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daniel35

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Ok no fighting, lets just get some discussion going on this compound. I was wanting anyones opionion on how badly havoc is likely to shut natural testosterone down. I'm thinking with the high estrogen suppression that it might not be a complete killer of test.
 
yeahright

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Probably pure speculation at this point. I don't even think the alpha testers have gotten post-cycle bloodwork yet.
 
Alpine

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Probably pure speculation at this point. I don't even think the alpha testers have gotten post-cycle bloodwork yet.
I agree, its all speculation. I dont think it will "shut you down less" or require less of a post cycle therapy or anything like that. Compounds that dont even aromatize will still shut you down.

I think this will be a lot like superdrol except with less sides and maybe not as Explosive in terms of raw gains. I still think it will be one of the more effective PH"s we have seen in a while. I think there will be pronounced hardening and VERY dry gains due to the anti-E activity of the compound itself. Im curious about the lipid profiles though. Hopefully it will be better than superdrol (and I think it will). However, Anti-E's like arimidex alone can screw with your lipid profiles pretty bad. If you take .5-1mg of arimidex for 5-6 weeks you can see this. Lowering estrogen too much is also not a good thing.

Its very interesting to see how it turns out. Im excited to say the least. I think my GF is going to order me a bottle as part of my Xmas gift. :D

Make no mistake, we are all very obsessed and twisted. Willing guinea pigs....

There is a lot more info here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/55290-havoc.html

Havoc? - Bodybuilding.com Forums
 
jmh80

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I'm just wondering how long until the government bans it....
 
yeahright

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I'm just wondering how long until the government bans it....
Oh, pretty darn quick I suspect. There was some guy at BB.com who apparently works with/for the FDA who hinted that he'd dropped the dime to the agency about the product because someone working for one of the companies putting it out had pissed him off. :blink: Sigh.
 
Alpine

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I'm just wondering how long until the government bans it....
Not long. "They" didnt obfuscate the structure AT ALL. This is honest but it is also risky. A think less reputable people would have "hidden" it a bit more.

If you look at the photo of the basic chemical structure, which I posted :D, its a clear derivative of cholesterol (even for a layman such as myself). Major red flag...

Still, props to the first arriver for using the TRUE structure name. I like the people behind Havoc so I hope they at least get some profit out of it before the FDA sends them a letter.

Oh, pretty darn quick I suspect. There was some guy at BB.com who apparently works with/for the FDA who hinted that he'd dropped the dime to the agency about the product because someone working for one of the companies putting it out had pissed him off. :blink: Sigh.
Yes, the threads are very heated over there. Look's like Dr. D is in some hot water. Gotta love the drama between the companies. Some of that needs to remain in private phone calls not public boards. Its entertaining though! Oh when BK comes around to cut through some of the BS the reps and liars spew its a good time too.
 
B5150

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Discuss the properties of the compound and leave ALL the drama out or it gets closed.
 
Alpine

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Discuss the properties of the compound and leave ALL the drama out or it gets closed.
NO SOUP FOR YOU!

I'm tired of the Nazi-like moderation I have been seeing a lot of around here. What happened to the AM I used to love?

Dont link to PH's or retailers who sell PH"s - ok fine. We can deal with that. Otherwise, hands off our threads. Seriously, the atmosphere around here sucks. If you ban me for stating my opinion its even more of a sign that things could be getting out of hand. BB.com is a GIANT. They sell tons of everything and the volume of PH related posts is 5x what it is here. They dont moderate half as much and they seem to be operating fine. Their level of exposure and risk is also MUCH higher. I understand what you are aiming for in regard to links to illegal substances, and I agree. But you cant get out of hand with the moderation, content, and topic control.

EASE UP.

This is reminding me more of Elite every day and it makes me ****ing sick.
 
B5150

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No one asked you for your opinion. The owner of the board tolerates zero drama and would shut you and your threads down in a second. I have given you the consideration of asking you not to discontinue doing so. You and others continue to address, bring attention to, draw and carry-over bb.com drama to this place. Keep it and the likes of it over there. If you desire that atmosphere then stay there. Consider this your only warning. Understand it!

Discuss the compound and leave the rest out.
 
yeahright

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Ok no fighting, lets just get some discussion going on this compound. I was wanting anyones opionion on how badly havoc is likely to shut natural testosterone down. I'm thinking with the high estrogen suppression that it might not be a complete killer of test.
LMD posted these test results on another board from the version of this product his company is about to offer. Doesn't appear to hit the lipid profiles bad at all especially compared to superdrol which this product is frequently compared to.

Value: Before and After

40mg/day 4 weeks

AST: 24 52
ALT: 20 45
GGT: 15 21
ALB: 4.5 4.8
TBIL: 0.6 0.5
CHOL: 199 208
LDL: 129 147
HDL: 30 26
 
Alpine

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LMD posted these test results on another board from the version of this product his company is about to offer. Doesn't appear to hit the lipid profiles bad at all especially compared to superdrol which this product is frequently compared to.

Value: Before and After

40mg/day 4 weeks

AST: 24 52
ALT: 20 45
GGT: 15 21
ALB: 4.5 4.8
TBIL: 0.6 0.5
CHOL: 199 208
LDL: 129 147
HDL: 30 26
Ya looks ok. I would like to see some unrelated 3rd party results though too. I can only trust stuff like this from Reps/Companies so much, you know what I mean? If anyone associated got bad results it wouldnt see the light of day. :D Were they said to be LMD's (IBE Rep. and the "other" company selling it) or one of the "beta testers"? I would like to see someone unrelated give us some results.

I do think we are going to see less disruption than with superdrol on the lipids though. BK said it should be VERY clean and I respect his opinion a lot. Say what you want about him, but he knows his sh1t.
 
B5150

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It does seem to be more lipid friendly then liver. When I was a tester for superdrol my ast/alt/ggt were unchanged even at 50mg but my lipids were wacked. Those liver values are doubled and I believe right at the high, which for short durations is really not too bad and will bounce back once it is discontinued. Lipids tend to require a bit longer to recover.
 
Dwight Schrute

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NO SOUP FOR YOU!

I'm tired of the Nazi-like moderation I have been seeing a lot of around here. What happened to the AM I used to love?

Dont link to PH's or retailers who sell PH"s - ok fine. We can deal with that. Otherwise, hands off our threads. Seriously, the atmosphere around here sucks. If you ban me for stating my opinion its even more of a sign that things could be getting out of hand. BB.com is a GIANT. They sell tons of everything and the volume of PH related posts is 5x what it is here. They dont moderate half as much and they seem to be operating fine. Their level of exposure and risk is also MUCH higher. I understand what you are aiming for in regard to links to illegal substances, and I agree. But you cant get out of hand with the moderation, content, and topic control.

EASE UP.

This is reminding me more of Elite every day and it makes me ****ing sick.
Who prohibited you from talking about a subject here?

Fvck if I know. I've been away on business for a week.
 
Jayhawkk

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Your clothes are put away and folded as demanded, sir. Slippers and cigar are at your desk.
 
Dwight Schrute

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I really feel bad if airport security opened up my suitcase on the way back.
 
B5150

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My guess is that he cannot seem to recognize that discussing the topic and perpetuating the drama are two different things. As you can see, I have no problem with the topic. It is when we get an insert of cross board drama from other boards that I remind them to stay on topic.
 
Dwight Schrute

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What drama? I thought everyone believes it will be good.
 
Jayhawkk

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Unless you're Dane Cook cause he's ****in telling everybody!
 
dsade

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I really feel bad if airport security opened up my suitcase on the way back.
That'll teach you for trying to smuggle in a 6 year old boy from Thailand.

Next time ship him EMS in a drum.
 
dsade

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Lipids are being tested by Sputnik at M&M.

Other logs should be out this week.

BTW, this compound (much like the MDHT/M5aa) is quite neuroactive. I have never had such GREAT, AGGRO workouts.

No blood pressure issues, only one instance of androgen-related acne on my chin.
 
Alpine

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Who prohibited you from talking about a subject here?

Fvck if I know. I've been away on business for a week.
My guess is that he cannot seem to recognize that discussing the topic and perpetuating the drama are two different things. As you can see, I have no problem with the topic. It is when we get an insert of cross board drama from other boards that I remind them to stay on topic.
In my original Havoc post ( http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/55290-havoc.html ) I was told to edit my comments numerous times my members/mods cowering like whipped dogs. All I did was discuss M&M and the companies introducing the new compound. It was pretty mild and contained no 'source posts'. I didn't blatantly break any rules. Either way, the backlash from mods was suprising and lame - not a welcome addition to the open free flow of info that this board has always represented. When the Mods start posting more than the members and constantly regulating the direction of posts, you have a problem. i.e. Elite forums. :(

Your comments in this thread serve as further examples of the lameness. I wasnt bringing any drama over here. I was just talking about the circus act between companies over at BB.com and replying to yeahright's post. How many people are you guys going to run off?

Anyway, I need to go do something else. Im not in the mood for this tonight. I will just mouth off more. ;) Peace guys.
 
Jayhawkk

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Not too much more i'll guarentee. You've been given the rules since you have been gone for a bit and have been given several chances to understand them. If you can't understand them or keep the discussion within those guidelines then feel free to exit.
 
Alpine

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Lipids are being tested by Sputnik at M&M.

Other logs should be out this week.

BTW, this compound (much like the MDHT/M5aa) is quite neuroactive. I have never had such GREAT, AGGRO workouts.

No blood pressure issues, only one instance of androgen-related acne on my chin.
Awesome.
 
Dwight Schrute

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In my original Havoc post ( http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/55290-havoc.html ) I was told to edit my comments numerous times my members/mods cowering like whipped dogs. All I did was discuss M&M and the companies introducing the new compound. It was pretty mild and contained no 'source posts'. Either way, the backlash was suprising and lame - not a welcome addition to the open free flow of info that this board has always represented.

Your comments in this thread serve as further examples of the lameness. I wasnt bringing any drama over here. I was just talking about the circus act between companies over at BB.com and replying to yeahright's post. How many people are you guys going to run off?

Anyway, I need to go do something else. Im not in the mood for this tonight. I will just mouth off more. ;) Peace guys.
You seem unsettled :D
 
Jayhawkk

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Someone has spent a week testing new herbal remedies, I see..."business trip" riiiight.
 
Dwight Schrute

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Jayhawkk

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Who are you? Where do you come from? Are you listening to me?? What do you want to do with your life?















I WANNA ROCK!!!!!
 
jmh80

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I'm angling to get my hands on this to have lipids/liver/test done.

Not sure if I'm considered a good source of info or what...considering I'm the worst rep on the internet.
 
jmh80

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Just because it's made from DMT shouldn't have any connection to folks that respond poorly to PP Floss (I think...).
 
dsade

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Trust me you are. This coming from the worst Mod on the net.
Damn...I didn't know they already held the judging. Congrats!!!!
 
Jayhawkk

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I was a close runner up but my nude pics put me right below B. Which I thought was quite ironic.
 
dsade

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I was a close runner up but my nude pics put me right below B. Which I thought was quite ironic.
Considering the pose, QUITE ironic.

And , for worst mod...wouldn't second place be ABOVE? Wow, confusing.
 
CROWLER

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Hey JayHawk,

I voted for you buddy, actually voted for you twice ;)


CROWLER
 
Jayhawkk

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*slips Crowler a 5 spot*

Well done friend, well done!
 

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:frustrate
I just had a nice post written up and then deleted it by accident.

Anyway, if you want to know more about this compound just click on the long bb.com thread and pay attention to posts by Kohen_Gadol (BK), especially the early ones.

 

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Good luck with this stuff...it is absolutely the best available "thing" in its genre out there by a long shot now. It kills the SD and PP clones. It is clearly superior to the current crop of 4-halogens (surely better than the mono-enes, more potent mg-per-mg than the 1,4-diene too).
He also mentions it should be dry and "much cleaner" than the others.

Nobody will really know though until good logs start coming out.
 

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Not long. "They" didnt obfuscate the structure AT ALL. This is honest but it is also risky. A think less reputable people would have "hidden" it a bit more.

If you look at the photo of the basic chemical structure, which I posted :D, its a clear derivative of cholesterol (even for a layman such as myself). Major red flag...

Still, props to the first arriver for using the TRUE structure name. I like the people behind Havoc so I hope they at least get some profit out of it before the FDA sends them a letter.



Yes, the threads are very heated over there. Look's like Dr. D is in some hot water. Gotta love the drama between the companies. Some of that needs to remain in private phone calls not public boards. Its entertaining though! Oh when BK comes around to cut through some of the BS the reps and liars spew its a good time too.
It probably wont get banned, but they will probably will recieve a warning letter from the fda consdering that it doesn't even remotely fit into DSHEA as a dietary supplement (Where the hell do thiolated steroids occur in nature??).
 
jmh80

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B - I retract my statement as the worst rep. I just noticed the Scot (Ziricote) is now a USP rep.

Pretty sure he's the worst - because he's Scottish ("Get in muh belly"!).
 
B5150

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B - I retract my statement as the worst rep. I just noticed the Scot (Ziricote) is now a USP rep.

Pretty sure he's the worst - because he's Scottish ("Get in muh belly"!).
Yeah, well, maybe. But that doesn't let me off the hook though, does it? :)
 
bigpetefox

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This Havoc sounds like fun... :)
 
jmh80

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So - Pete - my question is, how many are you theoretically gonna buy in this role playing game???
 
bigpetefox

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So - Pete - my question is, how many are you theoretically gonna buy in this role playing game???
Theoretically, if the store near me decides to stockpile it like they did with other "discontinued" products (yes, I mean SD/PP/HD50/EM).. If they do this, theoretically, I can get a good $10 off each bottle, then another 10% off the total.. ;)

In theory, I got 10 boxes of HD50 for $35 each, retail at $64.99... :D
 
jmh80

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You piece of theoretical horse-sh*t!!!!!! :nutkick:
 
Jayhawkk

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You're not too far from me Pete. We need to theoretically meet up some time. Im due for a cycle ride out that way soon :)
 
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