Lipid and Liver Tests - Superdrol

[TeamSavage]

I'm preparing to run my first cycle of Superdrol (in either 4 or 8 weeks), and I plan to have blood tests run before, immediately after stopping SD, and after PCT.

I'm running the tests for two reasons:
1) To personally evaluate how Superdrol affects my liver, lipids, etc., in order to determine the safety of future cycles.
2) To add additional data on this important issue for the benefit of AM and other forums.

I have outlined the testing protocol below, and I'm looking for feedback on both the schedule (i.e. timing of tests) as well as which tests are being run (i.e. any other values of interest?).

Background: The Superdrol cycle will be 3-4 weeks (still deciding on doses, will post with lab results), using RYR and liver supps during and with a 3-4 week PCT of Nolva+Clomid after.

Currently, I plan the following tests:
-Liver function panel (albumin, alkaline phosphatase, ALT, AST, bilirubin, total bilirubin, protein)
-Lipid panel (total, HDL, LDL, TG)
-Testosterone (total)

My planned schedule is as follows:
-BEFORE/BASELINE: Liver, Lipid, Test
-LAST DAY OF SD (day 21 or 28): Liver, Lipid
-LAST DAY OF PCT (~day 42-56): Liver, Lipid, Test

Have a missed anything? Also, should I run the final round of testing just as PCT finishes, or should I wait a week or two after that?

As these tests aren't free, I'd like to maximize the value of information gained without spending more than I need to.

I'm 24 y.o., 200 lbs. Of course, I will post details of myself, my dosages, my diet, my SD gains, and any side effects alongside the results of the tests.

 

[BigMattTx]

Awesome..thanks for doing this!

I look forward to it.

 

[wannaBstud]

Good deal!
Im looking forward to your results

 

[gotripped]

you might want to add Cortisol and Estradiol to the tests. And you should get Test and Free Test as well. And make sure you take your BP and heart rate during rest, and after workout ( before you start your cycle ) and then you can compare the results during cycle and 4 weeks after the cycle has ended.

 

[TeamSavage]

you might want to add Cortisol and Estradiol to the tests. And you should get Test and Free Test as well. And make sure you take your BP and heart rate during rest, and after workout ( before you start your cycle ) and then you can compare the results during cycle and 4 weeks after the cycle has ended.

Thanks for the advice. I am definitely getting Test numbers pre-cycle and then post-PCT, just to confirm that it has recovered completely. I will look into getting the Cortisol and Estradiol. My only concern with this is the cost, as getting the complete hormone profile is significantly more expensive than getting just the total Test. But if it seems worthwhile then I may spend the extra. (I am mainly concerned with the major safety issues, hence the focus on liver and lipids. With Clomid & Nolva PCT after a 3-4wk Superdrol cycle it seems like hormonal recovery should not be a problem, but I would still be interested in seeing the numbers.)

I will take your advice to monitor and record my BP and heart rate regularly.

 

[gotripped]

The reason I say cortisol and estradiol pertains to others who have freaked out that their cortisol is so high after a cycle when their cortisol or estradiol had been high before they started their cycle.
It's just a good reference point but not necessary. However, TEST seems to be quite necessary and very beneficial for peace of mind.

 

[TeamSavage]

I've decided to start my Superdrol cycle tomorrow. I received the results of my "baseline" blood tests and the results looked good:

10/17/06:

ALT 27 (reference 15-45)
AST 36 (5-35)
Bilirubin 1.0 (0.2-1.3)
Bilirubin Direct .22 (<0.3)
Protein 7.3 (6-8)
Albumin 4.7 (3-5, higher is better)
ALP 75 (30-120)

LDL 114 (near optimal, <100 is optimal)
HDL 58 (40-60, this is great)
Total 187 (<200 optimal, >240 high risk)
TG 73 (<150 normal, 200-500 high, >500 very high)
Ratio: 3.2 (great, as 3.5 is optimal and <5 is "normal")

== DOSING REGIMEN ==

I'm tentatively planning to run SD for four weeks at 10/20/20/20. If my side effects are bad I may stop after three weeks. If my sides aren't bad and my gains are starting to slow, I may increase to 30mg during the fourth week. (I'm taking Anabolic XTreme Superdrol. Also have Methyl-Drol but wanted to start with AX as a reference.)

== SUPPORT REGIMEN ==

My daily support regimen will be:
AX Perfect cycle - 4 caps
Fish Oil - 6g
Flax Oil - 3g
SesaThin - 2.5 mL (2/3 of "standard" dose)
CLA - 2g
CoQ10 - 100mg
Oatmeal (will eat every day for lipids)
I may also add 1200mg RYR.

I know there's been some discussion of SesaThin hurting gains. What's the opinion on this currently? I decided to take it at a moderate dose to avoid gaining BF during this cycle (hopefully I'll lose a few %), and also because it may help maintain healthy lipid levels.

== PCT ==

Nolva 40/30/20/20
Clomid 50/25 (150mg 1st day of PCT)
AX Retain or DS Lean XTreme
CEE 2g

== STARTING STATS ==

Weight: 205
BF: 17-21% (depending on which analyzer you believe)

== GOALS ==

Gain ~15lb LBM and significant strength, while hopefully losing 2-3% BF. (Loss of BF might be possible with my currently high BF and addition of SesaThin, but who knows?)

== DIET ==

Will post more later, but will be very clean, 300g+ protein per day spread over 5-6 meals.

== PREVIOUS PH/AAS USAGE ==

I did cycles of 4AD+19NOR, 1T/4AD transdermal, and M1T a few years back (gained 15 lbs in 3 weeks with M1T, at which point I became sick as a dog), but haven't done any recently and haven't previously used SD.

== NOTES ==

I'm not going to post a daily log, but of course I'll be tracking my weight, BF and lifts closely and will post an update every week or so.

I'll also be getting blood work immediately post-cycle and also post-PCT. Will post as available.

== QUESTIONS ==

Any opinions on:
-using SesaThin on-cycle?
-using CEE post-cycle? (Will it really help keep gains long-term, or simply provide short-term illusion of keeping gains? Lots of conflicting information.)
-using GlucoPhase XR post-workout either on-cycle or PCT?

If anybody has any suggestions on my planned dosing, support regimen, PCT, etc., I'd love to hear them.

 

[TeamSavage]

Forgot to mention, will also be taking taurine and bananas as-needed for back pumps.

 

[Basso]

Good Luck! I ate Taurine and Potasium like it was candy and still had debilitating back pumps! Most likely you will see gains slow after 3 weeks and going to 30mg won't help it. 3 weeks appears to be the optimal time frame for superdrol. The interesting thing I've seen and experienced is that if you stop the cycle at 3 weeks, the 4th week you'll continue to get stronger and make gains, if you get greedy and continue SD for 4 weeks the last week most have minimal gains at best. Just my observations

My opinion of Cycle Support from Annobolic Innovations is extremely high, in fact I'm taking it 365 now! It is so much nicer than popping 40 pills a day and covers just about everything except EFAs.

 

[Tom 185]

great thread!!

 

[Kristofer68SS]

i have a bottle of SD left. I have been reluctant to do a cycle of this. This will determine if i will.

Subscribing.

Looks to be an informative thread, keep it up please. Rep for you.

 

[TeamSavage]

Yeah, I'm already popping 40 pills a day between the SD, Fish Oil, Flax Oil, CLA, and CoQ10, so the AX Perfect Cycle is definitely worthwhile.

I handled the M1T back pumps, and personally I'll take the SD back pumps over the M1T-flu any day.

Thanks for the input on SD cycle length. I've heard conflicting reports. Many have shared your experience of gains maxing out after 3 weeks, while others who have done SD for 4-6 weeks have claimed to gain well all the way through. I'll probably just see where I am after week 3 and make a game-time decision.

In general, I usually try to err on the side of shorter cycles. But on the other hand, I read a thread where B5150 and others speculated that much of the initial SD gains may be due to increased glycogen storage, in which case the slowing of weight gain after the 2nd or 3rd week might reflect a "topping off" of glycogen storage, but not necessarily a slowing of more permanent gains of muscle tissue. If true, it might make sense to do a fourth week just to help "solidify" the gains, even if the scale isn't climbing as fast.

The thread is here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/24070-superdrol-brilliant-2-a-2.html?highlight=glycogen

Any opinions on this?

Good Luck! I ate Taurine and Potasium like it was candy and still had debilitating back pumps! Most likely you will see gains slow after 3 weeks and going to 30mg won't help it. 3 weeks appears to be the optimal time frame for superdrol. The interesting thing I've seen and experienced is that if you stop the cycle at 3 weeks, the 4th week you'll continue to get stronger and make gains, if you get greedy and continue superdrol for 4 weeks the last week most have minimal gains at best. Just my observations

My opinion of Cycle Support from Annobolic Innovations is extremely high, in fact I'm taking it 365 now! It is so much nicer than popping 40 pills a day and covers just about everything except EFAs.

 

[Basso]

Agreed, this may be true but for me after about 2.5 weeks I was ready to stop! BP, Back pumps, 0 Libido, etc etc. Not everyone experiences all that but when you do it truely sucks. I gained about 18lbs, I stopped at day 20 and after PCT I still had 12lbs gained but I lost the strength increases. The thing I like about SD is the almost instant satisfaction, I can put 5-10lbs on in a week or 2 while staying at maint cals, so for the future I like 2 weeks at 10mg to kick off a cycle.

Good luck with the cycle, I'll be watching with interest. It's amazing how differently some of these OTCs effect different people.

 

[TeamSavage]

Here's my one week update:

Starting Morning Weight: 205
Current Morning Weight: 210.5

BF: down 0.5-1%

Strength: up 5 lbs on most lifts

Sides: None, except mild back pumps after squats

Overall, I'm very impressed with Superdrol so far. I read about it requiring many days or even more than a week to kick in, but for me the gains started coming after just 2-3 days and haven't stopped. T-shirts that were a little loose a week ago are now tight around my chest and back, and I'm definitely looking a little leaner. At this rate, I can't wait to see where I'm at by the end of the cycle.

Best of all, there have been no real sides whatsoever. No fatigue, no debilitating pumps, the boys still look healthy, if anything a slight increase in libido. It's still early, but hopefully it will stay that way. (As long as I don't get the M1T-flu I will be happy.)

I increase my dose to 20 mg today, so I doubt the gains will slow anytime soon.

My diet has been approx. 3300 cal/day, consisting of about 370g carbs (mostly low-GI except PWO), 350g protein (mostly chicken, turkey, eggs, tuna, whey, cottage cheese), and 40g fat (plus another 10g from fish oil, flax, + CLA). Maintenance for me is normally around 2800-3000 cal/day (I have a pretty slow metabolism). I know I should be eating more to maximize LBM gains, but I'm set on avoiding fat gain and hopefully losing some. I'm willing to trade a couple pounds of LBM gains if that allows me to lean out more. And in any case, this intake appears to be working pretty well so far. That said, I may up my cals assuming by BF keeps dropping.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm getting a second blood test immediately post-cycle and a third post-post cycle therapy.

If anybody has any suggestions or questions, I'd love to hear them.

 

[TeamSavage]

Also, during the first couple days I was pissing constantly (like 4 times in 3 hours one night)... Probably twice the normal volume, as if my body's level of water retention was lowering. So I think it's likely that I probably dropped at least a pound of water weight as well.

 

[Big BAMA]

I am currently in the third week of a halo cycle and I recently ran into some superdrol so I grabbed it. I am following with great intrest. Thanks for the info and the details. I am also thinking of stacking with Xmass tabs. I read another thread log about it. I won't be able to think about starting the cycle till at least March-mid march. I want to make sure I give myself at least 90+ days off cycle before I start Superdrol. Keep up the post I am watching and reading.

 

[TeamSavage]

I am currently in the third week of a halo cycle...

When you say "halo" are you referring to Halodrol or Halotestin? If Halodrol, what do you think so far and how much are you taking? I'm thinking of running a 6-week Halodrol for my next cycle.

 

[Big BAMA]

Sorry about that Halodrol-50 Pills not liquid gells. I heard the new liquid gells are crap and stay away.
I like it so far I have leaned up around the waist and bulked up in the arms and shoulders and chest. I am using halodrol-50, orastan-e and novadex xt. It's not a big cycle but it IS working for me I have gained about 6-7 lbs while leaning up my midsection.
No sides, no back pumps. Feel great and am getting a great boost in strengh. I have about nine days left of the Halodrol-50 then another two weeks of Novadex xt and orastan-e.
I have more Halodrol-50 but I need something to replace the orastan-e since it's hard to come by I was thinking about Inhibit-e by serious nutrition solutions or Rebound by Anabolic Xtreme. I am still trying to see if they would be good replacements.

 

[TeamSavage]

Day 14 Update

Weight: 216 (up 11 lbs from start)
Dose: 20mg Superdrol
Lifts: Up ~10 lbs on most lifts
BF: slight drop, probably around 2 lbs of BF
Shirts: now too tight

Sides:
Back Pumps: only after squats
Libido: slightly increased
Nuts: seem fine (at most ~10% shrinkage)
Acne: none (not prone to it though)
Hair: seems fine

I've modified my support supps slightly. I'm now taking:
2 caps AX Perfect Cycle
6g Fish Oil
2g Flax Oil
2g CLA
60mg CoQ10
2.5ml SesaThin
1200mg NAC

If anybody wants a detailed breakdown of my diet or workout, just let me know.

Overall, very satisfied so far. 11 lbs in two weeks, probably 12-13 lbs when you factor in 1-2 lbs of lost BF. Decent strength increases. No real sides to speak off. If my gains continue over the next week then I'll probably do a 4th week. If they slow or stop then I'll probably stop after the 3rd week.

The only thing that's odd is that even though I've clearly leaned out a bit (and my calipers and BF monitors say I've lost about 1% BF), I've actually gained 1" around my waist. My "belly fat" certainly hasn't gotten bigger and looks like it's shrunk a little, yet my waist itself is bigger. I can only think of three possible explanations:

1) I've been hitting my abs hard lately, so maybe they've grown and pushed out my waist. (This doesn't really make sense, though, since I'm measuring at my beltline, below the abs, and not at the belly button.)

2) I've got a little belly bloat, which should hopefully go away after the cycle.

3) My eyes, calipers, and BF monitors are all deceiving me and I've actually gained fat. (A full 1" on the waist is a lot of fat, though, and it really does seem like I've leaned out.)

Anyone else experience anything like this? Anybody have an opinion the waist increase?

So far, Superdrol is the sh*t. I can understand why people talk it up so much. Hopefully my post-cycle liver and lipids won't come back in the toilet...

 

[Shyne]

Your erectors may have grown.

 

[TeamSavage]

Your erectors may have grown.

Thanks. That actually makes the most sense... don't know why I didn't think of it. I've been hitting the lower back harder than usual the past couple months.

 

[Shyne]

Thanks. That actually makes the most sense... don't know why I didn't think of it. I've been hitting the lower back harder than usual the past couple months.

Yeah, it's something most people don't think about. Most think they must have gained fat if their waist measurement's gone up.

 

[B5150]

Most get that from superdrol

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Try adding in some taurine and you will most likely be able to stop those back pumps

 

[TeamSavage]

I really haven't had any noticable back pumps except after squats. Afterwards I spend a few hours walking like I'm 90-years-old. The taurine and bananas do seem to help, though.

 

[TeamSavage]

Day 21 Update

Weight: 221 (up 16 lbs from start)
Dose: 20mg Superdrol
Lifts: up quite a bit, will post pre- and post- at day 28
BF: significant drop - at least 2-3%

Sides:
Back Pumps: only after squats
Libido: no change or slightly diminished
Nuts: still seem fine (at most ~10% shrinkage)
Acne: none (not prone to it though)
Hair: seems fine

I started taking CEE 2g/d two days ago. I think this accounts for a couple of the lbs gained.

Overall, still virtually no side effects. Honestly, I don't really feel like I am "on" anything. The only effects I notice are that the scale and my lifts keep rising like crazy. So for me at least, SD seems like the perfect compound, far superior to M1T ("full-body misery"). But we'll see what the post-cycle blood tests report...

I'm happy to report that my boys are looking big and healthy and operating at near full capacity. I neither look nor feel shutdown. Of course I will execute the proper PCT that I planned regardless.

The most significant development this week has been a dramatic increase in fat loss. In the first two weeks I definitely leaned out a little (maybe 2 lbs), but over the past week it seriously looks like I have lost another 3-4 lbs of fat. The fat around my belly and chest looks like it shrunk by half within just a couple days. The calipers also say I've lost about 3% BF since the start of the cycle. I haven't really changed my diet since the beginning of the cycle or started taking any new fat-loss supplements. I almost don't believe it and would think it's all in my head, except the visual change is just so dramatic that it can't be ignored. I'm guessing it's a combination of the SesaThin (which I just started pre-cycle), a rise in maintenance requirements due to the additional LBM, and the fact that I started the cycle with relatively high BF so it's falling off a lot easier with the Superdrol. It's also worth repeating that my diet definitely falls into the lean bulk category, just about 500-700 cals above maintenence and light on non-EFA fats, consisting of oatmeal, chicken, tuna, 1% milk, cottage cheese, whey, fruits, etc.

My plans are to continue with SD 20mg/day through week 4, and then start PCT as planned. I will be getting a second round of blood tests during the next week and will post results as soon as I have them.

 

[neverstop]

after using HCG during my last cycle, i will NEVER do a cycle again without it, i feel totally recoverd in like 5-6 days, and that was a test/tren cycle,

test and superdrol are frakin awesome combo too,

just my two thoughts: next superdrol cycle will be four week

superdrol
test prop
hcg throughout

thanks for the log bro, cant wait to watch your test recovery (libido) and liver values (two most important things for any single guy in his 20's

reps and eternal thanks!

 

[TeamSavage]

cant wait to watch your test recovery (libido) and liver values (two most important things for any single guy in his 20's

Yeah, seriously! Thanks for the tip on HCG. Never used it but I've got some on the way, and I expect to make it a staple of any future cycles.

I'd join you on the test+SD combo, but unfortunately I don't have a good source for injectables. But I'm working on it.

This Superdrol cycle has gone so well, I'm just praying my tests come back OK. It would be a shame if I was one of the lucky few to experience NO side effects from Superdrol, only to find out that it's trashing my liver and lipids.

 

[B5150]

only to find out that it's trashing my liver and lipids.

Not to rain on your parade but the lipid degradation is virtually unavoidable. HDL could drop pretty drastically and LDL can rise considerably. The liver stress I experienced was very mild to none, based solely on AST/ALT and GGT values. Lipids will rebound very quickly if predisposition is in your favor.

It will all work out just fine in the end

 

[TeamSavage]

Not to rain on your parade but the lipid degradation is virtually unavoidable. HDL could drop pretty drastically and LDL can rise considerably. The liver stress I experienced was very mild to none, based solely on AST/ALT and GGT values. Lipids will rebound very quickly if predisposition is in your favor.

No, you're not raining on my parade at all. I'm more concerned about my liver anyway. My lipids are very good off-cycle and I have no family history of heart disease, so I know a few weeks of poor lipids won't hurt me.

Anyway, good to hear that your liver stress was mild to none. Here's hoping I'm the same.

 

[TripDog]

good log savage.

 

[TeamSavage]

POST-CYCLE BLOOD TESTS

I ended my cycle on 11/17, but because I was traveling for Thanksgiving I couldn't get the blood drawn until 11/21. So these values are actually for four days into PCT.

11/21 ("Pre" from 10/19)

ALT 58 (27)
AST 41 (36)
Bilirubin 0.9 (1)
Bil. Direct 0.18 (0.22)
Protein 7.7 (7.3)
Albumin 4.7 (4.7)
ALP 82 (75)

LDL 144 (114)
HDL 33 (58)
Total 191 (187)
TG 71 (73)

This was a 4-week cycle 10/20/20/20. Liver support was comprehensive (MT, ALA, NAC, Liv.52), but it should be noted that I took nothing for cholesterol support except fish oil (which I always take) and SesaThin.

Overall, I am very pleased at these results. My cholesterol numbers certainly aren't as good as they were, but my LDL isn't astronomic and my HDL didn't disappear, so I'm happy. (They're still probably better than 50% of the country.) And my liver showed little sign of stress.

GAINS

Start weight: 205
End weight (11/17/06): 222.5
Current weight (11/27/06): 223

Keep in mind that I started taking CEE during week 4, so my ending weight is inflated by a few pounds.

PCT
Nolva 40/30/20/10
Oratropin-1, ActivaTe, Retain, CEE, SesaThin, plus liver ancilliaries.

I will post the results of my post-P.C.T. bloodwork in a few weeks.

 

[phaeton66]

Curious to see how your lipids and liver values all panned out in the end. I had a very similar experience with SD (posted elsewhere).

Also; your avatar ... it makes me laff and laff.

 

[Ichidan]

Great log, any update on post PCT bloodwork

 

[P4D2A022]

TeamSavage - what do you weigh now? how was ur vascularity??

 

[TeamSavage]

TeamSavage - what do you weigh now? how was ur vascularity??

I currently weigh 222... so didn't lose anything during P.C.T., and my strength has continued to climb (although not as much as during the cycle).

My vascularity definitely improved a little on cycle. It has diminished a little since stopping the cycle, which is to be expected. But I had a fairly high BF so it's tough to tell.

Sorry about not posting the post-P.C.T. bloodwork... was traveling when I got them. I'll try to find the results and put them up. Overall, though, they were pretty good and more-or-less the same as pre-cycle.

 

[Stupes]

Awesome log Savage - no noise - just the facts.

 

[drewsicle3210]

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