comparing older PH's to new PH's..?
- 09-16-2006, 11:53 PM
comparing older PH's to new PH's..?
So lately I have been thinking about some of my younger working out days a few years ago, and the supps i was taking back then and that sort of thing.
And I am no noob when it comes to PH's, not by a long shot, i've done quite a few cycles. Yet to this day, my absolute most successful cycle, was an 8 week of trans 1-test. I saw amazing results from that, my body completely changed within those 8 weeks. Now whether that was because being so undeveloped 3 or so years ago, it wasn't all that hard to get those type of gains like that, or whether 1-test really was just the best PH i've ever used.
So i'm wondering for some of you guys that have been around the game a while here, whether the PH's since then that have come out (SD,M1T,PP,mega-trn...etc) have given you all better results, or not as good as when we were first introduced to the original PH's such as 1AD, 1-test trans, 4AD and all those.
What do you guys think?
- 09-17-2006, 09:20 PM
Never realy messed with any of the oldskool ph's, but my own experience with M1t, and Superdrol were very good. Great gains in size and strength with M1t, realy just strength and a little mass with the Drol. I swelled up about 15 pnds in 4 weeks with M1t and kept about 12 of it. obvoiusly did pct to avoid gyno and other sides. Never tried the old stuff because of all the bad things I heard( lots of sides with little gains) The risk factor with taking M1t is definatley there as far as the sides, but it is nothing short of exceptonal when gaining size and strength. M1t is a steroid not a ph.
09-17-2006, 10:32 PM
i WISH i could still get 19-nor-diol and 4-ad. nonmethylated, fast acting, strong. good stuff. nothing really compares nowadays in terms of limited health detriment. perhaps M-TRN, but that doesnt do ANYTHING for me. 1-ad was also super strong and not all that unhealthy, compared to PP, SD, etc.
the more i think about it, the less i want to incorporate orals into my cycles.
09-17-2006, 10:37 PM
Superdrol was far superior to 1AD/4AD stack... I've kept more gains cutting w/ superdrol than I did bulking with 1AD/4AD
09-18-2006, 03:29 PM
09-18-2006, 04:00 PM
I think there is a big "Superdrol Scare" associated with its sides. I just finished week 2 of my cycle with practically zero sides, aside from some back pumps at times and increased deep sleep. Gained 10 pounds as of day 12 with no noticeable BF gain. I preloaded cycle support and am taking it throughout FYI.
09-18-2006, 04:31 PM
That is anecdotal and not the real sides that are of a concern.Originally Posted by MattHines
Unless you have done bloodwork that includes lipids and liver you have no way of knowing what the real sides are like and whether or not and to what degree you have had them.
There is a "Superdrol Scare" for the ignorant. When you are ignorant to the real sides it seems like scare tactics to some. Superdrol is very powerful with the potential for great negative side...believe it or not
09-18-2006, 04:47 PM
SD destroyed me! I did a few cycles of Mag10 and experienced no sides and made good gains in strength and a little size. I prefer the slow gain/no side route, SD was explosive but the price was to high for me.
09-18-2006, 11:09 PM
I'm 42 and done most of the orals, so here is my experience.
There is NO oral that come even close to testosterone and that includes transdermal test - a cleaner and safer way to go and substantially less sides and greater gains that are kept.
As this thread is about orals, with that proviso I'll go through my experiences.
Winstrol: One of the best for hardness, strength, striations and lower on sides. I found kept gains were quite good for an oral which is more reputed for strength than size. I put on 5 lbs in the first 2 weeks alone and kept it on.
19 nor and M1t Stack: 3 week cycle - 7lb gain - kept almost all of it. No noticeable sides except a raise in BP to 140/90 and back down to 120/80 in one week.
M1T alone: Well apart from the horror stories, I love it and the gains were good, better when stacked though.
Superdrol: Done it 4 times and it was hell each time - very rapid loss of libido and it takes a while to come back too, back pains, high BP and gains not kept that well. Overrated and for me the most injurous to health of ANY oral I have tried.
4ad / 1,4 andro, 5ad, all the Nors: Pretty good and pretty clean on my body - I miss these orals more than any of the others for that reason. The gains are not steroid like but are there and easily retained. Of these 1,4 really rocked.
The two main problems with the orals - and that includes ALL todays new ones - is bioavailability and liver issues. Not far behind are lipid and BP issues - the amount of complementary supps an oral user needs in their arsenal to be really safe makes a steroid cycle seem cheap!
09-18-2006, 11:12 PM
The problems that I would be more concerned about and ones you won't find anytime soon are long term, years ahead side effects. A lot of these mega-dose kitchen sink-itis users are young and in good shape. Wait a few years. I've seen old Airborne soldiers that would do **** that would make the average person shudder in pain and they would keep on moving. Look at them 20 years later though.
09-19-2006, 01:37 AM
I agree, I miss the old 19 Nor/4AD trans stack. Add 1-Test and ferschizzle, those were some nice gains.
M1T I won't touch ever again. There are easier ways to gain 7-10 pounds without having to feel like hell. Same with Superdrol..it was probably the worst cycle I've ever attempted and I seriously went crazy for a few days. Apparently, I don't respond well to progestins.
Newer orals like Hdrol and PP are really nice. Sides are way lower, gains are clean, recovery is much much easier than trying to recover from M1T or SD.
09-19-2006, 01:55 AM
09-19-2006, 02:58 AM
Good Post J. I think this is try but for some people you only live once.I think playing with hormones leaves you more vulnerable to very low test levels when you age and possibly needing TRT. which isnt that badOriginally Posted by Jayhawkk
09-19-2006, 02:58 AM
MD was so mild, you could take it and forget that you were "on cycle". It was almost like the pump you get from the first few days on ephedrine, but other than that, I only gained a pound from it at most.
09-19-2006, 03:52 AM
09-19-2006, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by pistonpump
This thread reminded me of two excellent posts on orals in a SD thread from ages ago - I still think they are relevant:
Phereplex + Superdrol...
Been there, done that....
Did anybody else's libido bottom out, after the cycle?
After that cycle, I felt like hell, but I don't want to blame it all on the supplements. I think I might have been bitten by a spider during the last week of the cycle, and that may have ruined it for me.
As a general comment.... I've found orals to be pretty nasty in general. Yes, they can be very effective, but I can't run them for very long without feeling like c r a p anymore. I'd much rather run those 'pain free orals' for 10 weeks, and walk away not feeling like my liver is totally fried.
If you've got the resources, base your cycle on test. Add other components as necessary. Methyls should be a last resort.
On another note... Steer clear of any anabolic steroids products, unless you can honestly say yes to all of the following:
1. My diet is top notch.
2. My training is top notch.
3. I'm over 25, and I've been training and dieting properly for a number of years. I've plateaued, and am looking for more... I've done my research, and understand the tradeoffs of taking anabolic steroids.
Phereplex and Superdrol are not candy. They're serious products, with both positive and negative effects.
Anyhow... do your research and make your decision, and get some blood work done.
09-11-2006, 08:50 AM
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I agree with you Tinytoad - unfortunately it took me nearly a year and 3 cycles to come to my senses that the stuff generates temporary gains and beats the #@&%(* out of your liver. Yes it is cheap, but the synthentics just are rough - hypothetically, of course, Testosterone Enanthate &
Testosterone Cypionate are better if you are good with getting blood tests and don't abuse it (1000+ ccs a week to me, I would guess it too high). For any of this stuff, if you do not know how to stop the cycle with post cycle therapy - you will suffer depression, fat gain, and loss of libido, and more - simply because when you artificially bring it up your natural supply shuts down. Kind of like flying straight up in an air plane - when you are done it heads for the ground - and you better get the engine restarted before you get to the groung. HCG and supplements can make for a smoother restart - if you are not guided through this - many of the supplements over the counter just do not seem to be enough to keep your test leves above 500 (total free test) - mine has dropped to 29 - makes you want to cry and pick out a dress with pretty flowers on it. Natural is in the 500-1200 range and not bad. You are better served with good intensity in the gym, a great clean diet and good sleep/recovery. The if you keep changing up your workouts you should grow. When you start pushing Test levels - you need to know what you are doing. Sorry if I make some folks angry - but I just think Tinytoad is speaking with some real pearls of wisdom here - I have experienced enough to see how it can go right & how it can go wrong."
09-19-2006, 11:40 AM
From my perspective, the big differences with the newer compared to the older are in relation to risks and rewards. Some of the newer type products do present bigger gains but with them comes a higher inclination of risks. If one is comfortable with such a curve then the newer ones may be better. However, if one prefers lesser side effects with milder gains then the older ones are probably better. So to a degree, it will vary depending on where an individual's preference lies in regards to risk/reward.
Also, I think we should note that may of the originals were precursors, where as the newer ones are actual actives.
09-19-2006, 11:54 AM
The last wave of pre-ban PH/PS were, in my opinion, much better than the current batch. Although there are some good choices, they are all orals and most have a tendency to use more than one at a time. Pre-ban, however, featured transdermal hormones that could be used in conjunction with the orals and not have as much risk on the liver.
That being said, if I had a choice of old or new, I would take the old because there were more options that could be used in different manners. Not to mention, 1-test was an incredible hormone.
09-19-2006, 12:58 PM
09-19-2006, 01:19 PM
I think he means the old, non-methylated stuff like 4AD,19 Nor, 1,4,ADD. Those were pretty low risk in terms of cardio and liver damage.
It seemed to go from that stage straight to the ultra potent methyls like M1T and SD which a lot of people did not and continue to not take as seriously as they should.
Now the orals seem a little more refined and less harsh. PP or Halo are pretty nice IMO and can put on some quality gains without making you feel like you have the flu. They CAN still mess up your lipids and that's what makes me miss the non-methyl era. The market and politics are such that I do not think we will ever see non-methylated bulk powders for transdermals ever again.
09-19-2006, 01:34 PM
I am on Day 16 of my SD cycle. I preloaded Cycle Support, and have taken 2 doses per day. Perhaps this is making the biggest difference because I have not experienced any of the sides except ridiculous mass gains.
My libido is up, no BP issues, slight back pains the day after back workout, increased sleep that is deeper with vivid dreams, no acne. It has been great thus far. Perhaps my body just responds well to it but I'm loving it.
Other than that, I have only tried some of the weaker new compounds and I would rather be on something that is powerful enough for me to get the "on cycle" feeling and gain big.
09-19-2006, 03:28 PM
I was also talking about how there were other delivery options other than 17 alpha hormones. I know that most don't want to slop on the TD mix, but it was an easier method that was more effective than non-methyl and without the same risks as methyls. Of course, there is always exceptions e.g M1T, but MD, MOHN, and even M 1,4 were not nearly as risky as SD.Originally Posted by bioman
09-19-2006, 03:31 PM
09-19-2006, 03:39 PM
From what ive read, MOHN, MD and M1,4 were all very weak and could not yeild near the gains that SD can. SD is comparable to M1T in gains and when you take that into consideration, the sides are relatively low.Originally Posted by Rodja
I dont know if I'm just lucky but I just started week 3 with practically NO SIDES at all. Now, my liver and cholesterol values are surely out of whack but no negative changes that can be anecdotally observed other than gaining 10 pounds of mass.
I dont know if people used too high of dosages, not enough support supps or what but I'm using Cycle Support which covers all the bases and I started at 10mg for the first week. So far, so gooodddd
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