thoughts on this cycle (first time with injectables)
- 12-03-2006, 09:33 PM
thoughts on this cycle (first time with injectables)
hey guys im going to start my first injectable cycle in january, i was thinking about going 36 weeks on every steroid ever. just kidding, here is my real stuff..
- age: 27
- 200lbs..currently cutting weight, should be around 190 when i start the cycle (we'll see what the holidays do to me)
- been lifiting several years. im in great shape
- diet: i have cutting diets down no problem, im still doing a little research on a bulking diet. i have a pretty good picutre of what i need to do, diet will be on point by the time the cycle starts.
-goals: i am not a bodybuilder, i train mma and submission grappling. so huge gains in size will not benefit me much. i am just looking for some respectable gains in lean mass, and i want to push through some strength plateaus. i would be happy with 15 pounds of keepable gains and noticeable stregnth increases.
-experience: some designer cycles, which sucked. that crap is definitely not worth the money. and igf, which was cool
here is the proposed cycle thus far, since its my first i want to keep it as simple as possible
12 weeks test e & eq (this seems to be the preferred stack for people who train mma, pumps are manageble and easy on the joints)
1-12 test e @ 500mg/week
1-2 eq @ 800mg/week (frontload)
3-11 eq @ 400mg/week
4-8 igf @ 40mcg ed
15 igf @ 40mcg ed for 4 weeks (should i start this @ week 13?)
15 clomid 150mg ed/nolva 40mg ed
16-19 clomid 100mg ed/nolva 20mg ed
15-19 ax retain
anabolic innovations cycle support will be run throughout + all my normal supps (multi-v, fish oil, coq10, etc..)
ai needed on cycle? hcg absolutely crucial?
any critiques are more than welcome. i appreciate your help.
- 12-03-2006, 09:53 PM
just go with test only .. you won't know what gains and sides to attribute to what if you use more than 1 steriod your first time plus its not necessary you'll make amazing gains with a good diet and proper training with just test
- 12-03-2006, 10:02 PM
12-03-2006, 10:14 PM
Concrete - Just out of curiosity, why do you want to gain 15 lbs? Trying to move up a weight class? I just figured MMA fighters would be interested solely in strength.
12-03-2006, 10:21 PM
yeah, trying to move up. most people walk around about 15-20 pounds above their fighting weight (in some cases, even more), and cut weight before fights.
the 185 guys are too quick for me, so i think 205 would suit me best. my logic was after a couple lean bulks i would go from 190 to 215-220. i am also toying with the idea of just hangin out as a heavyweight, we'll see though. im in no hurry. im going to do all this slow and steady.
12-03-2006, 10:35 PM
looks good to me except for the clomid. Not worth the sides and combining the two has not proved (some people swear by it though) to be any better at recovery. And clomid can bring a lot of side affects that the nolvadex doesn't.Originally Posted by concretetofists
12 weeks is the min time for eq even with a front load but you should be fine. just keep in mind that 400mg a week is actually a low dose of EQ, its only half as strong as test so that is like 200mg of testosterone. it will work but 600 would be better. (if that sounds like a lot remember that EQ is just a little over 60% hormone with the rest being ester wieght and that EQ is intrinsically weaker then test.)
Props on doing your research, that looks like you thought it out well. Also if your tight in the pocket book dropping the eq would be fine as well. Its nice to add but not worth going broke over.
12-03-2006, 10:53 PM
eq and test E take a month to kick in. the first 4 weeks would be a lot better with that 800mg EQ front load.
Glen is a fan of lower dosed cycles. it looks like youve run some designer orals in the past, you wont get as much out of 500mgs as you would have if 500mgs of testosterone alone was your first cycle.
i would include the EQ, its very mild and the gains come slowly and are very quality. 12 weeks is a little on the short side for EQ however.
12-03-2006, 11:05 PM
thanks man i have put some time into reading about all this stuff.Originally Posted by Skye
i think im going to take glenihan's advice and just run the test. the eq wont absolutely break my wallet, but i wanted to keep my first cycle as simple as possible. if i can simplify it even more and still get the results im seeking then i think i should do it. i can put that money towards food.
skye, im also considering your advice on the clomid. that would be some additonal money saved as well.
12-03-2006, 11:09 PM
ive done a halodrol/trenadrol cycle, i wasnt impressed at all (ive had better workouts off 3 scoops of no-xplode). should i maybe bump the test up to 650 or 700mg/week, especially since im considering running it solo?Originally Posted by jomi822
12-04-2006, 01:03 AM
If Halodrol and Trenadrol is your only experience with hormones. I would say keep it at 500mg. I haven't done Trenadrol - but unless you dosed it really high - I would expect you to get nothing off of it. And as for Halodrol - I was just saying in another thread how I did 50mg a day for 30 days and didn't get ANYTHING out of it. Like you said - I would have felt more doing NO explode. My recovery time didn't even change - it was like I was taking advil every day. Maybe it's just that some people don't repond to the stuff. So I would say that this is really your first cycle and 500 mg of Test should be fine. Maybe just add in a good oral the first 4 weeks to kick off the cycle. Even superdrol would do the trick for that - but if it's size you want - go for some Dbol or A-bombs. And even some winni for weeks 11-14 to solidify the gains. Leave the EQ out - the orals are easily manageable if you don't like the sides.Originally Posted by concretetofists
12-04-2006, 01:42 AM
i dont want to kickstart this cycle with an oral. i want to have a good sense of what its like when the test starts kicking in, future cycles i might consider them.Originally Posted by Stupes
as for the winny the last 4 weeks, ive heard that stuff is hard on the joints, which will definitely hinder my grappling training. any comments on that? and i have an unopened bottle of mega-zol (thats more or less the same as winny right?), but im kind of scared of the designer stuff since the halo/trenadrol cycle. muscles arent worth feeling like complete crap for 4 weeks.
12-04-2006, 02:29 AM
hm most people seem to like halodrol.Originally Posted by concretetofists
i would stick with you original plan. boldenone is very mild, like i said. its twice as anabolic as it is androgenic. it has more or less the anabolic properties of testosterone with half the androgenic properties. if you are looking for more gains with less side effects, EQ is your friend.
there shouldnt be any need for a kickstart if you keep the EQ in there. it will also boost your red blood cell count and give you more stamina.
testosterone decreases collagen synthesis (including connective tissue)...EQ promotes it. it should help even things out.
12-04-2006, 03:54 AM
I agree. If you dont want to spend the money then just try the test for 12 weeks @ 500mg a week and bump it up later if you feel the need, but only if you must.Originally Posted by jomi822
EQ has virtually no sides and the gains are so lean, like you want. It boosts endurance more than any other injectable so you will like that as it will help you train longer. I say add the EQ if you want to spend more but its not entirely neccessary at all.
Stay away from the zol too...
12-04-2006, 08:00 AM
Yeah - winny is hard on the joints for alot of people - and hard on the HDL/LDL. It's not hard on eveyone though - it's certainly been used by speed and strength athletes over the years because it makes you strong and fast without puting on extra weight. And it's an oral so it's fast acting and the sides can be stopped by lowering the dosage or ceasing it all together. And if you have EQ going then that will help the joints issue. Are you thinking about any estrogen control - I imagine you don't want much bloat? 500mg of Test with 400mg of EQ might give you some, not certainly but it might - I'd think about it at least. And if you go with EQ - you won't really know what the Test is doing exactly and what the EQ is doing. If one goal of this cycle is to see how you react to Test - an oral kickstart of Superdrol for 3 weeks would be the way to go over EQ. Or better yet - just do some Prop for the first 2-3 weeks while the Enanthate is getting up there. But EQ is a great choice if you want athletic performance over testing the Test.......Originally Posted by concretetofists
12-04-2006, 08:14 AM
12-04-2006, 01:08 PM
what would be a good dosing protocol for running prop while im waitng for the enan to get rolling?
250mg e once a week, 250mg prop spread out ed or eod, for 3 weeks?
maybe switch back over to prop for the last 2 weeks of the cycle so i can get pct started soon?
12-04-2006, 03:48 PM
not to beat a dead horse
but really for your first cycle KISS (keep it simple stupid)
1-14 test enan 500mg
pinning ed or eod relaly isn't a good idea your first time out .. i promise with a good diet and training protocol you will ABSOLUTELY gain on that .. hell i still barely use more than that and i'm hardly on a first cycle lol
12-04-2006, 06:33 PM
12-04-2006, 07:24 PM
sounds good to me.
it has been decided. my first cycle will be test e solo for 14weeks ( i am still planning on running 4 weeks of igf in the middle and during pct, that stuff is no sweat). im probably going to start the cycle the first week in january.
im sure i could handle the eq and possible additional sides, and im sure i could make myself get through the more frequent injections with prop. but all in all, there really isnt much point in doing so, not right now at least. maybe this summer i'll run something along side test and see how that works out.
glenihan, skye, jomi, stupes, and pistonpump...thank you very much for your various insights. you all gave me something to think about.
12-05-2006, 12:40 AM
for the record, you only have to wait 2 weeks for test e to clear.
and 4 weeks of 100mg clomid ED is alot - probably gonna give you sides. look into tapering that down to 50mg after week 2, then 25mg until you decide you're back. i like clomid, but you have to respect it.
HCG is a cheap and welcome addition to any multi-month cycle, IMHO. you'll thank me later.
12-05-2006, 09:39 AM
I agree. I use Nolva because it's stronger than Clomid, and I can't really speak of Clomids sides because I've never used it. But Nolva has always done the trick for me without any sides. I've read that Clomid stimulates LH release and helps get the balls back working better than Nolva - but I've also read that is an old wives tale. I'd like to see what these other guys have to say about that. As for HCG - I'd consider that a must on this cycle. Dosage schemes differ - but I like going with 10 weeks at 500IU a week - weeks 2,4,6,8,10, and then 12 through 16 - don't run it into PCT - run it right up to PCT. Theories on this differ - so it would be good to hear what some other guys think and definately do your research.Originally Posted by same_old
12-05-2006, 11:40 AM
personally i prefer HCG 250iu 2x a week from week 3 until 3 days before PCT .. has always worked very well for me and makes recovery a lot easier JMO
12-05-2006, 01:52 PM
i like HCG no more often than 1x/week, and i personally never use it before week 4 because i have never found a need to. for a 14-week cycle, i would *personally* run HCG @
weeks 4,5 and maybe 6: 500IU once a week, 7 days apart
weeks 15,16: same
and weeks 10 & 11 would be optional.
desensitization to HCG is very real. i experienced it the first 2 cycles where i used swale protocol. since then, with less frequency, i get the same effects every time i shoot. YMMV!!
12-05-2006, 07:00 PM
You experienced desensitization? How did you know? And how did it effect you? And with weeks 10 and 11 as optional - that could be ten weeks without a shot. That hasn't caused an issue? I'm just picking your brain here because this is a different protocol than usual.Originally Posted by same_old
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