Need som advice to reduce SHBG

[deukalion]

Hi to all as im new to this board!

I think i have some hormone problems, indicators of this is that im 22 years old but still havent got any real beard growth, not much hair on my cheast and gentle gynecomastia. Another thing is that i have been training for about 6 months and gained in strenght but not much in muscle mass. I went to a doctor two months ago and he checked my sperm, S-Testosterone and SHBG levels. It turned out that my sperm and S-Testosterone was normal (S-Testosterone was 28 in an interval of 8-35) but my SHBG was high for my age group (49 in a range of 15-50). The doctor didnt take my concerns about the high SHBG levels (which i think is the cause of my problems) serious beacuse it was in the "normal range". I dont know what to do and i really need some advice from you on how to reduce my SHBG to get rid of my problems with sparse beard growth and such.

 

[xxtruxx1]

Hi to all as im new to this board!

I think i have some hormone problems, indicators of this is that im 22 years old but still havent got any real beard growth, not much hair on my cheast and gentle gynecomastia. Another thing is that i have been training for about 6 months and gained in strenght but not much in muscle mass. I went to a doctor two months ago and he checked my sperm, S-Testosterone and SHBG levels. It turned out that my sperm and S-Testosterone was normal (S-Testosterone was 28 in an interval of 8-35) but my SHBG was high for my age group (49 in a range of 15-50). The doctor didnt take my concerns about the high SHBG levels (which i think is the cause of my problems) serious beacuse it was in the "normal range". I dont know what to do and i really need some advice from you on how to reduce my SHBG to get rid of my problems with sparse beard growth and such.

I understand your concern. Here's probably the best answer/suggestion I can give.

First, let's understand what SHBG is, how it works, where it's produced, etc. Knowing about SHBG will help you make an informed decision.

SHBG, or sex hormone-binding globulin, is a glycoprotein which binds to sex hormones such as testosterone & estradiol (estrogen). Hormones bound to SHBG cannot enter a cell & activate the cell's receptor. If you were to get a blood test & check for bound testosterone, it would be test bound to SHBG. Only free hormones (free test) are bioavailable (able to enter the cell & activate its receptor). Therefore, SHBG inhibits the functions of hormones it's bound to. SHBG is produced in the liver & released into the bloodstream. SHBG is also produced by the brain, uterus (which we don't have to worry about), placenta, & testis.

Now that you know a little about SHBG, let's check out some possible causes.

You can have low or high levels of SHBG (obviously the only two choices). We'll focus on causes for high since that is your case. Some things that cause high SHBG levels are pregnancy (from what I know you don't have to worry about this), hyperthyroidism, & anorexia (more common in women, so screw this one too). Now, hyperthyroidism is a possibility. When was the last time you had your T3 & T4 levels checked? If I was you, I would recommend that you go back to your doctor & recommend that he has you take a blood test to check your thyroid levels. Tell him you further researched having high SHBG levels & concluded you wanted to get your thyroid checked. He might not go for it since you fall within normal levels of SHBG in a male (even though you are higher in the normal levels). You may also want to get your estrogen levels checked because high estrogen levels can also cause a rise in SHBG.

Now for control. There are ways to lower SHBG. You can decrease SHBG through use of insulin or IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). High androgen levels also decrease SHBG production & levels in the blood.

Now, my opinion. Get your free test levels checked. If they are within normal ranges for your age, do nothing. If they are not, check your estrogen & thyroid hormone levels. If your doctor won't give you anything, I would begin by taking a natural testosterone enhancer/booster. This would help by increasing levels of free test. You may also want to take an anti-e to decrease the amount of estrogen active in your body. Based on your S-Test levels, I would honestly tell you that you don't have much to worry about. If you are concerned, go to your doctor first & regurgitate everything you've learned & ask him to authorize those tests. Even if he doesn't, you can still hit the labs & have them done (but you will pay full price). This should help. Once you get these done, come back & we can help you further.

 

[deukalion]

I understand your concern. Here's probably the best answer/suggestion I can give.

First, let's understand what SHBG is, how it works, where it's produced, etc. Knowing about SHBG will help you make an informed decision.

SHBG, or sex hormone-binding globulin, is a glycoprotein which binds to sex hormones such as testosterone & estradiol (estrogen). Hormones bound to SHBG cannot enter a cell & activate the cell's receptor. If you were to get a blood test & check for bound testosterone, it would be test bound to SHBG. Only free hormones (free test) are bioavailable (able to enter the cell & activate its receptor). Therefore, SHBG inhibits the functions of hormones it's bound to. SHBG is produced in the liver & released into the bloodstream. SHBG is also produced by the brain, uterus (which we don't have to worry about), placenta, & testis.

Now that you know a little about SHBG, let's check out some possible causes.

You can have low or high levels of SHBG (obviously the only two choices). We'll focus on causes for high since that is your case. Some things that cause high SHBG levels are pregnancy (from what I know you don't have to worry about this), hyperthyroidism, & anorexia (more common in women, so screw this one too). Now, hyperthyroidism is a possibility. When was the last time you had your T3 & T4 levels checked? If I was you, I would recommend that you go back to your doctor & recommend that he has you take a blood test to check your thyroid levels. Tell him you further researched having high SHBG levels & concluded you wanted to get your thyroid checked. He might not go for it since you fall within normal levels of SHBG in a male (even though you are higher in the normal levels). You may also want to get your estrogen levels checked because high estrogen levels can also cause a rise in SHBG.

Now for control. There are ways to lower SHBG. You can decrease SHBG through use of insulin or IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). High androgen levels also decrease SHBG production & levels in the blood.

Now, my opinion. Get your free test levels checked. If they are within normal ranges for your age, do nothing. If they are not, check your estrogen & thyroid hormone levels. If your doctor won't give you anything, I would begin by taking a natural testosterone enhancer/booster. This would help by increasing levels of free test. You may also want to take an anti-e to decrease the amount of estrogen active in your body. Based on your S-Test levels, I would honestly tell you that you don't have much to worry about. If you are concerned, go to your doctor first & regurgitate everything you've learned & ask him to authorize those tests. Even if he doesn't, you can still hit the labs & have them done (but you will pay full price). This should help. Once you get these done, come back & we can help you further.

Thank you very much for the answer!
I will go back to my doctor and make him check my T3, T4, estrogen, insulin, IGF-1 and free test levels and then return with the answers.

 

[xxtruxx1]

Thank you very much for the answer!
I will go back to my doctor and make him check my T3, T4, estrogen, insulin, IGF-1 and free test levels and then return with the answers.

No problem, bro. Just glad I could help. Turns out this pre-med business is paying off lol.

 

[glenihan]

get another doctor if your free test is low and he still won't give you anything

 

[Mach .78]

Why not try some bulk Nettle Root, or Activate from Designer Supps? It is supposed to free up bound test from SBHG. Add some ZMA to the mix at night and see what happens.

 

[motiv8er]

Why not try some bulk Nettle Root, or Activate from Designer Supps? It is supposed to free up bound test from SBHG. Add some ZMA to the mix at night and see what happens.

Hey Mach,

Those may all be good choices, but we are having to look at him from 360 degrees before we try and say heres how you help shbg levels.If he's got a slow Thyroid and high estrogen levels, those problems should be corrected by your doc. Not supplement rats.

 

[Mach .78]

Understood.

 

[TeamSavage]

I believe growth of facial and body hair is regulated primarily by DHT, not by testosterone directly. So perhaps the problem lies in DHT metabolism or some other DHT-mediated issue.

Get a second opinion from an endocrinologist.

Look at the bright side... you're unlikely to go bald.

 

[xxtruxx1]

I believe growth of facial and body hair is regulated primarily by DHT, not by testosterone directly. So perhaps the problem lies in DHT metabolism or some other DHT-mediated issue.

Get a second opinion from an endocrinologist.

Look at the bright side... you're unlikely to go bald.

& he doesn't have to shave every other day!!

 

[glg]

going bald and having to shave every day is the s#$ts.

started a beard so I'd have hair somplace on my head...LOL

 

[CRUNCH]

Nice info xxtruxx1

 

[same_old]

Thank you very much for the answer!
I will go back to my doctor and make him check my T3, T4, estrogen, insulin, IGF-1 and free test levels and then return with the answers.

ask him if he'll do DHT also....low DHT (from a too-low number of 5AR enzymes) can also mean high SHBG (DHT preferentially binds to it over test i believe)

 

[jmh80]

Dude - I WISH I didn't have chest hair.

Mine honestly started to grow when I started taking pro-hormones - while I wouldn't advocate going on a cycle JUST to get facial/body hair, keep it in mind.

 

[motiv8er]

Dude - I WISH I didn't have chest hair.

Mine honestly started to grow when I started taking pro-hormones - while I wouldn't advocate going on a cycle JUST to get facial/body hair, keep it in mind.

I look like Chewbacas stunt double.

 

[jmh80]

Not in your av (but I think that is old - back when you started the ALRI tri-lean stack, right??)

 

[motiv8er]

Not in your av (but I think that is old - back when you started the ALRI tri-lean stack, right??)

One must time one's photo ops when Home Depot puts weed wackers on sale. Any woman who dates must be prepared to manscape me. Otherwise I get an old girlfriend to do it!!

 

[xxtruxx1]

One must time one's photo ops when Home Depot puts weed wackers on sale. Any woman who dates must be prepared to manscape me. Otherwise I get an old girlfriend to do it!!

LOL. What a turn this thread has taken. Norelco Bodygroom for me. I used to use Nair (not for men) since my ex did it to me, but she burned my nipples once & I will never touch the stuff again just out of sheer fear. The Bodygroom is God's gift to men, besides women's little axe wound .

 

[jmh80]

Yeah - if you get some combination of me, Motiv8, Jay, Dsade, Dr. D, or YR in a thread - you better be watchin' out for some thread jackin!
Cuz we 'bout to take this mutha****a off-topic boyeeee!

 

[deukalion]

It turned out that it was estrogen that drove up my SHBG levels. It is high but not too high just as it is with SHBG. Now im looking for a good estro-blocker. Nolvadex?

 

[jomi822]

It turned out that it was estrogen that drove up my SHBG levels. It is high but not too high just as it is with SHBG. Now im looking for a good estro-blocker. Nolvadex?

try anastrazole. aka arimidex

this drug blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone into estrogen...and also has the nice little added effect of punching SHBG in the face on its way through the liver.

good luck getting it from a doctor.


....or you can buy it from an online "chemical research" company for about $30 for 2 or 3 months worth.

hint hint

edit: it is against board rules for us to tell you exactly where you can get it, and its a big no no to even ask. just run a search-a-roo on google

 

[ripped22]

do you have hair on your balls yet?........just checking.

in all seriousness you are still a youngster. at 22 i had no chest or facial hair was rail thin. as you age things begin to change. now i have too much hair and weigh 90 pounds more. give it time, you will become a man...hehhe

a-dex or proviron may make a difference. but i'm just a supplement rat so i'd def listen to your doc.

 

[yeahright]

It turned out that it was estrogen that drove up my SHBG levels. It is high but not too high just as it is with SHBG. Now im looking for a good estro-blocker. Nolvadex?

Is the doctor still counseling no action?

 

[jmh80]

do you have hair on your balls yet?........just checking.

Who in their right mind wants hairy balls?
Females ain't be wantin' to put them in they mouf when they bees hairy.

 

[deukalion]

try anastrazole. aka arimidex

this drug blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting testosterone into estrogen...and also has the nice little added effect of punching SHBG in the face on its way through the liver.

good luck getting it from a doctor.


....or you can buy it from an online "chemical research" company for about $30 for 2 or 3 months worth.

hint hint

edit: it is against board rules for us to tell you exactly where you can get it, and its a big no no to even ask. just run a search-a-roo on google

Any side effects of that in males?How much should i take if im 75kg at 180cm

 

[yeahright]

Any side effects of that in males?How much should i take if im 75kg at 180cm

If you're going to start self-medicating I'd suggest you start with a product like MassFX or Activate. They both contain a nettle root extract which binds with SHBG. See what these do for you before you start indulging in research chems. Just my opinion.

 

[dadream]

To add to what Mach.78 and Yeahright said i think it would be wise to look into over the counter options in treating your askewed hormone levels. And from what you said i use the term "askewed" lightly because from what you told us your shbg and estro levels are in the normal range albeit in the lower and higher range respectively. Using research chems are a bit unneccesary as they are very potent and i feel not needed in your case. OTC products to lower SHBG are Activate or Nettle Root, Mass Fx and some good OTC anti-estrogens that won't totally wipe out your estrogen levels but keep them in check are 6OXO, and Fomorestane, Jungle Warfare, Restore. Just keep researching products and information on this board and i feel that you will have a better understanding of what would work for you.

 

[JohnBrinks]

I noticed how old this thread is but I just have to put down the perfect answer.

Its Priviron, its a mild anabolic that has positive affects of the HPT axis - thats right it elevates natural testoserone levels. Its a DHT derivative and is four times more androgenic than anabolic. In fact it binds to the androgen receptor powerfully - second only to trenbolone. One of its most prominant atributes is its Anti Aromatose activity,

but most of all it binds to the SHBG better than any substance studied!

In terms of an anabolic steriod it wont produce much gains in muscle at all, infact it would be too toxic to take enough to produce descent gains, its the androgenic, anti aromatose and anit SHGB qualities that are most desireable. Its an excellent drug to use as a brige or just while on PCT to help hold on to your gains and help rehabilitate natural test production. If its secondary male sex charcteristics youre after Provirons what youre after, other than that trenbolone is up to 3 times more androgenic but its side affects mean you can only use it temporarily, but I wouldnt use proviron for more than 2 years, and then I would use Aromasin or arimadex for a few months to get yourslef off it, and tapered down very gradually.

Aslo if your have a delayed puberty, I would suggest using some IGF-1, apparently it is what actually kickstarts puberty in men, its very expensive but woirth it. Also some injectable testosterone 400-600mg/w - full time.

 

[henryv]

Proviron... is four times more androgenic than anabolic.

In fact it binds to the androgen receptor powerfully - second only to trenbolone.

...it would be too toxic to take enough to produce decent gains.

Do you have any information to support those three statements?

 

[JohnBrinks]

Do you have any information to support those three statements?

Also if you do your reaserch on nettle root it binds to the androgenic receptor a shuts down the androgenic sides, probably the same with saw palmetto. So even though they would produce more free testosterone by reducing the production of SHBG, it cancells out any androgenic activity produced by any higher possible level of DHT produced as a result. And whats to stop that axtra testosterone from aromatising into estrogen? Proviron will do that!

Sounds too good to be true ha? The rerason this stuff is overlooked by so many is because it has an anabolic:androgenic ratio of 30-40:100-150, so in terms of using it as an under ground steroid for making gains its useless. Deca has a ratio of 125:37 (basically 3 times more anabolic) and the mighty trenbolone has a ratio of 500/500, but like I said it is too dangerouse to use long term.

Proviron has good fat burning proporties too due to its affinity to bind to the receptor so well, second only to tren. And it works from a completely different angle to tren so its a near perfect stack, only problem then is that technically you have an androgenic level of 600-650 in your body which equals massive androgenic sides, hence its very hard to get the real stuff cos nobody bothers selling it. I think this may be a diamond if used correctly, in fact Proviron reduces gyno aswell as estrogen, so no danger of progesterone sides there. You might however need some sort of SSRI or herb like Ashwaganda to keep you from loosing it from all that extra agression, from the two afore mentioned compounds together with all the free test you'd run allong side it due to shut down.

Heres a link on proviron I got most of my info on it:

http://www.steroid.com/Proviron.php

 

[JohnBrinks]

I started a sponsored log today gents:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/164237-size-shape-you.html

 

[henryv]

Proviron is four times more androgenic than anabolic.

In fact it binds to the androgen receptor powerfully - second only to trenbolone.

In fact it would be too toxic to take enough to produce decent gains

The page you referenced says it's four times more androgenic than testosterone, not four times more androgenic than anabolic. I'd also question that statistic, since according to two studies it's less androgenic than testosterone.

The page also doesn't says it's second only to trenbolone, it says of the oral steroids studied it's second to methyl tren, but that nandrolone binds stronger than proviron. In fact the study referenced said that of nandrolone, testosterone, primo, and proviron, proviron bound weakest to AR [1].

I don't see any evidence in there that it would be toxic at anabolic dosages either, and the study he references to claim that it is very weak, actually points out that it has only weak androgenic activity [2], which would appear to contradict his earlier statements.

Synthetic derivates like methyltestosterone are hazardous (hepatomas) or, like mesterolone (proviron), are too weak in their androgenic effect.

[1] http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/114/6/2100
[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6410935

 

[JohnBrinks]

The page you referenced says it's four times more androgenic than testosterone, not four times more androgenic than anabolic. I'd also question that statistic, since according to two studies it's less androgenic than testosterone.

ooooh well excuse me. Pal youre actually making me feel sick, for goodness sake if a bloody argument is what you want go and get a flipping girlfriend.

You cant do simple maths:

Provirons anabolic value is 30 - 40

Provirons androgenic value is 100 - 150

So in worst case 150 devided by 30 = 5 (you can round it off to 4)

I never said its 4 times androgenic than testosterone ether as testosterones androgenic value itself it only 100. I didnt say that, nor that.

This stuff has a higher androgenic value than deca (about 4 times), and I can really notice it. DHT is what mostly produces androgenic sides, thats what this stuff is derived from.

You need to take a look at the actual topic here mofo, this guy is also looking for something to help his testosterone and anti-estrogen - Proviron will even raise natty test levels, AI and bind to the SHBG better than anything studied. And its not too bad for long term use because its not too toxic (for those uses).


Also I never said that page actually stated in words what I stated in words. Through my reading and talking to people who actually have experience, that is what Ive extrapolated. I mean the best way to tell how androgenic something is is to take it, yeah.


p*ss of you prat.

 

[JohnBrinks]

So

I started a sponsored log today gents:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/164237-size-shape-you.html

 

[henryv]

ooooh well excuse me. Pal youre actually making me feel sick, for goodness sake if a bloody argument is what you want go and get a flipping girlfriend.

I'm not looking for an argument, I just don't see why you should expect to post stuff and not have it questioned.

You cant do simple maths:

Provirons anabolic value is 30 - 40

Provirons androgenic value is 100 - 150

So in worst case 150 devided by 30 = 5 (you can round it off to 4)

I never said its 4 times androgenic than testosterone ether as testosterones androgenic value itself it only 100. I didnt say that, nor that.

Lets try this again.

The first column with figures is the ventral prostate, a measurement of the androgenic actions of the steroid. The second column is the seminal vesicles; another measurement of the androgenic properties. The third column is the levator ani - the standard way of measuring the anabolic potential of the compound. So proviron's given an anabolic figure of 100-150, and an androgenic figure of somewhere between 30-73 (vs testosterone). So if we round it off to four (your figure), that makes it four times as anabolic as androgenic, not the other way round.

p*ss of you prat.

Grow up.

 

[JohnBrinks]

Mod edit: first, last warning

 

[JohnBrinks]

Well, you were very annoying about it, and you didnt go about it in a very agree-able manner (hence I didnt agree). And it was quite a piss taking kinda way to set a brother straight. But youre right, Ill let you off. Im sorry I told you to p*ss off. Be carefull how you say things, dont take the piss, it was an easy mistake to make.

Were all here to help eachother.

______________________________________________________________________________

I started a sponsored log today gents:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/164237-size-shape-you.html