Are research chemicals still legal?

[phastcel]

Ive searched the board now for a couple hours trying to find a definate answer to this question and have not been able to. Ive found posts sayin theyre on their way to being illegal, people who have had problems w/ international orders, and the mods changing the policies about posting about them. But I havent actually found it anywhere saying that they are or are not illegal now. Whats the story?

 

[xxtruxx1]

They were never illegal, for research purposes of course.

 

[800mrunner]

you wont find too much about that at this board. you'll need to look elsewhere.

 

[B5150]

Here is the boards stance on the matter:

Anabolicminds.com will no longer be affiliated with the selling of research products. If you need that information, I am sure you can find it elswhere. The sole reason for this move is to protect the ownership of this forum as it grows....

....Research items will be treated as other illegal substances from now on. Discussion is fine, source posting is not.

 

[TeamSavage]

The chemicals themselves are not controlled substances, and are therefore legal to possess and sell. But selling them explicitly for human consumption is illegal. Only approved pharmaceutical drugs can be marketed for human consumption, and in that case they must be distributed through the legally appropriate channels (i.e. prescribed by doctor, dispensed by pharmacy, etc).

I don't believe consuming research chemicals is actually illegal (or possessing for the purpose of personal consumption), but I'm not 100% sure on this.

 

[dsade]

Actually, it isn't legal to sell them.

 

[TeamSavage]

Actually, it isn't legal to sell them.

I guess it depends on the "research chemical" you're talking about, but I assumed he was referring to chems like Nolva citrate, Clom citrate, IGF-1, etc.

These are not controlled substances. They are not Scheduled, and I don't believe they're even "Listed" substances with restricted distribution. How is it illegal to sell them, provided that they are not sold for human consumption? What law applies to these materials?

 

[Ziricote]

Every research chem site I've come across has a disclaimer saying that if you enter and buy you are agreeing that you will only use for research purposes. Which I think would cover the companies back from a legal standpoint, wouldn't it? Not sure about the users legal postition though...

 

[dsade]

Many of these are prescription meds, and things like Clen are not legal at ALL.

They usually don't bother, since the penalties are minor...but they are not legal to sell, and the whole "research only" is meaningless if you are not a college, etc.

 

[TeamSavage]

Many of these are prescription meds, and things like Clen are not legal at ALL.

They usually don't bother, since the penalties are minor...but they are not legal to sell, and the whole "research only" is meaningless if you are not a college, etc.

Yes, Clen is a different story. But as for Nolva, Clom, etc., although they are prescription meds, it's my understanding that this does not generally make it illegal to sell the chemical itself, provided that (a) the chemical is not a Scheduled or Listed substance, and (b) the chemical is not being sold for human consumption.

I'm not an attorney, so perhaps I'm missing something. Could you elaborate on the statutes that prohibit one from selling the chemical found in a prescription med, provided that the transaction meets criteria A and B above?

 

[B4n3 0n3]

The way I see it is this. When LE has a warrant to search you house for steroids and they find nolva they will put 2 and 2 together.

 

[TeamSavage]

Steroids are Schedule III controlled substances. Nolva is not. Even if LE found Nolva in your home (without a prescription) and you admit that you intended to consume it, there's no prosecutable offense. Possession of nolva (or any other uncontrolled substance) is not against the law.

 

[hardestgainer]

Le?

 

[fatsuperman]

The legality of research chemicals is based off the fact that the feds haven't really tried to spend any resources in trying to take these guys to court.

When they do, you can bet these operations will sadly be shutdown.

Putting a label on your research chemicals stating that they are "not for human consumption" probably doesn't carry a lot of weight with a judge, when it is demonstrated that your company advertises them on body building sites, and your reps regularly inhabit boards recommending dosages, and specific chemicals.

Common sense dictates that these chemicals are being plainly marketed as drugs irregardless of what the labels and disclaimers say. I'm betting sooner or later that some judge will agree. Fortunately for us the authorities are preoccupied with actual scheduled substances and don't have the resources to take this issue on yet. Lets not also forget that the big pharmaceutical companies can possibly decide that these guys are selling unauthorized clones.

In the mean time stock up with a moderate quantity of your favorites, and rotate stock as you consume them. Remember how your cheap powder went away before you were able to make that last order.

BTW, in my state (indiana) these substances are illegal to posses under the legacy act. Of course it is only a low level misdemeanor. Many others states have similar regulations

 

[MuscleBound1337]

Law Enforcement

 

[DriverDan]

The legality of research chemicals is based off the fact that the feds haven't really tried to spend any resources in trying to take these guys to court.

When they do, you can bet these operations will sadly be shutdown.

Putting a label on your research chemicals stating that they are "not for human consumption" probably doesn't carry a lot of weight with a judge, when it is demonstrated that your company advertises them on body building sites, and your reps regularly inhabit boards recommending dosages, and specific chemicals.

Common sense dictates that these chemicals are being plainly marketed as drugs irregardless of what the labels and disclaimers say. I'm betting sooner or later that some judge will agree. Fortunately for us the authorities are preoccupied with actual scheduled substances and don't have the resources to take this issue on yet. Lets not also forget that the big pharmaceutical companies can possibly decide that these guys are selling unauthorized clones.

In the mean time stock up with a moderate quantity of your favorites, and rotate stock as you consume them. Remember how your cheap powder went away before you were able to make that last order.

BTW, in my state (indiana) these substances are illegal to posses under the legacy act. Of course it is only a low level misdemeanor. Many others states have similar regulations

Excellent point. The marketing used could very well turn a legal business into an illegal one.

 

[RoadBlocK]

So on a private level,not a business reselling, but buying raw research chemicals(not hazmat) powders should not violate law or get oneself locked up? If one is doing private research of some sort.

 

[fatsuperman]

I doubt it, but if you are busted with other stuff, I would expect some additional charges for the research chemicals.

LE sometimes conveniently decides what things are arbitrarily and lets the lawyers sort it out.

 

[nelix]

A substance need not be listed illegal to be illegal.

It only needs to be an analogue in effect or structure of a listed chemical.

 

[fatsuperman]

I'm not sure the the research chem guys are not selling anything that is even close to an analogue of something that is on the controlled substance list. But, They are selling stuff that is normally a prescription drug.

 

[friction515]

I believe the analogue act is in respect solely to schedule one controlled substances. If a substance is not schedule one and is scheduled such as steroids in schedule three. It needs to be specifically listed that any salt or analogue with similar structure or effect will also be illegal. Which they did go ahead and state for steroids if you read the list of scheduled steroids. Well they stated the salts anyway.

Its been a couple of months since I have looked at all of this so its off the top of my head I may not be 100% accurate here. I think its quite close though.

 

[fatsuperman]

Yea were delving into the legalities of pro hormones here not research chemical guys which are a little different.

BTW, I have maintain a moderate inventory of them as well, that I rotate out...just in case

 

[yeahright]

I believe the analogue act is in respect solely to schedule one controlled substances. If a substance is not schedule one and is scheduled such as steroids in schedule three. It needs to be specifically listed that any salt or analogue with similar structure or effect will also be illegal. Which they did go ahead and state for steroids if you read the list of scheduled steroids. Well they stated the salts anyway.

Its been a couple of months since I have looked at all of this so its off the top of my head I may not be 100% accurate here. I think its quite close though.

Anabolic Steroid Control Act:

"The term “anabolic steroid” means any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone (other than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and dehydroepiandrosterone), and includes—"

The AND INCLUDES is the part most people misunderstand because it is followed by a long list a steroids. People look down the list and go "not listed here, must be legal" but the law just gives those as examples.

The italicized portion of the Act quoted above is subject to a lot of interpretation and as long as a good faith argument can be made that a given product meets that definition (any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone), you could be prosecuted.

It doesn't mean that you'd necessarily be convicted...there are lots of possible defenses.....but your life would suck for a couple years while you fought it.

Moreover, the FDA has been taking the position that these hormonal substances do not meet the definition of "dietary supplement" and that they are by default "unapproved drugs." Distribution of unapproved and/or misbranded drugs carries penalties under a different set of laws. As to the research chems, you'd have to see where they are scheduled to figure out possible liability. Off the top of my head, I assume one would be liable for distribution of an unapproved drug for human consumption (since these are research grade not pharmaceutical grade and dispensed without prescription).

 

[fatsuperman]

With the prohormone guys the FDA is basically in a game of whack a mole. Every time they shut one guy down there are 4 companies that make "clones". They just don't have the time to chase that crap around.

Which brings me to the thesis statement. The war on drugs has been a complete and utter failure. Drugs have Won!!!

 

[Ddono25]

I have personally been searched by LE and they found nolvadex (generic tamoxifen actually) in my car, then I was asked by the cop, "Where are you keeping your steroids?". I have never had any ILLEGAL AAS so they couldn't get me on that. They searched and searched and searched couldn't find anything to try and get me on except for the nolva. After a few hours of harrasment during which time I told them I myself was using the nolva for aesthetic/bodybuilding purposes I was sent home and my "Research Chemical" was confiscated. They honestly tried really hard for a few weeks to figure out how to prosecute me for the Tamoxifen but had no legal recourse and it was dropped. I can't say every state is like that with their laws but up here in Beautiful Washington, I enjoy my SERM's without fear!

BTW, I don't know how this cop knew what Tamoxifen Citrate was, but he saw the label and asked me about steroids immediately. Weird.

 

[TeamSavage]

Le?

LE - Law Enforcement

 

[TeamSavage]

BTW, I don't know how this cop knew what Tamoxifen Citrate was, but he saw the label and asked me about steroids immediately. Weird.

I'd bet money he had done a cycle before.

 

[fatsuperman]

How big was the cop that searched you?

I'm with TeamSavage.

Ironic how the LE is probably one of the biggest consumers of AAS after athletes.

 

[Big BAMA]

Buy a rat. then if johnny law shows up point at the rat.:rofl:

 

[Ddono25]

He was an averaged sized guy, late 30's early 40's. I figured he had done a cycle if he knew exactly to ask about steroids or he had done ph's or Superdrol probably. I didn't come out right away and tell them it was for myself but I wasn't about to lie and say it was for research on a rat or that I had a script, I don't want to lie and get falsifying info on the rap sheet as well as the possession, or so my thinking went at the time.

On another note not related to this topic, why do so many cops have to be dickhead's all the time? I always have and always will show them the respect they deserve for putting themselves on the line day in and day out to keep this country more safe, saying yes sir and yes ma'am and being honest with them with any questions, but a few of the officer's were just rude and made really uncalled for remarks. He accused me of being a drug dealer and also accused me of being high, neither of which apply to me. They made rude comments about my car as well as my family. Then one cop straight up pushed me around physically when I was just standing around waiting for them to conclude their search. Maybe they should have searched him for tren

 

[yeahright]

He was an averaged sized guy, late 30's early 40's. I figured he had done a cycle if he knew exactly to ask about steroids or he had done ph's or Superdrol probably. I didn't come out right away and tell them it was for myself but I wasn't about to lie and say it was for research on a rat or that I had a script, I don't want to lie and get falsifying info on the rap sheet as well as the possession, or so my thinking went at the time.

On another note not related to this topic, why do so many cops have to be dickhead's all the time? I always have and always will show them the respect they deserve for putting themselves on the line day in and day out to keep this country more safe, saying yes sir and yes ma'am and being honest with them with any questions, but a few of the officer's were just rude and made really uncalled for remarks. He accused me of being a drug dealer and also accused me of being high, neither of which apply to me. They made rude comments about my car as well as my family. Then one cop straight up pushed me around physically when I was just standing around waiting for them to conclude their search. Maybe they should have searched him for tren

Cops do these things to emphasize their control over the situation (keeps everyone safe) and because people are stupid. If you ask someone a leading question, you'd be surprised how often someone will spontaneously confess to something or allow themselves to be provoked into doing something idiotic.

 

[fatsuperman]

He was an averaged sized guy, late 30's early 40's. I figured he had done a cycle if he knew exactly to ask about steroids or he had done ph's or Superdrol probably. I didn't come out right away and tell them it was for myself but I wasn't about to lie and say it was for research on a rat or that I had a script, I don't want to lie and get falsifying info on the rap sheet as well as the possession, or so my thinking went at the time.

Don't say anything! your under no obligation to say anything to the police. Don't lie, don't tell the truth, just don't say anything. You have that right. Its a very good idea to just say "officer I really don't want to talk about this, until I consult legal counsel" they can't do **** about that statement, and better yet it won't bite you in the ass later in court.

People think I'm goofy, but I peel the labels off my research chemicals. If I don't tell them what it is what are the chances they will waste the time to figure out I have a bottle full of accutane.

Use the laziness of government employees against the system and to your benefit.