides of course, but they are all easily dealt with and thoroughly documented, plust test is crazy cheap,

test enan will take a long time to clear your system and people have a hard time doing PCT cause there are small amounts of test still in your system for a very long time that inhibit your naturual production coming back online, prop or cyp clears your system much faster

i would advise you do 500mg of test prop, or cypionate if you think eod shots are too much, 250mg is pretty minimal and if your going to be on for that long might as well make it worth your while, you will probably want to use tor or clomid in PCT, only tor or use clomid and nolva together, look for some of Dr. D's PCT cycles in the PCT section here.

i would never do a cycle longer than 4 weeks without HCG either, its cheap and not hard to get and trust me when i say it is not worth it without it, unless you like gaining fat, losing weight, feeling terrible and some serious limp cack
while coming off!!!

get it, you'll be much happier, making gains is not hard, keeping them is a challenge

if that is your first cycle i wouldn't be surprised to see you gain15lbs easy on that cycle!

have fun and eat eat eat! :burg:
 
Use 100mg of prop EoD for 6 weeks and throw in the Havoc for weeks 3-6. Havoc is a dry steroid and the water retention from test will not be terrible at this dose. This cycle will give you solid gains in both size and strength without being a very "wet" cycle.
 
Rodja said:
Use 100mg of prop EoD for 6 weeks and throw in the Havoc for weeks 3-6. Havoc is a dry steroid and the water retention from test will not be terrible at this dose. This cycle will give you solid gains in both size and strength without being a very "wet" cycle.
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I think I will probably do this, are the EOD injections really as bad as people make them out to be?
 
bignative22 said:
I think I will probably do this, are the EOD injections really as bad as people make them out to be?
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Not really because you will not be injecting a large amount and you can rotate many sites (e.g. delt, quads, glutes); as for pins, use a 20g to draw and a 25g to inject - 1.5" for glutes, 1" for other sites.
 
Even though you don't mention any specifics and probably break no rules, I would personally leave out who you are getting the nolvadex from. Other than that I can't see where the post needs to be edited either???
 
Cardinal said:
Even though you don't mention any specifics and probably break no rules, I would personally leave out who you are getting the nolvadex from. Other than that I can't see where the post needs to be edited either???
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He deleted his post that I was referring to...wise decision or he would have been banned.
 
I don't think you really *need* to run anything along side Epi.

Only if you feel like it - don't feel compelled to though.


Reading your reasons why you chose Epi closer - I would recommend only running it.
 
why are you so against the water? is it just vanity and not wanting to even appear un-lean? because it goes away a couple weeks after cycle end.

and it sounds like you are equating water with fat. while this distinction is blurrier with, say, dbol or drol, it is not so with test. it wont make you fat, bro. only bad diet or excessive estrogen will do that (all else being equal)
 
neverstop said:
test enan will take a long time to clear your system and people have a hard time doing post cycle therapy cause there are small amounts of test still in your system for a very long time that inhibit your naturual production coming back online, prop or cyp clears your system much faster
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test enan and test cyp have virtually identical ester lengths and, therefore, clearance time. i dont know where you got that bad info from, but you should consider discounting that source.
 
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