Am I missing anything for this Cycle??
- 10-22-2006, 12:17 PM
Am I missing anything for this Cycle??
Im 5'9" 195lbs. 9%BF and looking to bulk to 215lbs. I have done a few prior cycles of Masterdrol 4 weeks (10/20/20/30) and Pher-X 4 weeks (15/30/30/30). Both were great and blood work was perfect. In 2~3 weeks Im starting my 3~4 week M1T (5~10mg) cycle. I'm pretty sure I have everything, but I havent ran M1T before and I want to double check I have everything......
AI's Cycle support
Truck Load of Taurine
2 bottles PowerFULL or Fenugreek (which should I roll with and @ what doses)
ZMA (3 nightly)
*I also have Rebound XT (3/4 bottle, use it or not???)
Vitamin B6 (100mg 3x's a day)
Misc "ON" Supps:
Ultamite Pump Stack (nutraplanet)
2 tubs Muscle Milk
10lbs. ATW protein
Glutamine (10 grams daily)
EAA's (10 grams daily)
EFA's (6 caps NOW Food brand daily)
Misc Pct Supps:
2 tubs Muscle Milk
10lbs. ATW protein
Ultimate Pump Stack
Glutamine (20 grams Daily)
BCAA's (20 grams Daily)
EAA's (20 grams Daily)
Cissus (2 grgrams Daily)
Shopping List/ Diet is good. Roughly 4,000 cals a day of ~400gr. Protein/400gr. Carbs/ 100gr. Fat (85-90% good). Will increase Calories by about 300-400 cals each weeks til done with PCT. During Pct I will drop carbs a bit.
-Alright guys how is everything looking?
- 10-22-2006, 12:27 PM
are you going to use nolva or clomid?
- 10-22-2006, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by thesinner
edit: I didnt use either in the other two cycles either
10-22-2006, 01:43 PM
cough* board sponsors*cough lame excuseOriginally Posted by Distilled Water
seriously, you should use one of them
10-22-2006, 02:30 PM
def add some nolvadex. but in really this is overkill, I have seen a couple of people sup themselves into being sick on ocasion. don't over do it ether.
Big props for the preplanning
BTW M1T is basically anabolic rat posion so proceed at your own risk.
I would add some ALA of some kind though and I would go with the powerfull
10-22-2006, 02:40 PM
cough* Big thanks cough* stil kinda new here....lolOriginally Posted by Pioneer
10-22-2006, 03:05 PM
You really need clomid, nolvadex, or toremifene! M1 is not like the other two, it will shut your a$$ down hard and I dont even think all that other PCT stuff will help much with that. Dont make the mistake of running cycles without SERMs for PCT its just the safest most helpful way to do it.
Im kinda with skye on this, I think maybe eliminate the mass pump stack. If anything maybe just one type of creatine on cycle. But def use PFull, and the Mass stack post cycle. Isnt Restore an AI? If so then no need for the Rebound XT.
Why no multivitamins?
10-22-2006, 04:47 PM
Yeah M1T shut me down HARD. I'm not just talking about the testes, as it pretty much shut down my entire body and brain. I was definitely happy that I had Clomid, so get yourself some Nolva or Clomid.
You might also want to consider getting enough morphine so you can nod off for the 23 hours a day that you're not working out. In retrospect, I wish I had some during the 3rd week of my cycle to relieve the worst M1T side effect I experienced: "full-body misery". (On second thought, bad idea... would just suppress test production further.)
10-22-2006, 04:54 PM
how much were you using?Originally Posted by TeamSavage
10-22-2006, 05:02 PM
It was a very moderate dose. If I remember correctly it was 5/10/10 or 10/10/15. But it was a few years ago so I'm not 100% sure.Originally Posted by pistonpump
Normally I'm quite resistant to most compounds and don't get sick easily. For whatever reason M1T and my biology just did not get along at all.
10-22-2006, 06:15 PM
It looks like you've do your pre cycle home work. But... I would, without a doubt, have some clomid or nolva on hand if you must run M-1-raT poison. Remember, there are a lot of great PHs out there right now with no where near the sides of M1T. Just my 2 cents.
10-23-2006, 08:01 AM
Um..since im not a gold member can I contact boardsponsers thru PM???
10-23-2006, 08:15 AM
no and be careful here as you should not be trying to find these type of things on this board. I can tell you that if you did a google search looking for "tamoxifen citrate research" you will get all kinds of threads that point to the right places and then some.Originally Posted by Distilled Water
For more info on how to use this stuff I suggest visiting New Page 1
10-23-2006, 08:22 AM
Thanks Man, big help.Originally Posted by Skye
Now I know
10-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Ok I have nolva and clomid. What would be a good PCT protocall now I was thinking
ps(I found an unopened bottle of Now Tribulus 1,000mg + Retain),
Week 1: 150mg clomid, 25mg Rebound XT, 200mg DHEA, 2gr. Tribulus, Retain 150 mg
Week 2: 60mg Nolva, 25mg Rebound XT, 200mg DHEA, 2.5 gr Tribulus, Retain 100mg
Week 3: 40mg Nolva, 50mg Rebound XT, 100mg DHEA, 3 gr. Tribulus, Retain 100mg
Week 4: 20mg Nolva, 75 mg Rebound XT, 100 mg DHEA 3.5 gr. Tribulus, Retain 50 mg
10-23-2006, 04:57 PM
Don't get scared off by all these whiners when it comes to M1T. I'm in week 4 of an M1T cycle right now, 20mg a day. I feel great - the only sides I've experienced is a solid 10 lbs weight gain and nice strength gains. I recommend Liv 52 with some milk thistle for liver protectant. As for your PCT - DHEA is highly suspect to include in there. It is a hormone that could continue to hinder the HPTA - that risk compared to it's pitiful (if any) advantages, makes it not a good thing in PCT. Rebound XT? You like that crap? I guess you don't like getting boners - because that stuff beats your libido like a rented mule. I would just go with Nolva at 40,40,20,20. And maybe some clomid if you feel the need. The rest of that ****e is useless at best. Keep it simple, true, and proven - Nolva and stay with your diet and workouts - that's the best way to go.Originally Posted by Distilled Water
10-23-2006, 05:03 PM
I wouldn't go with M1t you just feel like plain crap on it and it's stupid harsh on your body. Why not do Testosterone enthanate+Superdrol, or Superdrol+Mega-TRN, anything but M1t, lol.
10-23-2006, 05:19 PM
It was pretty close to what Dr.D had his PCT protocall as so I thru it out there. I know I talk to old timers at the gym and they sound like you so Im in a pradicament.Originally Posted by Stupes
I have the Rebound XT because I ordered it on accident and used it for a week with DHEA and Trib. I got deathly ill and stopped all of them. I found all 3 a couple of weeks ago when I moved so....
I know I will use Nolva, Tribulus, ZMA, and Retain for pct thats for sure. I was on the fence about the DHEA so ill hear a little more before I make a decision.
I have no access to the real stuff my freind thats why I choose M1T, and I want to give it a run because it is no more. Got to try everything once!!!!!
10-23-2006, 07:37 PM
yeah, i never tried DHEA for PCT or for anything for that matter. I dont like it and i think its suspect. ZMA, Retain, and tribulus a plus. Dymatize z-force is a zma supp with tribulus. its cheap too so give it a go maybe 2 bottles. I used RXT for PCT but i kept it at a lower dose than that. Still dont know if it is neccessary, does hurt libido tho'. Next pct im going to try some Maca too. I like the fact you got the Grub On during cycle, i dont know if it works but youll need an appetite stimulant in there cuz each cycle of M1t i did I found it hard to eat. i guess you should be starting soon...dont go higher than 15mg its really not needed.
10-23-2006, 09:02 PM
Yea after my workout 2nite and talking to the old timers im over the DHEA.Originally Posted by pistonpump
What did u run/dose the RXT at. I have it so Im going to use it. Maybe 50mg Thru out??
Im going to use NOW Testo-Jack its 800mg ZMA + 250mg Trib + 100mg LongJack and other old man boner stuff...lol for about $15
Im waiting for my protein order because I have NONE Then Im going to start the cycle on Oct. 30th and run it 3weeks maybe 4 if sides are tollerable. (I havent seen much in other cycles knock on wood). Im going to start @ 5mg for the 1st few days then 10mg. By week 3 if sides are ok @ 10 then I'll bump it to 15mg for the last 7 days or so.
I'll Keep a daily log. Hope to post pictures (need to find USB cord after moveing).
IF ANYONE HAS ANY OTHER ADVICE FOR THE M1T CYCLE, LET ME HEAR IT!!!!!!
10-23-2006, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Distilled Water
5 mg is not going to do anything for you. I would start with 15 and if you feel rough knock it down to 10. It's not like a real cycle where you will be on for 10+ weeks and have time to mess with doseage. You will be on for 4 weeks tops - why waste time? Start with 15mg and if you feel well after 2 weeks bump it up to 20mg. ZMA, Retain, and so forth are all fine in PCT - good choice to drop the DHEA. M1T does not convert to estrogen so when you come off cycle - you won't have much in your system and the Rebound will kill it even more. You need Estrogen for good cholesterol and for HGH output. Estrogen will allow you to keep some mass - it's important. The Rebound will hurt this big time. The Nolva will keep it under control but still allow it to exist - which is what you want. The only time the Rebound will help is if you take 25mg from the 4th week of Nolva and extend it out 2 more weeks - so you will have a 6 week PCT. This will prevent any Estrogen rebound from when you come off of the Nolva. That dose of 25mg is plenty - you don't want to much of it. More is not better - even in PCT.
10-23-2006, 11:06 PM
run a 6 week pct.
m1t has been shown in blood tests to be completely supressive up to two weeks after cessation of use. Youll also probably still make some strength gains for the two weeks after your last dose..its not uncommon.
DHEA for post cycle therapy is a horrible idea, and i dont know how it gained popularity. Low doses to even yourself out in the beginning are fine, but its the same as exogenous test, not to mention it forms some nasty E metabolites. maybe 50 mgs at the most for the first few days of pct until you natural production kicks in a little. anything after that and you might as well try doing pct on test prop.
i have seen 200mgs of DHEA boost test levels to 1600ng/dl.
using toremifene will knock your nuts back into shape in record time. I am a firm proponent of tor over chlomid/nolva. the stuff is amazing
10-23-2006, 11:13 PM
I like the advice for the PCT and the RXT thats kind of how i did it. but i started at 25mg EOD at a little before the end of SERM use.Originally Posted by Stupes
I disagree with your advice for the M1t dosing. I believe you can still get gains equal to 20mg with just 10mg. Start slow its not a race. work your way up or just destroy lipids etc right off the bat if thats what you want.
10-24-2006, 12:15 AM
Whiners? I know of at least on case that a guy ran M1T for two weeks and got a worse liver panel then what 6 weeks 10 times the amount in A bombs. That is not whining, that is just being smart about what we are doing here. There just is no reason to run M1T now that itís illegal; there are far safer ones that are just as effective. And there are some legal ones that aren't bad ether. There just really isn't any reason to run it and anyone taking M1T lightly needs to stop and think about what they are doing. And just because your not feeling the side does not mean that they arenít there, 4 weeks on 20mg I know that your liver isnít liking you too much right know.Originally Posted by Stupes
10-24-2006, 07:35 AM
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that M1T is anything to be taken lightly - neither is Superdrol, Phera Plex, or any such oral steriod. But 4 weeks on M1T is not going to damage the liver permanately - it will cause stress on the liver - bad liver readings while on cycle is telling us just that - it's stressed. It will bounce back unless you go longer or do more than a couple 4 weekers a year. M1T should not be run for longer than 4 weeks and should not be run again for a long time after that. However - 5mg for a guy who has some steriod history is only going to poison his liver and get no actual gains in return - it's a waste. There are literally a couple hundred thousand people in this country that did 20mg or more of M1T for 4 weeks. It's the most used oral out there - because of it's former legalality. And it is now a bandwagon thing to freak out on a guy doing it - clowns who have never touched the stuff are spouting off like they are Patric Arnold. Do it right for 3 or 4 weeks or don't do it at all. That's my point and I'm sticking to it.Originally Posted by Skye
10-24-2006, 12:35 PM
m1t puts on incredible size and strength gains, very similiar to anadrol, only it doesnt have the estrogenic side effects. you dont bloat half as much and everyone i have spoken to leaned out considerably on m1t. people typically pack on some fat with anadrol.Originally Posted by Skye
i have never used a stronger steroid than m1t; moderate dosed test, deca, and eq dont even compare in my mind.
the only thing that could be considered close are high dose dbol and tren will provide similiar strength gains...at higher doses. anadrol is probably the closest match except for the differences i mentioned above. dont underestimate m1t. i am seriously considering getting my hands on some of the raw m1t powders coming in overseas.
10-24-2006, 02:17 PM
Exactly - that's the reason you would use M1T - because it works. It doesn't have the Estrogenic sides of A-Bombs or D-Bol but you get more Toxticity instead. D-Bol can be safely run for 6 weeks and with an AI - you cut down those sides - but also the gains. All orals are toxic - and there are some more toxic than the dreaded M1T - Halotestin surely is. Winni kills HDL and LDL like nothing else. Superdrol is no cakewalk either. People should realize that just because you stay away from M1T - that don't mean you can run Phera Plex 4 on 4 off for a year. M1T is harsh but people freak out on it and let other stuff ride. Makes no sense. Treat it with respect and take care of you liver protectants and don't take 5mg if you have experience because it's a waste of time and health.Originally Posted by jomi822
10-24-2006, 03:10 PM
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10-24-2006, 04:26 PM
Thanks pal. I see u got a thing for Rachel Ray too....My girlfriend doesnt understand what i see in her. I think shes jelous lol.Originally Posted by gotripped
Whats the conversion rate for liquid nolva? If i have a 60ml vial will that last post cycle therapy???? I NEED TO KNOW THE SOONER THE BETTER!!!!!!!
edit: 1 ml=20mg??? Im so sh*tty with conversions, damnit i knew i should have paod more attention in chemistry.
10-24-2006, 04:34 PM
amen.Originally Posted by Stupes
off topic a little but, how would a low dose m1t be with a dbol cycle jumpstart? Ive been thinking about it for a couple days now. Guess maybe I'll start a new thread...
I cant wait for you to start distilled sounds like a M1t cycle with all the procautions taken. Hope the Grub On works.
10-24-2006, 04:51 PM
Thanks I wish everyone would go about cycles like this, then alot of our goodies may not be banned.Originally Posted by pistonpump
As far as the Grub On goes I hope so to. Im eating about 3500 cals a day and its going great I find my self straving if I go more than 1.5hr. w/o eating so this is a good sign. Just keep your fingers crossed 4 me.
Another thing. I did a skin fold today in one of my college classes and it came back 7.8% and weighed in @ 192. Personally I dont think I look 7.8% but i hold ALOT of water (internal sodium problem nothing big) The sad thing is I lost almost a full inch on the pipes and chest after the 10 week hardcore trainning lay-off because of baseball season . The strength is stil there but the size is....on vacation????
10-24-2006, 04:55 PM
well the size better get off its ass and get back to work! Guns need to be made! haha
I just hope that you dont even need the Grub On, I think the sides from most orals are just do to to much body stress. So with all the support supps etc im hoping that lethargy and loss of appetite dont start to crawl up your butt lol.
7.8% wow thats pretty f*ckin good bro.
10-24-2006, 06:24 PM
Hey I dropped the MASS PUMP STACK during cycle. BUT.....I have some creatine mono & CEE sitting around would it be worth useing? Somthing like 2.5gr. each pre & post workout?
I also cut out the EAA's & glutamine while "ON"
When i come "OFF" I'm putting 20 grams glutamine, 20 grams BCAA, and my Vitamin B6 in a gallon jub of crystal lite and drinking it throught the day. Sound like a good idea?
10-24-2006, 07:25 PM
There is a thread posted here somewhere on the benefiets of creatine and oral steriods. That would be fine i would think. Go with the CEE if you bloat on mono.
I dont have very much experience with BCAA and glutamine besides whats in my normal protien shakes. Its probably a good idea tho'. You might still want to keep that while on too, IMO.
10-24-2006, 08:45 PM
Yea i bloat a bit on mono but i feel stronger on mono vs. CEE I'll do 2.5 of both.Originally Posted by pistonpump
I have to see what the pockets will allow withe the BCAA's+Glutmine while "on"
Heres the new PCT what u guys think
Week1: 40mg Nolva, 3gr Trib, ZMA, 3 Retain
Week2: 40mg Nolva, 3gr Trib, ZMA, 3 Retain
Week3: 20mg Nolva, 4gr. Trib, ZMA, 2 Retain
Week4: 20mg Nolva, 4gr Trib, ZMA, 2 Retain
Week5: 10mg Nolva, 3 gr Trib, 25mg Rebound XT, 1 Retain
Week6: 2 gr Trib, 25mg Rebound XT
Hows that looking guys---->liquid Nolva is 1ml=20mg RIGHT????
10-24-2006, 08:55 PM
PCT looks really good. As for the Nolva dose - I use the tabs so I can't help you there. I'm sure someone will though.Originally Posted by Distilled Water
10-24-2006, 10:40 PM
Yeah the PCT looks good. I like 60mg the first week tho' but thats just me. As far as the nolva dosing, it depends on where you bought it from. The place i got mine at has it at 40mg/ml and that is excluding the citrate weight at the end of it. You might want to ask if they included the citrate in the dosing parameter. Yours doesnt say on the bottle?
10-24-2006, 11:07 PM
IBE 20mg/ml-60ml thats whay it saysOriginally Posted by pistonpump
10-25-2006, 12:26 AM
then its 20mg/ml and you have 60 20mg doses in the bottle.
you would have to email them or something to find out if 20mg is 20mg of tamoxifen not 16mg tamoxifen and 4mg citrate. I know there is a thread on here where they breakdown the actual numbers/ratios.
11-01-2006, 01:49 PM
OK i just got done capping all of my Cissus from Nutraplanet, and thank god im done bc that was a b*tch.
-What would be a doseing protocal for Cissus while on M1T?
-Same as not "on" or what?
-Should I just save it for my tendons and joints, and possibly natural test, post cycle?
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