First Cycle

[randall82]

Hello all. I am new to the forum and I am currently looking into taking my first cycle. I am 24 6" 205lbs. I have been training for 8 years and power lifting for under one year.

I have taken two superdrol cycles and one phera plex cycle with proper post cycle therapy and cycle support through out. I gained and kept 5-10lbs in each cycle.

I have been looking into dianabol however, I am concerned that it will not do much more than the superdrol.

I would like to gain weight to get out of the 198lbs weight class I also want to increase my strength.

I have been on a bulk diet consisting of 7 meals at a total of 5,000 calories for 3 months and I have only maintained my weight.

Any suggestions on a cycle would be great. Thanks

 

[glenihan]

test enan 500mg/week for 14 weeks

 

[randall82]

How long before you see results with test?

 

[randall82]

I wanted to stay away from the needles......I got a lot of **** on another board about not wanting to use needles...would I set up my pct the same way for an injectable as I would for an oral?

 

[glenihan]

to be honest you're gonna get sh*t from any good board for doing an oral only cycle ... there's a good reason for that as well

 

[randall82]

I agree I just wanted to keep it from my girlfriend who dated a total ******* before me who was a steroid junkie with the worst case of gyno I had ever seen. If she saw me injecting myself she would freak.

 

[meowmeow]

I agree I just wanted to keep it from my girlfriend who dated a total ******* before me who was a steroid junkie with the worst case of gyno I had ever seen. If she saw me injecting myself she would freak.

Then you should stay away from D-Bol or seriously manage the water retention...because that quick blow up (and blow down when you stop if that is all you use) will have even people unfamiliar with steroids noticing you and labeling you as a roid head. I am sure your girlfriend would notice and freak.

 

[randall82]

I dont care about that I am already the biggest meat head I know and my weight has gone up and down depending on what sport I am in at the time. I just want to gain muscle with this cycle not weight(fat)

 

[randall82]

how similar are dbol and superdrol? as far as weight gain.

 

[Stupes]

Some people gain good weight with Superdrol - but I suspect that has to do mostly with it being used by inexperienced users. Because it's often used as first or second cycles, there are alot of nice gains with it. But D-Bol, in almost all people, is going to give you more size and strength. Granted, alot of it is due to water retention because it amoratizes. But estrogen also supports HGH production and water in the muscles adds to strength. Superdrol is non-amortizing - so estrogen is kept low. Thus, water weight and some strength is not present with Superdrol. So D-Bol for straight weight gain - but it's lost Post Cycle when run solo.

If you must run only orals - you have to have some primo and/or anavar in the mix to make it at least 8 weeks long, IMO. Something like this:

Weeks 1-4 D-Bol - 30mg
Weeks 1-4 Anavar - 20 or 40mg
Weeks 5-8 Anavar - 60mg

I've never done this and don't take this as gospel truth. I'm sure I'll get flamed for even suggesting an 8 week oral on this board. Big Cat has a sample oral stack - I forget what it is - but check that out.

 

[Force of Green]

Women stay away from the juice-heads for a reason; They're mostly weird, obsessive, stubborn numb-skulls who will snap when they are running a few minutes over a timed meal or they drag her down into their post-cycle depression when they don't use proper PCT or pin a little too much sauce.

If you look up and read the logs on superdrol and do the same for dbol, you will notice that they are not the same at all. You will not keep gains on dbol during PCT and you will definitely get some fat. Dbol is good for explosive gains to frontload a longer lasting esterfied injectible. Your girl would most likely notice you popping pill after pill than sticking your ass with one shot of test e or cypionate every week.

You could also lay off the juice and try some good NHA stack?

 

[glenihan]

If you look up and read the logs on superdrol and do the same for dbol, you will notice that they are not the same at all. You will not keep gains on dbol during PCT and you will definitely get some fat.

where are you getting this from? ... why will you get fat from dbol? that doesn't make any sense at all .. no steriod will make you fat .. your diet will make you fat ... you'll likely bloat from estrogenic water retention with dbol .. but that's not fat .. its water and it goes away

 

[Ubiquitous]

Fatbol is the only one that makes you fat. pfffft.

 

[Force of Green]

Testosterone is a powerful hormone with notably prominent side effects. Much of which stem from the fact that testosterone exhibits a high tendency to convert into estrogen. Related side effects may therefore become a problem during a cycle. For starters, water retention can become quite noticeable. This can produce a clear loss of muscle definition, as subcutaneous fluids begin to build. The storage of excess body fat may further reduce the visibility of muscle features, another common problem with aromatizing steroids. The excess estrogen level during/after your cycle also has the potential to lead up to gynecomastia. Adding an ancillary drug like Nolvadex and/or Proviron is therefore advisable to those with a known sensitivity to this side effect. The anti-aromatase Arimidex, Femara, or Aromasin are a much better choices though. It is believed that the use of an anti-estrogen can slightly lower the anabolic effect of most androgen cycles (estrogen and water weight are often thought to facilitate strength and muscle gain), so one might want to see if such drugs are actually necessary before committing to use. A little puffiness under the nipple is a sign that gynecomastia is developing. If this is left to further develop into pronounced swelling, soreness and the growth of small lumps under the nipples, some form of action should be taken immediately to treat it (obviously quitting the drug or adding ancillaries like Nolvadex). -Big Cat

Athletes who have tendencies toward gynecomastia, strong water retention, and increased fat deposits with steroids such as Dianabol (D-bol), Testoviron Depot, Anadrol, and Deca Durabolin usually take 20-30 mg/day. The combined application of Nolvadex 20-30 mg/day and Proviron 25-50 mg/day in these cases leads to excellent results.

I'm not stupid, I know that diet determines most of the physique. There are steroids that have more of a tendency to store excess fat deposits than other steroids.

If person A were to have the same diet, training and sleep habits as person B, and person A injected primobolan and person B popped DBol, person A would be less likely to store excess calories as fat deposits than person B.

 

[glenihan]

i can tell you from a lot of real world experience (and many others will validate this) that the underlined portions are wrong ... in fact test has been proven to have a fat-burning effect

have you ever used test or dbol force of green?

 

[Ubiquitous]

true, estrogenic fat deposits in areas such as the lovehandles, hips, and thighs, as well as breast tissue come from aromatizing gear (aside from gyno)... but not really to the degree that it bloats you with water. It's negligible compared to the water.. It won't make you fat as you posted, but you could have fat in certain areas that you didn't before.

And like Glen stated, Test has been noted to increase lipolysis.

Regardless, i've ran the gear i comment on, and I don't get the fat deposits.

I'm curious if you've ran the gear you like to comment on, or you just repeat empirical evidence or Big Cat's profiles.

I don't think Glenihan was calling you stupid.

 

[ripped22]

t-bol 1-6
var 1-10
win 7-10

nice lean steady gains. who gives a **** what people say about a 10 week oral cycle. i have seen it done many times and everyone is still alive and healthy. don't drink, drink tons of water, and take liver and kidney support. trust me bro you will be just fine.

ps please learn to pin! you won't make it in the long if you don't.

 

[Ubiquitous]

t-bol 1-6
var 1-10
win 7-10

nice lean steady gains. who gives a **** what people say about a 10 week oral cycle. i have seen it done many times and everyone is still alive and healthy. don't drink, drink tons of water, and take liver and kidney support. trust me bro you will be just fine.

ps please learn to pin! you won't make it in the long if you don't.

......And your lipids were fine after that? Bullsh1t. Var and especially Winny can wreak havoc on your lipids... and stacking it is even more stupid. I've ran all of that before and everytime my lipids took a dump.

If you have no concern for your health, then by all means do that dumba$$ stack.

That is extremely bad advice.

Try to really think how responsible that is of you to offer that advice on such a large forum with people trying to learn.

Ignorance can fvck you up with these matters.

 

[glenihan]

t-bol 1-6
var 1-10
win 7-10

nice lean steady gains. who gives a **** what people say about a 10 week oral cycle. i have seen it done many times and everyone is still alive and healthy. don't drink, drink tons of water, and take liver and kidney support. trust me bro you will be just fine.

ps please learn to pin! you won't make it in the long if you don't.

wow if i was a mod i would give you a warning that if you ever give such utterly WRECKLESS and IRRESONSIBLE advice again i'd ban you

this is ridiculous ... can certain people run it and experience no detrimental sides? probably ... can some people play russian roulette and never die? probably ... are either ones good advice? nope

this is just ridiculous ... go ahead and screw yourself up .. but don't tell others its fine and "don't worry" ... go over to professionalmuscle and read baldnazi's account of what happens when you think things are "fine" ... you end up nearly dead in a hospital thanking god that you were saved by medicine even though you lost 40 pounds, nearly died, and can never use gear again

 

[ripped22]

bro i post on promuscle and read everthing on that board. Are you telling me that bald nazi messed himself up from a cycle like i mentioned above? hardly. People on this board recommend superdrol on a daily basis and that **** is pure rat poison. it put my friend in the hospital after a 5 week cycle.
T-bol and var and two of the safest orals avalible and the winny would be run the last 4 weeks with var only. Notice i never mentioned doses.

of course injects are better but how many times do you have to hear that the toxicicity of orals is overated? Its proven over and over.

You im sure run tren for weeks on end and that in itself is worse that what i mentioned above(kidneys). Sorry bro, ban me if you wish, but i feel you are wrong.

 

[Force of Green]

i can tell you from a lot of real world experience (and many others will validate this) that the underlined portions are wrong ... in fact test has been proven to have a fat-burning effect

have you ever used test or dbol force of green?

I've run an 8 weeker of test prop on a caloric deficit and lost considerable fat, however, I was running .5 mg/ED of Arimidex with the prop.

 

[glenihan]

i never recommend superdrol and i disagree with the people that do ... i agree tren is very harsh on one's kidneys that's why i don't run it for more than 6 weeks and i don't recommend it to others (i know what my bloodwork says so i'm not concerned FOR MYSELF ... but i don't want to encourage others to do the same)

i disagree with tren being worse than what you recommended ... while tbol and var are mild in terms of gains (var moreso than tbol) i've never seen any indication either is particularly mild on the liver ... nor do i have ANY reason to believe that combining 3 methylated compounds isn't a horribl idea for one's lipid profile

i still believe what you posted is a VERY irresponsible thing to recommend ESPECIALLY since you repeatedly say "don't worry it'll be fine" ... people uneducated in terms of steriods, their side effects, and liver values could be horribly misled by your post

 

[glenihan]

I've run an 8 weeker of test prop on a caloric deficit and lost considerable fat, however, I was running .5 mg/ED of Arimidex with the prop.

i never use AI's anymore as i like my lipids the way they are (i realize aromasin isn't harmful to the lipids but whatever)

my point is i never ever ever get fat on cycle ... because my diet is fairly decent ... those drugs aren't going to make you fat ... i know you acknowledged that diet is important .. but when a compound is shown to burn fat it isn't going to put fat on you unless you eat like crap ... in which case any fat you would otherwise put on will be stored in places where estrogenic fat deposits occur ... what i'm saying is it may change the fat distribution but it won't, in and of itself, add fat

 

[Force of Green]

true, estrogenic fat deposits in areas such as the lovehandles, hips, and thighs, as well as breast tissue come from aromatizing gear (aside from gyno)... but not really to the degree that it bloats you with water. It's negligible compared to the water.. It won't make you fat as you posted, but you could have fat in certain areas that you didn't before.

And like Glen stated, Test has been noted to increase lipolysis.

Regardless, i've ran the gear i comment on, and I don't get the fat deposits.

I'm curious if you've ran the gear you like to comment on, or you just repeat empirical evidence or Big Cat's profiles.

I don't think Glenihan was calling you stupid.

I think I spoke too quick when I was posting. I definitely see now that my error was in my wording and it does sound a kinda stupid when I look at it. I should've been more specific. I haven't been subject to every juice out there, but I know people who have trained hard and have taken about every roid and roid combo/stack and I could visibly see them gaining the fat in certain areas that they didn't have and they had diet and training in tune. It wasn't water weight because when they were off, the water weight drained and the fat remained. Although they did hold more water while 'on'.

 

[ripped22]

glen i never suggested stacking 3 orals look at the cycle. Var would be the only thing running for the whole 10 weeks. I'm sorry i still do not feel this is a bad or irresposible cycle. I guarentee that your liver values would look better than any 6 week SD/PP stack that has been praised and recomended on this site for a year or so.
but on another note i do feel you right in recomending a mild inject test cycle (500 test E). But this guy saidhe is not ready to inject. I was just giving him a alternative, yes a little extreme, but not irresposible.

And bald nazi had his incident for this reason QUOTE:

"as I stated in my original post 2 months ago,I started doing the whole take long breaks,rest,get bloodwork done from the start many years ago.But as with anything,you gain experience and you think you know it all,you get reckless.One cyle blends into another.You bridge with 500mg test a week,your never really off,although you say you are.So my answer is the past few years were probably one big cycle with very little "real" off time.No bloodwork,just completely going through the motions.As far as the distention,I noticed it throughout.Not just the upper right quadrant as they say.Not major,but it was there." BN

not a 10 week var cycle.

 

[glenihan]

regarding baldnazi i wasn't saying it was one cycle that did it to him .. my point was these drugs can be dangerous and no one should advocate irresponsible use

and i think all these pp/superdrol/insert other name of some dumb designer that will wreck your liver here are ridiculous but i've given up because it would literally require 800 posts a day

i reread your post .. i originally THOUGHT i saw 1-10 for winny as well

i STILL think its irresponsible to use 2 orals at a time for 10 weeks straight .. however i guess you are right its no worse than what people recommend every day

with that said it doesn't make it right and hopefully people will see this little exchange and think more about what they are doing

if he doesn't want to use needles, IMO he or anyone else should NOT use steriods ... orals are so much worse for you that injectibles (with the possible exception of tren)

 

[randall82]

You see what I am saying glenihan. That is why I asked that simple question to you yesterday. As you can see most threads have someone who seems as if they know a lot but other informed people disagree with them. In the future I will put more time into my questions, however for that situation I was just looking for a personal response.

 

[glenihan]

and that's why i said its recommend to research gear for around a year ... eventually you start to realize what's what and will have better cycles with less sides hopefully combined with a better diet and training protocol than 90% of people out there