My 2nd cycle and still almost no gains?
- 09-12-2006, 04:27 PM
My 2nd cycle and still almost no gains?
Hi guys, I'm a total noob here and looking for some help/insight on what I'm doing wrong. I'm towards the very end of my 2nd cycle of Sust 250 (500 mg's a week) and Deca (400 mg's a week) for 10 weeks. (Clomid and Nolvadex stacked in appropriately) I did my first cycle about 4 years ago and I did not gain a single pound of muscle. I suspect that maybe the stuff I bought was fake? Well I'm almost done with my 2nd cycle, same as above, and I only gained about 5 pounds....and I know some of that was a tiny bit of fat around the waist. I know this second cycle gear had to be 100% legit. I did my homework and know what to look for in a fake and this stuff was good.
Here are my stats: 28 years old, 6'0" 205 lbs. During the cycle, I would consume 300-400 grams of protein a day. I would change my routine to do heavy weights and work each muscle group twice a week. I definitely got plenty of rest each night. But I don't have any good gains for the second time! WTF!? In the past I've tried countless OTC supplements and whatnot and none of that worked either.
What am I doing wrong, or what is wrong with my body? And can anyone recommend a good OTC stack that will really help me build muscle? I think I am just frustrated with AS of all things not helping me grow at all.
- 09-12-2006, 04:33 PM
if its real........then it comes down to diet, diet, diet......not only protein.....complex carbs, fiber, water, vitamins, minerals, etc.
But i cant imagine 300+ grams of protein and no gains...
how was your strength gains?
OTC i would say oxodrol...but everyone is different
otherwise, I would pick up some enanthate and run it for 10-12 weeks and perfect your diet
- 09-12-2006, 04:36 PM
How many calories are you getting in per day? If you are eating above maintenance level you should put on weight regardless if you are on gear or not.
09-12-2006, 04:39 PM
I know, this is crazy. I take a decent multi-vitamin (2x the normal amount) in the morning and before I go to bed. I would also get a healthy amount of carbs and fiber every day. I also got way more than enough of amino acids.Originally Posted by Tom 185
Has anyone ever heard of receptors not responding? I'm out of ideas.
09-12-2006, 04:42 PM
overall calorie intake and breakdown please. and your workout schedule.
09-12-2006, 04:53 PM
I'd be at least 2,500 per day. For the most part, here is a typical eating day for me:Originally Posted by Kam
Meal 1: Protein shake and scrambled eggs
Meal 2: snack (fruit or vegetables)
Meal 3: big lunch (sandwich with tons of meat, more fruit, chips, some sweets but not much, etc)
Meal 4: steak or chicken dinner with beef fried rice and soup
Meal 5: Protein shake before bed
Here is a layout of my workout routine:
Monday: Chest, heavy weights
Tuesday: Bi's and Tri's, heavy weights
Wednesday: Shoulders and back, heavy weights
Thursday: cardio and abs
Friday: cardio impact directly followed by working all muscle groups, lower weight but muscles taken to failure
09-12-2006, 04:57 PM
dude at 6 feet and 205lbs. u need way more than 2500 calories to bulk up. try upping to like 4000 calories and come back in a month and say how much weight you have gained
09-12-2006, 05:04 PM
I am at 190 (now) at 10% bf and 6'0" and I probably eat about 3000 calories a day to maintain the mass I have and then to make up for the hard workouts I do Plus a few extra calories to put on the mass. Remember you have to eat more than what you spend. A big lunch in the middle of the day once is not going to be enough. Plus fruit for a meal? No good. Plus you're eating a protein shake before bed which is good but if you have a hard time gaining mass then you need to throw in some OATs with your protein shake. When eating breakfast you need to throw in things like Whole wheat toast some peanut butter and bacon. I know it's fatty but get some turkey bacon if you're that worried about it. (it's a bulk cycle right? it's not like it's a f*cking brownie)Originally Posted by Kegger
Also find a basal metabolic rate calculator. go to Google and do a search. you'll be able to find one. Hell I'll help you now. At 205 pounds to maintain your mass you should eat 2057.1 calories a day. Now think about how much you're probably going to burn on a workout? It'll probably be alot so shoot for ATLEAST 3500 calories a day bulk (note even at this small amount you'll probably just gain alot of strength eat until you're full) . Bagels, Oats, Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Chicken, Steak, Turkey, Eggs, Bacon, Protein Shakes, Brocolli, Asparagus, Green Beans, Cheese eat it up. Peanut Butter
09-12-2006, 05:08 PM
2500 calories? You're on a cutting diet.
09-12-2006, 05:09 PM
09-12-2006, 05:12 PM
So is that my main problem? Not eating enough calories? Looking at the amount and type of food I eat now, amount of protein, workout routine, and types and amounts of AS, I just can't believe I'm almost the same size as when I started.....its so frustrating for the second time. Especially when you work as hard as I do and take it as serious as a heart attack. I've definitely got a bit stronger, which is nice, but my end goal was to bulk up. I only have a couple weeks left on my cycle but I'll start eating a lot more.
09-12-2006, 05:16 PM
I am currently in the last part of my diet, I'm 200lbs right now 6 weeks out from my show at 6.3% bf and I take in 2600 to 2800 per day in kcals just to open my eyes. Other than cycling my carbs (hence lower kcals per day) I stay close to the numbers above....you gots to EAT man. Your just wasting the juice...eat to be big. Not that everyone will agree with this but a certain National Heavy weight told me once "don't be afraid to get fat in the off season" So screw the 6-pack and work on the 20 inch arms. Now take that with a grain of salt. Eat, but eat right.
Everyones got a sixpack, but most of them are behind the display counter.
09-12-2006, 05:18 PM
Actually, I'm pleased to see your post. Steroids are not magic. All the gear in the world won't make you grow unless you eat right.
Work on your diet, surely things will improve.
09-12-2006, 05:18 PM
Here I'll post what I eat in a typical bulking day.
Meal 1 5 AM : Bowl of Oatmeal 1 Bagel 5 Pieces of Bacon 2 Pieces of Toast and Peanut Butter (about 1000 calories)
Meal 2 8 AM : Grabbin another Bagel with Natural Peanut Butter
Meal 3 : 10 AM : 6 Eggs, Bacon, 2 Pieces of Toast
Meal 4 : 2 Bananas, 1/4 of a whole watermelon, 20 strawberries (I like the natural sugar and emptying out my stomach slight before I work out)
Meal 5 : Whole Wheat Pasta with Beef and a sweet potato
Meal 6 : Some brown rice and a chicken breast
Meal 7 : Protein Shake with Milk
BED 8 hours atleast. I like to go to bed early sometimes and get 12 (if possible)
09-12-2006, 06:46 PM
Dern you Gotripped...
Didn't you read that I was dieting. What I would not give for BACON slathered with peanut butter on the Devil's white bread. I like that diet though....1000 cals in the morning...nuthin beats starting your day like that. Ahh can't wait till November 1st. Time to get fat again.
09-12-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by drumirvin
I forgot to mention honey
09-13-2006, 05:59 AM
on my first cycle i was loosing wieght on 3500 calories/day .
09-13-2006, 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by Mess
One day I spilled something on my clothes and it ate a hole through them.
09-13-2006, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by Kegger
Im only 190lbs at 6feet and 2500 cals would be good for cutting for me. Try adding atleast 500-1000 extra cals in there. Meal 1 needs some carbs and I know for myself my body loves low GI carbs in the morning. Meal 2 perhaps add some protein to that. Meal 5 before not long before bed try a slow digesting protein instead of a shake, eat cottage cheese then since it slowly digested and you will have a protein supply to aid with repair while you sleep. I donít respond to most OTC supps either but I do respond to food
09-13-2006, 06:35 AM
meal 1 definatly needs some carbs as rivet stated. Try throwing in a whole grain bagel in with your breakfast. Meal 2 needs to be a meal and not a snack. If you alter these two off the bat, I bet you'll start seeing a turn around on gaining weight.
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE STRONGEST ON THE MARKET
09-13-2006, 06:56 AM
Strange. He is 205lbs and even with 2500calories per day he did put fat on his midsection.
09-13-2006, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the replies everyone. Now I know what my problem is. But I've only got 2 weeks left on my cycle. And it will be quite a while before I get my hands on some gear again. Can anyone recommend a good OTC supplement to help in my quest? I know its totally off the subject but once I set a goal for myself, I'm relentless on achieving it.
09-13-2006, 10:11 AM
are you an amputee? legs?Originally Posted by Kegger
and yes, eat more. i'd guess 3500-4000 cals is what you need.
09-13-2006, 10:36 AM
haha, I knew somebody would catch that. I grew up wrestling so I developed pretty large legs to begin with. I do work them in my cardio routine on Thursday. Plus I train in mixed-martial arts on Tuesday and Thursday so my legs get plenty of work...believe me.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
09-13-2006, 11:55 AM
I diet to lose weight on 2800-3000 cal. You gain weight from food that is wha I have been telling people for years. If you are not gaining then you are not eating enough. Once the gains stop you have to up your calorie count again. And where is your leg training at by the way, I missed that. You will gain more muscle from squatting,pressing etc.then you will from any other lifts.
09-13-2006, 12:51 PM
Your legs get a lot of cardio work, however it seems as they lack heavy resistance training. How do you expect to put on weight if you're not killing your largest muscle group with heavy-ass weights?Originally Posted by Kegger
You won't get very far mass-wise with all that endurance work on your legs while neglecting heavy resistance work.
09-13-2006, 01:19 PM
You need to train legs they are way too big of a muscle group to ignore.
09-13-2006, 01:47 PM
Working my legs with heavy weights was a problem for me. Because of the mma training on Tuesday and Thursday, plus a cardio workout on Thursday....I tried doing legs on a different day. It just felt like my legs were not given enough time to rebuild themselves and I was overworking them. I really struggled just to keep a guy in my guard when I sparred. So I cut out doing heavy weights with my legs and I immediately saw a difference in my strength/endurance/flexibility/ and explosiveness when I spar.
09-13-2006, 01:59 PM
it sounds like you are very active .. you definitely need to eat a lot more
09-13-2006, 01:59 PM
I hear you, however you have to realize that by doing so, you are sacrificing optimal effectiveness of your cycle.Originally Posted by Kegger
You're doing some high endurance work with your MMA training which as a result, is making you lack in resistance work in your legs, coupled with not taking in enough CLEAN cals = you not gaining effectively and optimally on your cycle. That's the jist of it IMO - if you want size, up your CLEAN cals like the other boys said, plus possibly cut down on the cardio while your "ON" cycle to ensure you kill your legs as well. Once your cycle is over, switch to maintenance cals or just above maintenance cals and kick up the cardio again.
Unfortunately, it's very hard and not very efficient to do everything at once.
09-13-2006, 02:18 PM
hmmm, sounds like I'll just have to cut out my training while on a cycle. oh well.
09-14-2006, 07:51 AM
Ya can't do both. And ronnie coleman ain't a ballerina on his off-days for a reason.
09-15-2006, 11:22 PM
if your gear is real, you should have gained several pounds from the Sust, regardless of diet.Originally Posted by Kegger
Also, you should have gotten significantly stronger on this stack even with your low cal diet. Was that the case?
09-18-2006, 10:48 AM
yeah, I definitely got a bit stronger for sure. I weighed myself today and I weighed 208 lbs. When I started my cycle, I was 201 lbs. So thats a gain of 7 pounds but I noticed my waist got a tiny bit bigger. I took the advice of everyone that responded, and I've been eating more, since then, I gained an additional 3 pounds that took me from 205 to 208.Originally Posted by lifthardheavy
09-18-2006, 10:58 AM
My first thought was fake gear. Because who could possibly be using steroids and know nothing about diet?? That is beginner **** seriously. cant believe this.
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