Trenbolone Notes.

[Skye]

Trenbolone Notes.

There has been a lot of threads of late regarding trenbolone (AKA fina, finaplix, tren, finaject, and by the name brand Parabolan) that would indicate that a lot of people are not doing their homework. Trenbolone is NOT a good drug for a beginner or some one that is not a dedicated weight lifter or body builder. It has a lot of side affects and can severely aggregate other side affects from other drugs. It should be used with caution even when used by the experienced. This post is not a comprehensive reference rather it’s meant to be more of a cheat sheet for people that haven’t been doing their homework. As always this post is not meant to do anything but take up bandwidth as I am nobody you should be taking advice from.

What it is.
17β-Hydroxyestra-4, 9, 11-trien-3-one. If the chemical name doesn’t mean anything to you here is the simple version: Trenbolone is a derivative of nandrolone or nandrolone like hormones (Nandrolone Decanoate would but the common version, AKA Deca, its in that same class) that has been sort of squashed in the middle so to speak to modify the properties (actually it has two additional double bonds between certain carbon atoms) that make it act a great deal differently then its parent molecule. For one nandrolone can be aromatize to estrogen or estrogen like compounds where trenbolone can not. It commonly comes in 3 esters, acetate, enanthate, and hexahydrobenzyl carbonate. The weight of trenbolone itself is 270, the esters add on to this with 60 for the acetate, 130 for the enanthate and the hexahydrobenzyl carbonate. This should in theory make for roughly the same half life for the last two and around 36 hours for the acetate. I don’t have any really good information on the half life of the enanthate or the hexahydrobenzyl carbonate but 12 days is probably a good guess (trenbolone is a little more lipophilic the testosterone so I am assuming that it doesn’t go into water as easily, but that is just a rough guess)

Effects.
It’s not called gear of the gods for nothing; it is one of the most potent steroids that is reasonable safe to use. Nice lean gains that are easy to maintain and a strong anti carbolic effect make it a ideal steroid for cutting or bulking and one of the very few drugs that can help you do both at the same time. You can stack it with almost anything but not much is really needed.

Stacking
For cutting purposes stacking “dry” steroids (ones that don’t aromatize to estrogen or the derivatives of.) is advantageous in that trenbolone has certain fat burning effects that are more prominent without estrogen but it’s not necessary. Methenolone will work well (provided you’re rich) and so will proviron as both will help maintain your libido (see side affects). Both are “dry” as they ether inhibit estrogen production or at least don’t promote it. Testosterone will work quit well as well of course. Other items include drostanolone (masteron) and boldenolone (EQ). These tend to be tertiary items however and are used mainly to modify the basic stack (usually testosterone and trenbolone).

For bulking testosterone is hard to beat with trenbolone. There really just isn’t much of a need for any additional items. If your really feel the need the just up your dosage of testosterone, as it is one of the few steroids that you can safely do that with and you will gain more bang for your buck with this basic stack then the complex ones.

You should avoid the following when running trenbolone: any nandrolone product or the derivatives of due to excessive suppression of your system as well as your libido. In addition this may greatly increase in the progestin effects (see side affects). In addition to this I would include almost all orals as they tend to stress your liver and while trenbolone is NOT liver toxic it is harsh and this should be accounted for as a whole. Your body is going to have to work harder and that includes the liver. Stanozolol (winny) should be especially avoided as it tends to be very hard on the joints and trenbolone tends to make you very strong. There is an obvious problem here that a great number of people don’t ether see or care about. The stanozolol/trenbolone stack will make you look like a god but feel like an 80 year old man as well as potentially hurt you. If you absolutely must use an oral I would stick to things like dianabol or the like for bulking. You will get big quick but there is a price.

Side effects.
This is a long list here. All the common side effects except bloating apply here and some unique ones. They include insomnia, dehydration and physiological issues. This last one is not the normal media induced scare tactics. This is a real effect of trenbolone. The effect is described somewhat vaguely, descriptions range form just being irritable to paranoid to just not feel “right” when one it. This is a real effect for many and should be taken into careful consideration when thinking about using trenbolone. As for the insomnia it varies with people and dosage but is more often then not present in some form. The dehydration is a real concern as well. This is not a joke; you can get some serous complications from being dehydrated. The remedy for this is fairly simple if not always easy to do, drink all the water you can.

The term fina **** is not a misnomer; in about 90% of people it WILL cause impotence if ran alone. This is easily avoided provided that you run a reasonable dosage of trenbolone to start with, don’t stack it with other libido killing drugs, and that you add something to the stack to help counter the effects like testosterone or proviron. Note that this is not always 100% effective, sometimes it will just cause the problem and the only solution is to abort the cycle. Note also that some case trenbolone will actually increase the libido, while not common it does happen. When this happens it is not mild ether. This just demonstrates the degree that people can react differently to certain compounds.

Trenbolone has long been suspected of causing some kidney damage. There is not at this time any evidence of trenbolone directly being hard on your kidneys. However being dehydrated IS very hard on your kidneys so I strongly suspect that the two issues are strongly related. It’s not hard to see, most people on cycle are taking excessive amounts of protein, vitamins, and other supplements all of which your kidneys have to get rid of. Combine that with being dehydrated and it’s not hard to see why people could have problems in this area. Again the remedy is simple, just drink lots of water and keep your protein and supplements within reason, most of them are unnecessary anyways.

Gynecomastia is NOT caused by trenbolone but trenbolone WILL aggravate the problem. The mechanisms that cause this are still debated but it is generally agreed that trenbolone is a progestin in its own right and tends to “set up” the conditions for developing gynecomastia. As prevention is covered exstensivley elsewhere I will just state that an ounce of prevention is worth a lot more then a pound of cure when you include cost of the surgery to remove your B****T****.

Dosages
Anywhere from 175mg to 500mg a week with 200 to 400 being the average most any reasonable person would want. Beyond 500mg a week you can expect the sides to increase drastically. Really 25mg a day for a moderate size man beginning on trenbolone is more then enough with 50mg a day for an experienced user. Most of the horror stories one hears is usually the result of misuse rather then use of trenbolone. Running at the dosages above the side will be minimal and gains quite nice. Again if you really need more for some reason then just increase the amount of testosterone in your cycle. That is far safer then running more trenbolone.

[bpmartyr]

Good post Skye, thanks.

Tren is not for me,. .... yet.

If I ever do try it I will use the lower end of the dosing scale as you have very wisely recommended.

Reps for you, but NO SOUP!

[idunk42]

Very good post indeed!

[doom3q]

damn good post skye, I'd give you more reps if I could.

[jmh80]

Again I say - Skye is sorta like Moses coming down from the mount with his commandments.

Skye watches this board from atop a mountain (I picture him with some big long curly white beard) - once he sees the God of Stupidity reigning around AM (made worse by his minion Jayhawk), he decides that it's time to educate the heathen masses.

I've been waiting for one of these threads for the better part of 6 months or so.
So - let me say it for Skye since he didn't:
"Stupid posters of AM - consider yourselves extremely lucky to have witnessed the shining splendor that is a Skye thread.
Now - go feast upon the orangatanges, fruit bats, slothes, and breakfast cereals.
Amen."

[bpmartyr]

Now - go feast upon the orangatanges, fruit bats, slothes, and breakfast cereals.
Amen."

Brother Maynard?

And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu...

[glenihan]

fantastic post .. perfectly described skye! ... he really hit the nail on the head here

[xxtruxx1]

Definitely a great post.

[ManBeast]

STICKY!!! We need more threads like this for some other compounds like Test, Winny, Bold/EQ, Nandralone(decca, phenyl, etc.), and dbol. I'd do it, but I would probably just summarize stuff out of Anabolics 2004

ManBeast

[Rodja]

Outstanding post, Skye. I know a lot of people that have ran tren, but I do not hold their opinions in very high regard. The consensus among them is that it is a great drug, but not worth the sides. Then again, some of these people have never even heard the words "post-cycle therapy."

[Ubiquitous]

Again I say - Skye is sorta like Moses coming down from the mount with his commandments.

Skye watches this board from atop a mountain (I picture him with some big long curly white beard) - once he sees the God of Stupidity reigning around AM (made worse by his minion Jayhawk), he decides that it's time to educate the heathen masses.

Skye is Norse, so it's more like Odin channeling through him. Only if Odin was interested in molecular chemistry and endocrinology.

[David Dunn]

STICKY!!! We need more threads like this for some other compounds like Test, Winny, Bold/EQ, Nandralone(decca, phenyl, etc.), and dbol. I'd do it, but I would probably just summarize stuff out of Anabolics 2004

ManBeast

Skye, here is a blue print. Fill in the blanks.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/search-1035961.html

Book mark it. If you do fill in a complete user guide I would be glad to sick them.

[ManBeast]

B... you quoted me and directed it at Skye? I feel honored!

ManBeast

[CHAPS]

Good post! I've seen on other boards guys using it for their first cycles!

[ManBeast]

I used it in my first cycle, at a very low dose combined with a low (but definitely above HRT) level of test. I think the problem with a lot of people on their first cycle is that they want to "blow up" right away. I think that slow(er) solid gains are much easier to keep, and easier for your body to get used to.

ManBeast

[KellysGymCarver]

This is such a great post. I've been bouncing around other boards looking for something that is not hyped too deep in Chemistry 101! This is a perfect read. Thanks a lot SKYE, I've made up my mind on whether to try Tren or not..KGC

[jmh80]

No Ubi - Skye is clearly Brother Maynard reading from the Book of Armaments Chapter 2, vs. 9 to 27.

2 points for BP!!!
Good show ole' chap!

[motiv8er]

Trenbolone Notes.

There has been a lot of threads of late regarding trenbolone (AKA fina, finaplix, tren, finaject, and by the name brand Parabolan) that would indicate that a lot of people are not doing their homework. Trenbolone is NOT a good drug for a beginner or some one that is not a dedicated weight lifter or body builder. It has a lot of side affects and can severely aggregate other side affects from other drugs. It should be used with caution even when used by the experienced. This post is not a comprehensive reference rather it’s meant to be more of a cheat sheet for people that haven’t been doing their homework. As always this post is not meant to do anything but take up bandwidth as I am nobody you should be taking advice from.

What it is.
17β-Hydroxyestra-4, 9, 11-trien-3-one. If the chemical name doesn’t mean anything to you here is the simple version: Trenbolone is a derivative of nandrolone or nandrolone like hormones (Nandrolone Decanoate would but the common version, AKA Deca, its in that same class) that has been sort of squashed in the middle so to speak to modify the properties (actually it has two additional double bonds between certain carbon atoms) that make it act a great deal differently then its parent molecule. For one nandrolone can be aromatize to estrogen or estrogen like compounds where trenbolone can not. It commonly comes in 3 esters, acetate, enanthate, and hexahydrobenzyl carbonate. The weight of trenbolone itself is 270, the esters add on to this with 60 for the acetate, 130 for the enanthate and the hexahydrobenzyl carbonate. This should in theory make for roughly the same half life for the last two and around 36 hours for the acetate. I don’t have any really good information on the half life of the enanthate or the hexahydrobenzyl carbonate but 12 days is probably a good guess (trenbolone is a little more lipophilic the testosterone so I am assuming that it doesn’t go into water as easily, but that is just a rough guess)

Effects.
It’s not called gear of the gods for nothing; it is one of the most potent steroids that is reasonable safe to use. Nice lean gains that are easy to maintain and a strong anti carbolic effect make it a ideal steroid for cutting or bulking and one of the very few drugs that can help you do both at the same time. You can stack it with almost anything but not much is really needed.

Stacking
For cutting purposes stacking “dry” steroids (ones that don’t aromatize to estrogen or the derivatives of.) is advantageous in that trenbolone has certain fat burning effects that are more prominent without estrogen but it’s not necessary. Methenolone will work well (provided you’re rich) and so will proviron as both will help maintain your libido (see side affects). Both are “dry” as they ether inhibit estrogen production or at least don’t promote it. Testosterone will work quit well as well of course. Other items include drostanolone (masteron) and boldenolone (EQ). These tend to be tertiary items however and are used mainly to modify the basic stack (usually testosterone and trenbolone).

For bulking testosterone is hard to beat with trenbolone. There really just isn’t much of a need for any additional items. If your really feel the need the just up your dosage of testosterone, as it is one of the few steroids that you can safely do that with and you will gain more bang for your buck with this basic stack then the complex ones.

You should avoid the following when running trenbolone: any nandrolone product or the derivatives of due to excessive suppression of your system as well as your libido. In addition this may greatly increase in the progestin effects (see side affects). In addition to this I would include almost all orals as they tend to stress your liver and while trenbolone is NOT liver toxic it is harsh and this should be accounted for as a whole. Your body is going to have to work harder and that includes the liver. Stanozolol (winny) should be especially avoided as it tends to be very hard on the joints and trenbolone tends to make you very strong. There is an obvious problem here that a great number of people don’t ether see or care about. The stanozolol/trenbolone stack will make you look like a god but feel like an 80 year old man as well as potentially hurt you. If you absolutely must use an oral I would stick to things like dianabol or the like for bulking. You will get big quick but there is a price.

Side effects.
This is a long list here. All the common side effects except bloating apply here and some unique ones. They include insomnia, dehydration and physiological issues. This last one is not the normal media induced scare tactics. This is a real effect of trenbolone. The effect is described somewhat vaguely, descriptions range form just being irritable to paranoid to just not feel “right” when one it. This is a real effect for many and should be taken into careful consideration when thinking about using trenbolone. As for the insomnia it varies with people and dosage but is more often then not present in some form. The dehydration is a real concern as well. This is not a joke; you can get some serous complications from being dehydrated. The remedy for this is fairly simple if not always easy to do, drink all the water you can.

The term fina **** is not a misnomer; in about 90% of people it WILL cause impotence if ran alone. This is easily avoided provided that you run a reasonable dosage of trenbolone to start with, don’t stack it with other libido killing drugs, and that you add something to the stack to help counter the effects like testosterone or proviron. Note that this is not always 100% effective, sometimes it will just cause the problem and the only solution is to abort the cycle. Note also that some case trenbolone will actually increase the libido, while not common it does happen. When this happens it is not mild ether. This just demonstrates the degree that people can react differently to certain compounds.

Trenbolone has long been suspected of causing some kidney damage. There is not at this time any evidence of trenbolone directly being hard on your kidneys. However being dehydrated IS very hard on your kidneys so I strongly suspect that the two issues are strongly related. It’s not hard to see, most people on cycle are taking excessive amounts of protein, vitamins, and other supplements all of which your kidneys have to get rid of. Combine that with being dehydrated and it’s not hard to see why people could have problems in this area. Again the remedy is simple, just drink lots of water and keep your protein and supplements within reason, most of them are unnecessary anyways.

Gynecomastia is NOT caused by trenbolone but trenbolone WILL aggravate the problem. The mechanisms that cause this are still debated but it is generally agreed that trenbolone is a progestin in its own right and tends to “set up” the conditions for developing gynecomastia. As prevention is covered exstensivley elsewhere I will just state that an ounce of prevention is worth a lot more then a pound of cure when you include cost of the surgery to remove your B****T****.

Dosages
Anywhere from 175mg to 500mg a week with 200 to 400 being the average most any reasonable person would want. Beyond 500mg a week you can expect the sides to increase drastically. Really 25mg a day for a moderate size man beginning on trenbolone is more then enough with 50mg a day for an experienced user. Most of the horror stories one hears is usually the result of misuse rather then use of trenbolone. Running at the dosages above the side will be minimal and gains quite nice. Again if you really need more for some reason then just increase the amount of testosterone in your cycle. That is far safer then running more trenbolone.

So I can drink tren, right?





LOL SKYE, you are the man.

[Skye]

Skye, here is a blue print. Fill in the blanks.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/search-1035961.html

Book mark it. If you do fill in a complete user guide I would be glad to sick them.

Thanks guys, been biz.

B5150 that link doesn't work for me. can you fix it and I will look at it as soon as I can get some sleep

[Nullifidian]

Awesome post!

I would like to stress the fact that tren seems to amplify sides of others greatly. For me in particular acne was greatly amplified to the point that I got a rare version of acne called "acne conglobata." This form of acne is so severe it is permanently disfiguring. Thankfully I only wound up with a blotch or two on my face, but my entire chest, my whole back (upper, middle, and lower), my traps, and my whole shoulders are all now permamently and prominantly scarred. This type of acne has a tendancy to form large cysts that bleed. I must wear tshirts underneath clothing even in summer because I bleed all the time from these cysts.


To top things off, I felt like absolute crap on the stuff. Things that I normally enjoy or find soothing I found annoying instead. For example, normally whenever I'm down, if one thing can cheer me up it's my cat, Ninja. On Tren, I found her extremely annoying instead. We're talking about the nicest cat in the world here and I found her annoying. A cat that tends to act like a cross between a monkey and a dog (super friendly, likes to play, and likes to show off by doing acrobatics), and I found her annoying. That disturbed me greatly.

Yes it built muscle, even on a pretty intense caloric deficit. So for that it cannot be beaten. Even still I can tell you all flat out I'll never touch the stuff again.


If you do decide to use Tren, here are a couple things I'd make sure of:

1) If you are not an extremely even tempered person, don't use it.
2) You must keep in mind at all times that if you feel angry or irritated it is the Tren and you must NOT let it affect your actions.
3) If you start getting acne that is more severe that usual (e.g. you get a cyst), STOP YOUR CYCLE IMMEDIATELY. This kind of severe acne is not preventable by known means and cannot be cured by predictably by known means. Additionally, it has a tendancy to stay with you for many years afterwards even after you stop any and all AAS (this is mostly because this form of acne actually digs deep tunnels under your skin for more to breed in).
4) if you start getting into verbal arguments more and more frequently and you start having urges to get violent or strike out, STOP YOUR CYCLE IMMEDIATELY. These don't go away and they just get worse on Tren.

Thankfully I'm an even tempered person and I tend to be good and keeping my emotions under control. Even still I walked around all day feeling like I wanted to tear people's heads off. It's an awful feeling and to say it puts you in a bad mood is redundant. It pretty much is the very definition of a bad mood.