What is this chemical exactly?

  1. What is this chemical exactly?


    2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

    It's from a new supplement coming out by RPN. it looks like sperdrol but modified... if it has anywhere near the toxicity of SD i am gonna count that out.


  2. Superdrol is only heavily toxic when run with poor cycle support ancillaries & in overly high doses.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Superdrol is only heavily toxic when run with poor cycle support ancillaries & in overly high doses.
    There are a lot of logs around where people's lipid profiles have been trashed when running superdrol at the manufacturer's recommended protocol even with a well thought out post cycle therapy plan. Not that the profile won't recover with a solid post cycle therapy, but if you already have a marginal profile to begin with I wouldn't categorically say "no worries" to the toxicity aspect of that supplement.
    •   
       


  4. Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2
    There are a lot of logs around where people's lipid profiles have been trashed when running superdrol at the manufacturer's recommended protocol even with a well thought out post cycle therapy plan. Not that the profile won't recover with a solid post cycle therapy, but if you already have a marginal profile to begin with I wouldn't categorically say "no worries" to the toxicity aspect of that supplement.
    Some also ran it with almost untouched values for both liver enzymes and lipids

  5. Quote Originally Posted by MGH1982
    2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

    It's from a new supplement coming out by RPN. it looks like sperdrol but modified... if it has anywhere near the toxicity of superdrol i am gonna count that out.
    My guess goes to..........

    Epitiostanol
    (2á, 3á-epithio-5á-androstan-17 â -ol)
    * AS LISTED above, it is on the ban list.
    Syntrax

    *** CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION ***

    RTECS NUMBER : KC1035000
    CHEMICAL NAME : 2-alpha,3-alpha-Epithio-5-alpha-androstan-17-beta-olCAS REGISTRY NUMBER : 2363-58-8
    LAST UPDATED : 199706
    DATA ITEMS CITED : 18
    MOLECULAR FORMULA : C19-H30-O-S
    MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 306.55
    COMPOUND DESCRIPTOR : Reproductive Effector
    SYNONYMS/TRADE NAMES :
    * 2,3-Epithioandrostan-17-ol
    * Epitiostanol
    * 10275-S
    * Thiodrol

    *** HEALTH HAZARD DATA ***

    ** ACUTE TOXICITY DATA **

    TYPE OF TEST : LD - Lethal dose
    ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Oral
    SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent - rat
    DOSE/DURATION : >6 gm/kg
    TOXIC EFFECTS :
    Behavioral - somnolence (general depressed activity)
    Liver - other changes
    REFERENCE :
    OYYAA2 Oyo Yakuri. Pharmacometrics. (Oyo Yakuri Kenkyukai, CPO Box 180,
    Sendai 980-91, Japan) V.1- 1967- Volume(issue)/page/year: 7,805,1973

    TYPE OF TEST : LDLo - Lowest published lethal dose
    ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Intraperitoneal
    SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent - rat
    DOSE/DURATION : 5 gm/kg
    TOXIC EFFECTS :
    Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value
    REFERENCE :
    OYYAA2 Oyo Yakuri. Pharmacometrics. (Oyo Yakuri Kenkyukai, CPO Box 180,
    Sendai 980-91, Japan) V.1- 1967- Volume(issue)/page/year: 7,805,1973




    .................
    http://hazard.com/msds/tox/f/q51/q879.html
    Last edited by xtraflossy; 11-20-2006 at 11:22 AM.

  6. It is a structure similar to methyl DHT, the toxicity is MUCH MUCH lower than Superdrol however. In fact cholesterol only jumped 9 points and HDL only dropped 6, which is huge for a high dosage 4 week cycle. It is actually the methylated version of epitiostanol
    PharmD

  7. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    It is a structure similar to methyl DHT, the toxicity is MUCH MUCH lower than Superdrol however. In fact cholesterol only jumped 9 points and HDL only dropped 6, which is huge for a high dosage 4 week cycle. It is actually the methylated version of epitiostanol
    indeed - add a methyl group at 17a and suddenly it's legal

    EDIT: Saying who sells it is the same as source posting.

  8. So would this be more for strength, size, or cutting? I know that methylization changes the actual hormone, but is there any info on the appropriate usage for this?

  9. [QUOTE=same_old]
    ....[QUOTE]

    And that is supposed to mean?
    PharmD

  10. Can you guys provide us with a single study or a reference regarding the anabolic activity of the methylated form of Epitiostanol?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rx Lift
    Can you guys provide us with a single study or a reference regarding the anabolic activity of the methylated form of Epitiostanol?
    Can't provide a study directly (although I have some coming, since some were in Japanese).

    Anabolic Profile compared to methyl test: 1100% more anabolic
    Androgenicity: 90% as androgenic

    In rats of course.
    PharmD

  12. Here's a little morte information I have. I posted some in another thread also, I will try and move it here:
    2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

    Methyl Version of
    Epitiostanol
    (2á, 3á-epithio-5á-androstan-17 â -ol)
    * AS LISTED above, it is on the ban list.

    -Excert:BK-
    *It is a sulfur containing steroidal androgen.
    *It is a 3b-2b thio derivative of methyl DHT. T
    he numbers look really good on paper and in rats (about 1100% as anabolic as test and 70% as androgenic).
    *It is probably very good for dry, hard, stength gains and not for "wet" gains.
    *It also seems to work as a steroidal AI.

    This product I believe was commerically made in Japan under the names Protabol and Hemoguno -

    LMD (I don't know if he cycled it personally, or the company he works for) posted some bloodwork after a 4 week run.
    havoc
    (Borrowed from YeahRight)
    From what I can tell, you won't be able to get your hands on it for a little bitt. I DO know that is goes pre-sale tonight, in case you like to be on the cutting edge

    Link to a current log (now about 5 days in)
    Testing Havoc Out! - Mind and Muscle Forums
    Last edited by xtraflossy; 11-20-2006 at 03:46 PM.

  13. It'll be interesting when the logs start showing up here.

  14. For those that don't know - Floss just posted stuff from Kellner (Mr. Halodrol).

  15. edited by same_old:

    LMD - if you would just include SOME degree of scope in your conclusions - ie. "for the one sponsored person that has used it and had bloodwork, cholesterol was not severely impacted. this person was using XXX and YYY as well to mitigate these risks, and bloodwork was taken ZZ days after cycle completion, etc etc..." this accomplishes the desired effect but doesnt piss off objectivist people like me also include any other trials, good or bad, if there are any.

  16. Same,
    Come on man. Give us some credit. Ain't no need for attacks.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    Same,
    Come on man. Give us some credit. Ain't no need for attacks.
    ok fine. i edited my post. i'll kill 'em with consideration instead

  18. Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    edited by same_old:

    LMD - if you would just include SOME degree of scope in your conclusions - ie. "for the one sponsored person that has used it and had bloodwork, cholesterol was not severely impacted. this person was using XXX and YYY as well to mitigate these risks, and bloodwork was taken ZZ days after cycle completion, etc etc..." this accomplishes the desired effect but doesnt piss off objectivist people like me also include any other trials, good or bad, if there are any.
    What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.

    As for you saying you respected my knowledge before, it hasn't changed. I was pimping LR3 IGF-1 long before ever started working for IBE.
    PharmD

  19. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.

    As for you saying you respected my knowledge before, it hasn't changed. I was pimping LR3 IGF-1 long before ever started working for IBE.
    This is True!! - I remember many conversations fueled simply by the interest

    - Lake, .. This is supposed to activate the ER, what are the effects of this as far as GH, IGF levels??
    I'm not sure wether GH/IGF would decline due to the lack of estrogen, or increase.
    In either case, would running some Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione along with this make up for any decline in these levels, or, if the methyl Epitiostanol increased these levels, do you think it would just be overkill?....

  20. Gentlemen,

    I am going to state this once again so that people will understand and hopefully people will remember this because its inevitable that people won't.

    Please keep the discussion to the compound ONLY. Do not bring into the equation of who sells it, where to get it, etc....

    There is not a sponsor on AM that does sell this and we are no way affiliated with those entities, no matter how creative they are, that sell this material.

    Remember, keep it to the COMPOUND ONLY.

    Thank you.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.
    i just want some more details on the trial is all! please let us determine for ourselves the usefulness of the tester data by listing the pertinent parameters.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    i just want some more details on the trial is all! please let us determine for ourselves the usefulness of the tester data by listing the pertinent parameters.
    Well they were Dr.D's parameters so ask him. Although I can tell you he was 220 and about 7% b/f last I saw him at Olympia. I believe he told me that he wasn't taking A LOT of supps to help with the chol. levels and stuff but was taking the basics like milk thistle, NAC, etc. I gave you the information he gave me, so no need for the smart A$$ comments when I am trying to help all parties involved by posting information that I was given.

    I told you why I didn't get my blood work done. He loved it, said strength was WAY up at higher dosages, libido was awesome, sense of well being was there (similar to DBOL), and he wasn't as shutdown as he normally was on other oral compounds. He did 40mg/day for 4 weeks.
    PharmD

  23. The dude with the havoc log is 156 lbs starting weight. Um, would this be a good time to start doing this given his weight? Yea, I said it. That is what Lance Armstrong weighed when he was climbing the alps a couple years ago. Why is everyone so quick to jump on something when...nevermind, I know it's instant gratification. Try eating and going big in the gym, sweating your ass off. Train like a freak and stop relying on all of this crap. My rant is now over. Thank you

    Edit: Rant is not over yet. He not only has started Havoc but has also done SD, and PP in the past. To top everything off, he starts drinking Martinis at his Christmas Party on a Methyl. Cue David Bowie: Ground Control to Major Tom...... or Pink Floyd "Is there any body in there"? Fini.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Mach .78
    The dude with the havoc log is 156 lbs starting weight. Um, would this be a good time to start doing this given his weight? Yea, I said it. That is what Lance Armstrong weighed when he was climbing the alps a couple years ago. Why is everyone so quick to jump on something when...nevermind, I know it's instant gratification. Try eating and going big in the gym, sweating your ass off. Train like a freak and stop relying on all of this crap. My rant is now over. Thank you

    Edit: Rant is not over yet. He not only has started Havoc but has also done superdrol, and PP in the past. To top everything off, he starts drinking Martinis at his Christmas Party on a Methyl. Cue David Bowie: Ground Control to Major Tom...... or Pink Floyd "Is there any body in there"? Fini.
    He might be 5 foot tall.

  25. I'll let you know soon or someone else here will.

  26. Here's a study I thouhgt I'd place in here...
    A steroidal antiestrogen (epitiostanol) was then administered with satisfactory results. When a breast cancer relapse occurs in patients once treated successfully with endocrinotherapy, a different form of endocrinotherapy should be tried. There is a possibility that the mechanism of action of Epitiostanol, which is regarded as a steroidal antiestrogen, is different from that of tamoxifen in which an estrogen receptor (ER) system is included.

    Entrez PubMed

    Here's blooswork from 6 days into cycle... (maybe we can see a progresive log as to how fast things may go downhill. -this was taken from the log I posted)

    Ok I think i have it worked out....

    Liver
    Bilirubin 14 (0-20)
    CGT 16 (0-45)
    AST 24 (0-40)
    ALT 19 (0-40)

    Everythings good. Values for AST and ALT have actually come down significantly since October last year.

    Lipids
    Total cholesterol 4.1 (3.9-5.5)
    HDL 1.1 (0.5-2.7)
    LDL 2.8 (1.7-3.5)

    Some comments. Cholesterol runs through my family, and Total was up to 5.7 in late 2003. This latest is my best result ever. Similar for HDL and LDL. So I am stoked. And given Im already 6 days into the cycle

  27. Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
    Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
    Anyways...

    End of 4th Week and end of cycle
    In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

    BW, up 12lbs
    Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
    Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
    Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
    Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

    Strength: The real test will come during pct and when I approach previous PBs, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As Ive said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or SD. I will update my strength gains during pct.

    What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PBs from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

    Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
    Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
    Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

    If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

    Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

    On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with pants and singlet, it doesnt look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

    In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

    Sides

    Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
    Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
    Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldnt even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

    Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So Id like to see the results of such a cycle.

    So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

    Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout pct and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.

  28. Very nice, glad to hear it .

    Also to the person who was commenting about the other guy being 156lbs. There is a log here with someone (forgot his name) who is 360 and went to 366 after two weeks .

    LMD

    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
    Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
    Anyways...

    End of 4th Week and end of cycle
    In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

    BW, up 12lbs
    Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
    Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
    Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
    Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

    Strength: The real test will come during post cycle therapy and when I approach previous PBs, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As Ive said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or superdrol. I will update my strength gains during post cycle therapy.

    What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PBs from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

    Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
    Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
    Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

    If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

    Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

    On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with pants and singlet, it doesnt look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

    In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

    Sides

    Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
    Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
    Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldnt even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

    Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So Id like to see the results of such a cycle.

    So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

    Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout post cycle therapy and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.
    PharmD

  29. Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy
    Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
    Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
    Anyways...

    End of 4th Week and end of cycle
    In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

    BW, up 12lbs
    Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
    Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
    Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
    Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

    Strength: The real test will come during post cycle therapy and when I approach previous PBs, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As Ive said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or superdrol. I will update my strength gains during post cycle therapy.

    What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PBs from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

    Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
    Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
    Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

    If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

    Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

    On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with pants and singlet, it doesnt look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

    In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

    Sides

    Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
    Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
    Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldnt even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

    Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So Id like to see the results of such a cycle.

    So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

    Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout post cycle therapy and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.
    this looks familiar? is this from sputs log at M&M

  30. yes.
    I mentioned I had posted a link to this log in this thread.

    Hey LAke,.. what happened? Sent you a PM. Can't write back?

  31. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD
    Very nice, glad to hear it .

    Also to the person who was commenting about the other guy being 156lbs. There is a log here with someone (forgot his name) who is 360 and went to 366 after two weeks .

    LMD
    Yea, That would be me. And the gentleman you are referring to is NickW. He is a benching monster and a nice dude as well.

    Don't get me started on that other guy. 156 lbs. Trying eating ALOT for a month and see where you are, yea bigger.
  32. Hey, xxtruxx1


    Quote Originally Posted by xxtruxx1
    Superdrol is only heavily toxic when run with poor cycle support ancillaries & in overly high doses.
    Hey, it's been sometime since I've chat'd with you.. what products are you using over the winter?

  33. Quote Originally Posted by BigBoy12
    Hey, it's been sometime since I've chat'd with you.. what products are you using over the winter?
    Ive been wondering about xxtruxx....where has he been? yoouuuuuu whoooooooooo.....
  34. xxtruxx


    xxtruxx was the inspiration behind me giving Superdrol a try... If your out there....HHHEEEELLLOOOOO!
  

  
 

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