[MGH1982]

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

It's from a new supplement coming out by RPN. it looks like sperdrol but modified... if it has anywhere near the toxicity of SD i am gonna count that out.

[xxtruxx1]

Superdrol is only heavily toxic when run with poor cycle support ancillaries & in overly high doses.

[t-bone2]

Originally Posted by xxtruxx1

Superdrol is only heavily toxic when run with poor cycle support ancillaries & in overly high doses.

There are a lot of logs around where people's lipid profiles have been trashed when running superdrol at the manufacturer's recommended protocol even with a well thought out post cycle therapy plan. Not that the profile won't recover with a solid post cycle therapy, but if you already have a marginal profile to begin with I wouldn't categorically say "no worries" to the toxicity aspect of that supplement.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by t-bone2

There are a lot of logs around where people's lipid profiles have been trashed when running superdrol at the manufacturer's recommended protocol even with a well thought out post cycle therapy plan. Not that the profile won't recover with a solid post cycle therapy, but if you already have a marginal profile to begin with I wouldn't categorically say "no worries" to the toxicity aspect of that supplement.

Some also ran it with almost untouched values for both liver enzymes and lipids

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by MGH1982

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

It's from a new supplement coming out by RPN. it looks like sperdrol but modified... if it has anywhere near the toxicity of superdrol i am gonna count that out.

My guess goes to..........

Epitiostanol
(2á, 3á-epithio-5á-androstan-17 â -ol)
* AS LISTED above, it is on the ban list.
Syntrax

*** CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION ***

RTECS NUMBER : KC1035000
CHEMICAL NAME : 2-alpha,3-alpha-Epithio-5-alpha-androstan-17-beta-olCAS REGISTRY NUMBER : 2363-58-8
LAST UPDATED : 199706
DATA ITEMS CITED : 18
MOLECULAR FORMULA : C19-H30-O-S
MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 306.55
COMPOUND DESCRIPTOR : Reproductive Effector
SYNONYMS/TRADE NAMES :
* 2,3-Epithioandrostan-17-ol
* Epitiostanol
* 10275-S
* Thiodrol

*** HEALTH HAZARD DATA ***

** ACUTE TOXICITY DATA **

TYPE OF TEST : LD - Lethal dose
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Oral
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent - rat
DOSE/DURATION : >6 gm/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Behavioral - somnolence (general depressed activity)
Liver - other changes
REFERENCE :
OYYAA2 Oyo Yakuri. Pharmacometrics. (Oyo Yakuri Kenkyukai, CPO Box 180,
Sendai 980-91, Japan) V.1- 1967- Volume(issue)/page/year: 7,805,1973

TYPE OF TEST : LDLo - Lowest published lethal dose
ROUTE OF EXPOSURE : Intraperitoneal
SPECIES OBSERVED : Rodent - rat
DOSE/DURATION : 5 gm/kg
TOXIC EFFECTS :
Details of toxic effects not reported other than lethal dose value
REFERENCE :
OYYAA2 Oyo Yakuri. Pharmacometrics. (Oyo Yakuri Kenkyukai, CPO Box 180,
Sendai 980-91, Japan) V.1- 1967- Volume(issue)/page/year: 7,805,1973




.................
http://hazard.com/msds/tox/f/q51/q879.html

[LakeMountD]

It is a structure similar to methyl DHT, the toxicity is MUCH MUCH lower than Superdrol however. In fact cholesterol only jumped 9 points and HDL only dropped 6, which is huge for a high dosage 4 week cycle. It is actually the methylated version of epitiostanol

[same_old]

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

It is a structure similar to methyl DHT, the toxicity is MUCH MUCH lower than Superdrol however. In fact cholesterol only jumped 9 points and HDL only dropped 6, which is huge for a high dosage 4 week cycle. It is actually the methylated version of epitiostanol

indeed - add a methyl group at 17a and suddenly it's legal

EDIT: Saying who sells it is the same as source posting.

[Rodja]

So would this be more for strength, size, or cutting? I know that methylization changes the actual hormone, but is there any info on the appropriate usage for this?

[LakeMountD]

[QUOTE=same_old]
....[QUOTE]

And that is supposed to mean?

[Rx Lift]

Can you guys provide us with a single study or a reference regarding the anabolic activity of the methylated form of Epitiostanol?

[LakeMountD]

Originally Posted by Rx Lift

Can you guys provide us with a single study or a reference regarding the anabolic activity of the methylated form of Epitiostanol?

Can't provide a study directly (although I have some coming, since some were in Japanese).

Anabolic Profile compared to methyl test: 1100% more anabolic
Androgenicity: 90% as androgenic

In rats of course.

[xtraflossy]

Here's a little morte information I have. I posted some in another thread also, I will try and move it here:
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

Methyl Version of
Epitiostanol
(2á, 3á-epithio-5á-androstan-17 â -ol)
* AS LISTED above, it is on the ban list.

-Excert:BK-
*It is a sulfur containing steroidal androgen.
*It is a 3b-2b thio derivative of methyl DHT. T
he numbers look really good on paper and in rats (about 1100% as anabolic as test and 70% as androgenic).
*It is probably very good for dry, hard, stength gains and not for "wet" gains.
*It also seems to work as a steroidal AI.

This product I believe was commerically made in Japan under the names Protabol and Hemoguno -

LMD (I don't know if he cycled it personally, or the company he works for) posted some bloodwork after a 4 week run.
havoc
(Borrowed from YeahRight)
From what I can tell, you won't be able to get your hands on it for a little bitt. I DO know that is goes pre-sale tonight, in case you like to be on the cutting edge

Link to a current log (now about 5 days in)
Testing Havoc Out! - Mind and Muscle Forums

[RedwolfWV]

It'll be interesting when the logs start showing up here.

[jmh80]

For those that don't know - Floss just posted stuff from Kellner (Mr. Halodrol).

[same_old]

edited by same_old:

LMD - if you would just include SOME degree of scope in your conclusions - ie. "for the one sponsored person that has used it and had bloodwork, cholesterol was not severely impacted. this person was using XXX and YYY as well to mitigate these risks, and bloodwork was taken ZZ days after cycle completion, etc etc..." this accomplishes the desired effect but doesnt piss off objectivist people like me also include any other trials, good or bad, if there are any.

[jmh80]

Same,
Come on man. Give us some credit. Ain't no need for attacks.

[same_old]

Originally Posted by jmh80

Same,
Come on man. Give us some credit. Ain't no need for attacks.

ok fine. i edited my post. i'll kill 'em with consideration instead

[LakeMountD]

Originally Posted by same_old

edited by same_old:

LMD - if you would just include SOME degree of scope in your conclusions - ie. "for the one sponsored person that has used it and had bloodwork, cholesterol was not severely impacted. this person was using XXX and YYY as well to mitigate these risks, and bloodwork was taken ZZ days after cycle completion, etc etc..." this accomplishes the desired effect but doesnt piss off objectivist people like me also include any other trials, good or bad, if there are any.

What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.

As for you saying you respected my knowledge before, it hasn't changed. I was pimping LR3 IGF-1 long before ever started working for IBE.

[xtraflossy]

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.

As for you saying you respected my knowledge before, it hasn't changed. I was pimping LR3 IGF-1 long before ever started working for IBE.

This is True!! - I remember many conversations fueled simply by the interest

- Lake, .. This is supposed to activate the ER, what are the effects of this as far as GH, IGF levels??
I'm not sure wether GH/IGF would decline due to the lack of estrogen, or increase.
In either case, would running some Estra-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione along with this make up for any decline in these levels, or, if the methyl Epitiostanol increased these levels, do you think it would just be overkill?....

[Cosmo Kramer]

Gentlemen,

I am going to state this once again so that people will understand and hopefully people will remember this because its inevitable that people won't.

Please keep the discussion to the compound ONLY. Do not bring into the equation of who sells it, where to get it, etc....

There is not a sponsor on AM that does sell this and we are no way affiliated with those entities, no matter how creative they are, that sell this material.

Remember, keep it to the COMPOUND ONLY.

Thank you.

[same_old]

Originally Posted by LakeMountD

What in God's name are you talking about bro? I am so confused? There are only so many people who have taken it considering not ONE company has actually shipped a bottle yet. I gave you blood work from someone who ran it next to me. I didn't get blood work because I used mine after a cycle of something else and didn't want that to interfere with the blood work results. I could have gotten the blood work and made it show up as amazing and lied but I am not like that.

i just want some more details on the trial is all! please let us determine for ourselves the usefulness of the tester data by listing the pertinent parameters.

[LakeMountD]

Originally Posted by same_old

i just want some more details on the trial is all! please let us determine for ourselves the usefulness of the tester data by listing the pertinent parameters.

Well they were Dr.D's parameters so ask him. Although I can tell you he was 220 and about 7% b/f last I saw him at Olympia. I believe he told me that he wasn't taking A LOT of supps to help with the chol. levels and stuff but was taking the basics like milk thistle, NAC, etc. I gave you the information he gave me, so no need for the smart A$$ comments when I am trying to help all parties involved by posting information that I was given.

I told you why I didn't get my blood work done. He loved it, said strength was WAY up at higher dosages, libido was awesome, sense of well being was there (similar to DBOL), and he wasn't as shutdown as he normally was on other oral compounds. He did 40mg/day for 4 weeks.

[Mach .78]

The dude with the havoc log is 156 lbs starting weight. Um, would this be a good time to start doing this given his weight? Yea, I said it. That is what Lance Armstrong weighed when he was climbing the alps a couple years ago. Why is everyone so quick to jump on something when...nevermind, I know it's instant gratification. Try eating and going big in the gym, sweating your ass off. Train like a freak and stop relying on all of this crap. My rant is now over. Thank you

Edit: Rant is not over yet. He not only has started Havoc but has also done SD, and PP in the past. To top everything off, he starts drinking Martinis at his Christmas Party on a Methyl. Cue David Bowie: Ground Control to Major Tom...... or Pink Floyd "Is there any body in there"? Fini.

[yeahright]

Originally Posted by Mach .78

The dude with the havoc log is 156 lbs starting weight. Um, would this be a good time to start doing this given his weight? Yea, I said it. That is what Lance Armstrong weighed when he was climbing the alps a couple years ago. Why is everyone so quick to jump on something when...nevermind, I know it's instant gratification. Try eating and going big in the gym, sweating your ass off. Train like a freak and stop relying on all of this crap. My rant is now over. Thank you

Edit: Rant is not over yet. He not only has started Havoc but has also done superdrol, and PP in the past. To top everything off, he starts drinking Martinis at his Christmas Party on a Methyl. Cue David Bowie: Ground Control to Major Tom...... or Pink Floyd "Is there any body in there"? Fini.

He might be 5 foot tall.

[Mach .78]

I'll let you know soon or someone else here will.

[xtraflossy]

Here's a study I thouhgt I'd place in here...
A steroidal antiestrogen (epitiostanol) was then administered with satisfactory results. When a breast cancer relapse occurs in patients once treated successfully with endocrinotherapy, a different form of endocrinotherapy should be tried. There is a possibility that the mechanism of action of Epitiostanol, which is regarded as a steroidal antiestrogen, is different from that of tamoxifen in which an estrogen receptor (ER) system is included.

Entrez PubMed

Here's blooswork from 6 days into cycle... (maybe we can see a progresive log as to how fast things may go downhill. -this was taken from the log I posted)

Ok I think i have it worked out....

Liver
Bilirubin 14 (0-20)
CGT 16 (0-45)
AST 24 (0-40)
ALT 19 (0-40)

Everything’s good. Values for AST and ALT have actually come down significantly since October last year.

Lipids
Total cholesterol 4.1 (3.9-5.5)
HDL 1.1 (0.5-2.7)
LDL 2.8 (1.7-3.5)

Some comments. Cholesterol runs through my family, and Total was up to 5.7 in late 2003. This latest is my best result ever. Similar for HDL and LDL. So I am stoked. And given I’m already 6 days into the cycle…

[xtraflossy]

Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
Anyways...

End of 4th Week and end of cycle
In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

BW, up 12lbs
Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

Strength: The real test will come during pct and when I approach previous PB’s, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As I’ve said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or SD. I will update my strength gains during pct.

What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PB’s from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with ¾ pants and singlet, it doesn’t look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

Sides

Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldn’t even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So I’d like to see the results of such a cycle.

So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout pct and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.

[LakeMountD]

Very nice, glad to hear it .

Also to the person who was commenting about the other guy being 156lbs. There is a log here with someone (forgot his name) who is 360 and went to 366 after two weeks .

LMD

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
Anyways...

End of 4th Week and end of cycle
In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

BW, up 12lbs
Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

Strength: The real test will come during post cycle therapy and when I approach previous PB’s, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As I’ve said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or superdrol. I will update my strength gains during post cycle therapy.

What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PB’s from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with ¾ pants and singlet, it doesn’t look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

Sides

Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldn’t even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So I’d like to see the results of such a cycle.

So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout post cycle therapy and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.

[sweet-physique]

Originally Posted by xtraflossy

Here are the results from the Testing log I posted a link to earlier. Looks pretty nice, considering.
Honestly, I am being led to beleive these are some VERY keepable gains (I'll have to see a few more logs of course)
Anyways...

End of 4th Week and end of cycle
In summary, Havoc has been great, in terms of strength and size gains and little sides.

BW, up 12lbs
Arms, up 2cm (0.79 inches)
Legs, up 3cm (1.18 inches)
Chest, up 7cm (2.76 inches)
Waist, up 6cm (2.36 inches). This might seem a bit, and is measured at the height of the belly button. However, I still have no had to adjust my belt - I wear my pants below my belly button

Strength: The real test will come during post cycle therapy and when I approach previous PB’s, however, having taken a 2 months break before Havoc, my strength picked up faster than it ever has before. As I’ve said before, if I ever taken more than a 2 weeks break, I lose a bit of strength, even more so after 2 months. So in this regard Havoc was definitely better than PP or superdrol. I will update my strength gains during post cycle therapy.

What strength gains am I looking for? Well below are my previous PB’s from earlier in the year at BW 156lbs

Squat x1 = 407lbs, belt and knee wraps, WAY bellow parallel
Deadlift x1 = 451lbs, belt only
Overhead Press = 200lbs, belt only

If I get close to the above I would be stoked.

Size: I put on a bit more weight than I expected. So, I would say that Havoc can actually deliver better than moderate size gains.

On repartitioning I would say Havoc is better than SD and PP. With PP I ended up putting a good amount of fat towards the end. However with Havoc I have kept the V-shape. With clothes on, say with ¾ pants and singlet, it doesn’t look at all like I put anything around my waist, just that my traps, shoulders, arms, lats and legs have grown nicely.

In other words, Havoc seems to be very good for repartitioning, given the hardening/drying out of muscles, v-shape look etc.

Sides

Libido: I noticed no change with Havoc, whereas with SD and PP I did notice a pick up in libido.
Mood: Definitely grew impatient and a bit nasty at times. Probably a bit more so than with PP and SD.
Other: No headaches. No back pumps. I remember with SD and PP I couldn’t even go running cause my lower back would be killing me.

Conclusion: I highly recommend Havoc. In my mind, Havoc is good for a bulk, but I can imagine that for cutting, or even at maintenance calories, Havoc would seriously kick major ass. So I’d like to see the results of such a cycle.

So many thanks RPN and Matt for the opportunity, it was a pleasure. And as Matt can now see there is much better value in getting people from other galaxies such as Australia do run frequently updated and detailed logs.

Oh, it goes without saying that I will update throughiout post cycle therapy and psot bloodwork up when I get it done. But suffice to say that for someone liek myself with hereditary cholesterol, for me to have great lipids 1 week into Havoc, is pretty telling.

this looks familiar? is this from sputs log at M&M

[xtraflossy]

yes.
I mentioned I had posted a link to this log in this thread.

Hey LAke,.. what happened? Sent you a PM. Can't write back?