you guys are my final decision on gear

[burymestanding]

So to make the long story short, I know of a dr. through a friend who can perscribe... well you know. Anyhow he made it seem like insurance covers the majority of costs and that bloodwork is the worst part. Well I had the bloodwork done through my other dr before I went to see him.
It turns out that I would most likely have to pay ooh just 250 a month to see the dr, and get my stuff from him..... I am a college student I mean come on now, thats way too much! However I did pay close attention to what the dr. wanted me to take. Test and GH....
So I called my trainer and asked if he thought I should alternatively take some generic lab products. I mean those ARE GH products, well some of them. My trainer led me to telling how he knows a person that makes GH and that would be way better than other stuff I could get, and that he could also get me test, but isnt too excited about doing it.
My major concerns are health. My cholesterol is 131, so thats pretty good. I wanted to know what you guys would recomend. I am almost thinking of just going all natural, Ive done it for a while, and dont want to constantly be juicing. I weigh 175lb right now. Dont have the greatist six pack yet, and want to be 185 ripped. So p0lease tell me what you guys think, if I dont get any response im going all natural. Please give some last insight on what you guys think?

 

[xxtruxx1]

Ok first off 175lbs & how tall? What's your BF%? What are your diet & training like? How long have you been training natural? Are you at your genetic limit? Can you be dedicated to a cycle if you start one (I'm a college student too & timing is honestly everything. You can't run a cycle when you're taking 18 credits & working full time for example.)? What are your reasons for wanting to take steroids?

$250 for Test & GH doesn't seem like much, specially if it's legit & you're getting it through a "prescription". At least around here, the frat boys will charge you $250 for a cycle of just Test. I would personally rather give you Test than GH as a trainer.

If you're concerned about health, before you do ANYTHING, research. There are safe & effective ways to run steroids & precautions can be taken to minimize the negative side effects associated with steroid use.

You seem pretty fixated on going natty. Doesn't seem like you're too open to the whole steroid business.

Lastly, if you want a cheap, effective cycle, homebrew is key. Also if you like chemistry it's fun. You can homebrew Test Prop for around $120 & that'll last you an easy 12 weeks with another 12 left over (2 12 week cycles).

My advice, you don't seem ready/secure enough to run a cycle yet. Research more, then decide. Go natty for now. There isn't a hurry, steroids will always be around.

 

[Irish_Rogue]

If you can gain natty then stay natty. Bulk (clean), I am assuming you are still young. Diet, work out routine and dedication are key. Wait til you are my age mate to do it.

 

[xxtruxx1]

Irish is OLD school..lol j/k bro. But 32? You don't think he can run a cycle mid 20's? I'm turning 23 this year & did my first injectable (Test Prop/Tren Ace/T3), well I'm still on it. I had run a few oral cycles before that. Then again, I pretty much had stopped gaining naturally, but I had also been training for about 3 years natty before any use. Depending on his background/age, he may be ready, doesn't seem so though (no offense bro).

 

[xxtruxx1]

Oh & btw, the only reason I think you might not be ready is because of the title of this thread "You guys are my final decision on gear." We shouldn't be. We are here to offer advice & proper use, but this is a decision you need to make yourself & on your own. Whether we tell you to do it or not is just opinion. You also seem hesitant to jump in.

 

[Irish_Rogue]

Irish is OLD school..lol j/k bro. But 32? You don't think he can run a cycle mid 20's? I'm turning 23 this year & did my first injectable (Test Prop/Tren Ace/T3), well I'm still on it. I had run a few oral cycles before that. Then again, I pretty much had stopped gaining naturally, but I had also been training for about 3 years natty before any use. Depending on his background/age, he may be ready, doesn't seem so though (no offense bro).

If he is done growing genetically, then sure. I agree though that he does not seem ready by his title as you pointed out and having someone else decide the fate of his future too.

 

[burymestanding]

Oh & btw, the only reason I think you might not be ready is because of the title of this thread "You guys are my final decision on gear." We shouldn't be. We are here to offer advice & proper use, but this is a decision you need to make yourself & on your own. Whether we tell you to do it or not is just opinion. You also seem hesitant to jump in.

Hey, I guess I sholuld have gave you guys more about me. I am 23 years old 5'10", I think I have around 12%bf. The inacurate electro tester thingys at the gym told me I have 10%, if that helps any. I would love to put on 10 lbs of muscle, and lose some bf too. Thats why gear sounds like such a golden idea haha.

I totally agree with you that this shouldnt be my last place to check before making my final decision. I am just a little edgy about the whole thing. I feel misled by my trainer thinking my insurance would cover everything, and that I would be totally safe under dr. supervision.

My trainer also told me that after my first cycle I would only keep 50% of my results. That I could maybe put on 10lbs, and then keep 5. To be honest, I was thinking it might not be worth the health risks, just for 5 lbs. I dont want to have to continually cycle, and I don't have much money on top of that.

I have a really good diet that goes like this...
Meal 1: 12 grapes 30g whey proten, 1 cup of oats, 8oz fat free milk

Meal 2: 1 cup of brown rice 1 chicken breast, 1 cup of broceli

Meal 3: 1 cup of brown rice, 1 can of tuna, 1 cup of broceli

Meal 4: 4-6oz of lean ground beef, 1 cup of yams

Meal 5: fish, 1 slice of whole wheat bread, 2 tbsp of natty pb&J

Meal 6: 1 extra lean steak (I normally use top sirloin), med salad, 2 tbsp vineager, 2 tbsp oil.

The bottom line is that I really want to put on 10 lbs with SOLID musle, and even lose some bf. I would love to get this within a couple of months, and then maintain it with probably adding a couple percentages of bodyfat. Thanks for your time guys any other thoughts?

 

[xxtruxx1]

My honest opinion:

I hope your trainer is good at training you, cause he seems like a douchebag when it comes to giving advice on the subject at hand.

First off, I'm not 100% sure that you're insurance would cover everything, if anything. You would need to get a full blood panel done & prove that you need HRT (hormone replacement therapy) in order for your insurance to cover it & even then, they might not cover it all depending on what insurance you have & their policy. So, unless the doc is going to fake the blood tests or somehow alter them to prove you need it, your out of luck. Most doctors I know wouldn't do that. If you want more info about insurance & whether or not it's covered, call your insurance & ask & also check out the HRT section here on AM.

Also, just because you're under doctor supervision doesn't mean you will be totally safe. Take it from me, a pre-med student, that most doctors out there aren't very educated in this area. Since he is an endocrinologist (assuming he is to be able to prescribe you steroids), he SHOULD know about steroids & proper use FOR HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY. I don't think, unless he researches the subject recreationally, that he'd be too educated in properly cycling & support supps, etc. Most doctors won't suggest running things like milk thistle, hawthorne berry, celery seed extract, etc as support supps to help throughout the cycle. In fact, when it comes to proper cycling, I'm willing to bet most guys on here know more than most doctors.

Now my suggestion. You definitely don't need GH at 5'10" 175lbs. You still have some room to grow genetically, but you could also cycle if you wanted to. Your trainer is pretty ignorant for saying you will only keep 50% of your results from your first cycle as this is dependent on many things such as diet, proper pct, & what you cycle/for how long. My first cycle was SD solo & I kept most (about 80%) of what I put on. In all honesty, that's the cycle I've kept the most from. You WILL put on more than 10lbs in a cycle, some will be fat, but you can always cut that off. If you run a Test cycle, you can probably put on around 15-20 lbs of mass. Again this all depends on diet, training, and how much you keep is largely PCT dependent. If you only keep 5 lbs from a cycle, you're doing something VERY wrong.

Since you want to do this over months & not weeks, I'd suggest looking into an injectable cycle, probably Test Cyp. It'll be around a 12 week cycle & since you are slowly & steadily adding size to your body, you will be more likely to keep it. If you want to chase the oral route, a 3-4 week cycle of SD would put you up around 18lbs or so (did for me my first time) keeping 15lbs.

In the end it's your call, bro. There are a bunch of logs & info here. I actually have about 3 oral logs & a Test Prop, Tren Ace, T3 log. Other guys have other logs, pretty much anything you can think of.

Take your time, look around, educate yourself. You can run a proper, healthy cycle without doctor supervision. You'll definitely need to get bloodwork done though as this is the only way to really judge health pre, during, & post cycle.

Hope this helped.

 

[burymestanding]

My honest opinion:

I hope your trainer is good at training you, cause he seems like a douchebag when it comes to giving advice on the subject at hand.

First off, I'm not 100% sure that you're insurance would cover everything, if anything. You would need to get a full blood panel done & prove that you need HRT (hormone replacement therapy) in order for your insurance to cover it & even then, they might not cover it all depending on what insurance you have & their policy. So, unless the doc is going to fake the blood tests or somehow alter them to prove you need it, your out of luck. Most doctors I know wouldn't do that. If you want more info about insurance & whether or not it's covered, call your insurance & ask & also check out the HRT section here on AM.

Also, just because you're under doctor supervision doesn't mean you will be totally safe. Take it from me, a pre-med student, that most doctors out there aren't very educated in this area. Since he is an endocrinologist (assuming he is to be able to prescribe you steroids), he SHOULD know about steroids & proper use FOR HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY. I don't think, unless he researches the subject recreationally, that he'd be too educated in properly cycling & support supps, etc. Most doctors won't suggest running things like milk thistle, hawthorne berry, celery seed extract, etc as support supps to help throughout the cycle. In fact, when it comes to proper cycling, I'm willing to bet most guys on here know more than most doctors.

Now my suggestion. You definitely don't need GH at 5'10" 175lbs. You still have some room to grow genetically, but you could also cycle if you wanted to. Your trainer is pretty ignorant for saying you will only keep 50% of your results from your first cycle as this is dependent on many things such as diet, proper post cycle therapy, & what you cycle/for how long. My first cycle was superdrol solo & I kept most (about 80%) of what I put on. In all honesty, that's the cycle I've kept the most from. You WILL put on more than 10lbs in a cycle, some will be fat, but you can always cut that off. If you run a Test cycle, you can probably put on around 15-20 lbs of mass. Again this all depends on diet, training, and how much you keep is largely PCT dependent. If you only keep 5 lbs from a cycle, you're doing something VERY wrong.

Since you want to do this over months & not weeks, I'd suggest looking into an injectable cycle, probably Test Cyp. It'll be around a 12 week cycle & since you are slowly & steadily adding size to your body, you will be more likely to keep it. If you want to chase the oral route, a 3-4 week cycle of SD would put you up around 18lbs or so (did for me my first time) keeping 15lbs.

In the end it's your call, bro. There are a bunch of logs & info here. I actually have about 3 oral logs & a Test Prop, Tren Ace, T3 log. Other guys have other logs, pretty much anything you can think of.

Take your time, look around, educate yourself. You can run a proper, healthy cycle without doctor supervision. You'll definitely need to get bloodwork done though as this is the only way to really judge health pre, during, & post cycle.

Hope this helped.

That helped ALOT. In fact that is the reason why I love this website, because of people like you. I did have my blood test done, the only prob. is that it didnt include testosterine count. gr,
Here is my part of my Lipid panel for cholesterol
cholesterol 131
HDL Cholesterol 56
percent HDL 43
LDL Cholesterol, CALC 66

I have no family history of heart problems. My dad has high blood pressure, but I do not... thats about it

So what I am now thinking is TRN/ZOL. I had a friend who worked at a supplement store. He recomends that If I decide to do anything to do TRN. Then I read a few logs on it, liked how it sounded, and got a really good opinion on the matter which recomended TRN/ZOL. Then I called a well known guy who lives around me and asked him, and he recomended TRN/ZOL as well, so im really thinking this should be it. I mean as far as my goals go to put on 10 lbs of lean mass that I can keep sounds pretty good. expecially to think it could help me cut as well. any other thoughts?

 

[thetimbomb]

Ive never run TRN or ZOL, but ( correct me if im wrong) i couldve sworn that TRN doesnt add much mass, just gives insane jumps in strength. ZOL on the other hand .. i have no idea.

How would you be running / stacking these?

 

[xxtruxx1]

That helped ALOT. In fact that is the reason why I love this website, because of people like you. I did have my blood test done, the only prob. is that it didnt include testosterine count. gr,
Here is my part of my Lipid panel for cholesterol
cholesterol 131
HDL Cholesterol 56
percent HDL 43
LDL Cholesterol, CALC 66

I have no family history of heart problems. My dad has high blood pressure, but I do not... thats about it

So what I am now thinking is TRN/ZOL. I had a friend who worked at a supplement store. He recomends that If I decide to do anything to do TRN. Then I read a few logs on it, liked how it sounded, and got a really good opinion on the matter which recomended TRN/ZOL. Then I called a well known guy who lives around me and asked him, and he recomended TRN/ZOL as well, so im really thinking this should be it. I mean as far as my goals go to put on 10 lbs of lean mass that I can keep sounds pretty good. expecially to think it could help me cut as well. any other thoughts?

Personally I ran TRN in 1 of my oral cycles (a 6 weeker). I never had any gyno problems before or anything of that nature. On my first superdrol solo cycle I just had puffy nipps, which Rebound XT took care of. For some reason when I ran M-TRN, I got gyno (I believe it was progesterone induced as I think M-TRN is a trenbolone derivative). Don't get me wrong, it's a great compound. The massive increases in strength were seriously like nothing I had seen before. I didn't notice much of an increase in size, but I was also 197lbs at the time. From what I know about M-TRN, it doesn't add much size, simply insane strength. If I am correct here (not sure) zol is a Prostanozol knock off? If it is, Prostanozol won't add much size either. Both of these compounds are not methylated, so stacking them isn't a huge issue. I don't really know if this is the best cycle to go with, specially with no previous anabolic use for your goals.

If I suggested a cycle based on your goals it'd be either a Superdrol solo cycle (since you seem set on orals), or Superdrol/Prostanozol stack for added hardness & easier kept gains (Prostanozol helps solidify gains). Hell you can even go with Phera Plex instead of SD to see how it treats you.

Personally though, I'd say Test Cyp. Test is best. Also you will see far less sides from an injectable cycle than from an oral cycle. Injectable is much easier on the body, specially the liver as methylated orals place added stress on the liver as well as the kidneys. Instead of popping pills everday, you'll be doing twice weekly injects. You'll definitely get better results. Pinning is a breeze (I got nervous when i saw a 1 1/2in 29g needle I need to stick in me, but after the first pin, it's all downhill). I've actually hit bi's, tri's, lats, traps, glutes, ventros, pecs, delts, & 1 quad (I HATE quads, they get too sore & I can't walk right for a day or two. Then again I was using Test Prop which is the most painful).

There are just more positives in an injectable cycle, but if you're set on orals, search the board for my Superdrol log. It has a bunch of great info about support supps & all that as well as before & after pictures & post post cycle therapy pictures. Make sure you have ALL your support & PCT supps on hand before starting your cycle.

 

[xxtruxx1]

Here are the links to 2 of my oral cycles you should look at:

Superdrol only
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/35381-my-superdrol-cycle-6.html

6 Week Oral Stack (M-TRN included)
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/41823-opinions-needed-oral.html

Some of the pics might've been taken down because of room issues & uploading new ones, but if you want them I've still got them.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Here are the links to 2 of my oral cycles you should look at:

Superdrol only
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/35381-my-superdrol-cycle-6.html

6 Week Oral Stack (M-TRN included)
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/41823-opinions-needed-oral.html

Some of the pics might've been taken down because of room issues & uploading new ones, but if you want them I've still got them.

damn i wish i had your arms. im grateful that out of all my body parts my legs are my strong point, but i wish my arms would at least grow a LITTLE. i cant seem to get them to budge. my shoulders totally overtake my arms, namely my triceps. looks bad. i have big legs, a thick, wide back. decent chest, nice traps, good shoulders and tiny arms. (16in). blah.

 

[gotripped]

Juice won't get you ripped homie.
It's all in the diet and the cardio, along with some certain weighted decline ab workouts and some roman chair. Juice just helps that process speed up.

 

[xxtruxx1]

damn i wish i had your arms. im grateful that out of all my body parts my legs are my strong point, but i wish my arms would at least grow a LITTLE. i cant seem to get them to budge. my shoulders totally overtake my arms, namely my triceps. looks bad. i have big legs, a thick, wide back. decent chest, nice traps, good shoulders and tiny arms. (16in). blah.

Mine are only 16.5in last I checked :blink:.

 

[t-bone2]

I have a really good diet that goes like this...
Meal 1: 12 grapes 30g whey proten, 1 cup of oats, 8oz fat free milk

Meal 2: 1 cup of brown rice 1 chicken breast, 1 cup of broceli

Meal 3: 1 cup of brown rice, 1 can of tuna, 1 cup of broceli

Meal 4: 4-6oz of lean ground beef, 1 cup of yams

Meal 5: fish, 1 slice of whole wheat bread, 2 tbsp of natty pb&J

Meal 6: 1 extra lean steak (I normally use top sirloin), med salad, 2 tbsp vineager, 2 tbsp oil.

Food choices are good, but you're probably undereating if you're trying to gain mass. What's the macro breakdown and total Kcals? It looks like Kcals from CHO is too small for adding mass. Also, I don't know what your end of day oil source is, but I don't see any EFAs listed. Generally light on fats as well.

 

[xxtruxx1]

I just thought he was trying to lean out pre-cycle. He's right bro, you're going to have to edit that diet for a lean bulk. You'll need to get in at least 3500 kcals. You might want to throw more carbs in there as well as EFA into your shakes.

 

[burymestanding]

you guys are totally right. I was comming down from 200lbs, so my diet has pretty much been considerations to cutting. I didnt even think of changing it to bulking.

What would you guys recomened that I add in/or substitute? I know this sounds totally lame, but I am not exactly sure what an EFA is?

 

[burymestanding]

damn i wish i had your arms. im grateful that out of all my body parts my legs are my strong point, but i wish my arms would at least grow a LITTLE. i cant seem to get them to budge. my shoulders totally overtake my arms, namely my triceps. looks bad. i have big legs, a thick, wide back. decent chest, nice traps, good shoulders and tiny arms. (16in). blah.

Mine are 16" too, dont feel bad!

 

[burymestanding]

Juice won't get you ripped homie.
It's all in the diet and the cardio, along with some certain weighted decline ab workouts and some roman chair. Juice just helps that process speed up.

Hey, I just looked over your TRN/ZOL log, pretty interesting! So for my goals of wanting to gain 10lbs, and drop a bit of bf (I know thats not what juice is to do) then this wouldnt be a good recomendation? I really am pretty strict on wanting to be as healthy as possible.

Ooh and I heard this could be a good 1st cycle considering I have never done a cycle before.

 

[t-bone2]

you guys are totally right. I was comming down from 200lbs, so my diet has pretty much been considerations to cutting. I didnt even think of changing it to bulking.

What would you guys recomened that I add in/or substitute? I know this sounds totally lame, but I am not exactly sure what an EFA is?

EFA = Essential Fatty Acids. Fats our bodies require but that must come from external sources. The two of interest and that you probably hear about are Omega-3 and Omega-6. Without going into too much detail, the body uses these to make two other fatty acids, EPA and DHA. The two primary sources of EFAs are species of cold water fish, especially salmon, and flax. (And, if you ask Bobo, he'd probably say that Hemp oil is superior...) It comes as a supplement in liquid form as fish or flax oil or in gel cap form as fish oil. Or if you have access to quality fish all the better. Do a little research on this one - lots of data around.

As far as additional CHO choices, I'd seach for glycemic load (different than glycemic index) and focus on foods that are low on the scale.

 

[t-bone2]

Also, if you are going to add EFAs to you shakes, don't add them to either your pre- or PWO shake. Attempt to keep fat consumption low leading up to and for awhile after your workout.

 

[xxtruxx1]

t-bone is right add EFA's to your morning/before bed shake. That's what I do along with egg whites lol. Gives you crazy gas, but hey, that's 1 healthy shake.

As for your diet, add whole wheat grains. Your macro breakdown should be 45% carbs, 40% protein, 15% fat & you kcals should be between 4000-4500/day total.

 

[Distilled Water]

t-bone is right add EFA's to your morning/before bed shake. That's what I do along with egg whites lol. Gives you crazy gas, but hey, that's 1 healthy shake.

As for your diet, add whole wheat grains. Your macro breakdown should be 45% carbs, 40% protein, 15% fat & you kcals should be between 4000-4500/day total.

Always cook your eggs though or else your opnly getting 50% of the protein and more uneeded gas......

Yea those are good rules to follow as far as caloric breakdown. Maybe start a little lower on the cals and add bout 500 each week

 

[xxtruxx1]

Always cook your eggs though or else your opnly getting 50% of the protein and more uneeded gas......

Yea those are good rules to follow as far as caloric breakdown. Maybe start a little lower on the cals and add bout 500 each week

It's not raw eggs, but pasteurized egg whites from the carton. The only reason to cook it would be to kill bacteria, but since it's pasteurized, there's no reason to. By cooking it, you're denaturing the protein, well some of it at least mostly depending on temperature & time. I've never heard that cooking a food helps activate protein in it or aid in protein absorption or increases the percentage of protein acquired from consumption.

I get gas cause dairy just gives me very light gas, although I'm not lactose intolerant.

 

[Irish_Rogue]

Hey, I just looked over your TRN/ZOL log, pretty interesting! So for my goals of wanting to gain 10lbs, and drop a bit of bf (I know thats not what juice is to do) then this wouldnt be a good recomendation? I really am pretty strict on wanting to be as healthy as possible.

Ooh and I heard this could be a good 1st cycle considering I have never done a cycle before.

I am on my 2nd week of TRN/ZOL, not much in the first week, the second week has a definite change in body comp. My abs are showing nicely and my Bf is down whilst gaining 3lbs thus far. I would say it would be a good first stack for you.

 

[boti420]

if you wanna stay natural (for now) change up your routine and maybe take a little break, after 4 years of lifting i am now getting the best gains of my life and it's without the use of gear/ph, i took a 3 month break (it was unintentional i would only recommend maybe 2 weeks) and now that i'm back at lifting i'm doing it real smart, my diet is super clean and since i knew my strengh would be down a lot i focus on proper techique instead of ego boosting myself with heavy weights and it's made a world of difference, such a difference in fact that i pushed back my first test cycle to sometime next year, If you want to have a low test count in your bloodwork for insurance to cover you can take 10mg M1t for 3-4 days, if anything is gonna lower your test levels i'm pretty sure that will, just leave yourself 2 days for the m1t to clear your system before the bloodwork.

 

[burymestanding]

So after reading some logs, i am thinking the TRN/Zol isnt the greatist idea. My gf's little brother who is 18, a great kid, and no offense has no real diet. He has put on CONSIDERABLE amount of mass, in fact its insane from xmass.

All I want guys is a lean 10 lbs.

Any thoughts on methoxy tst & mega trn?

I am thinking it was a good call to suggest more carbs to my diet, so im thinking of throwing in an aditional 1/2cup to 1 cup of oats w/ breakfast.
1/2cup of brown rice to my second and third meal, to even 1 full cup? I was also thinking of getting more efas by getting the omega 3 pills? and for protein maybe throw in 2 scoops of ceasin before bed so an aditional 60g?

ooh, and I also wanted to tell you guys, the Dr. Was going to perscribe me ph & test.... Maybe that would help the direction that I am going in?

I am also thinkig of getting some xmass. let me know please you guys. Whatever is the safest way to build 10lbs, and remember I have never done a cycle before in my likfe!

 

[xxtruxx1]

Your gf's little brother is going to hurt himself. Taking PH's at 18 is ridiculous, specially if he is uneducated in the matter.

Honestly, the success of the cycle depends more on diet/training, not so much the compound. You can control how much weight you put on simply by adjusting your diet or doing some cardio accordingly. Remember, you will blow up, but you do lose some during PCT. If you want to keep 10lbs, you should be aiming for 15-17lbs during cycle.