Is 1,4-Diol for mass or cuts?

[Jeff Rippe]

I've read a lot about 1,4-AD but there seems to be some confusion.  It supposedly stimulates the appetite but then is claimed to produce "lean, hard muscle with increased vascularity" which sounds more like a cutting cycle.

Wouldn't something that stimulates the appetite be better for mass gains?  What is 1,4-AD best used for, mass or cuts?

 

[destro19]

Its best for cuts if your able to controll your apetite.  If you wanna gain mass just eat more.  I would think its a waste of money to use it for bulking.

 

[Iron Warrior]

If you want to use it for cutting but are worried about the appetite than you may want to use an ECA product along with it to offset the appetite factor

 

[curt2go]

1,4 will help in a mass cycle. Not only will it increase your appetite but it also put more blood to your muslces hence this is why you get vascular but when you get more blood to the muscles the better. It can be used for both.. I would say for cutting keep it to 400mg/day max or the appetite will get out of hand and anything above that for bulking... Hope that helps.. talk to ya

 

[DreamWeaver]

I did 600 to 900 a day with no real appetite increase but I was eating a ton of vegtables every day so maybe that kept me full. I think if you know how to diet it shoiuldn't bother you.

 

[CableMan67]

If I want to use 400mg a day, is it ok to split it into morning and afternoon doses or all at the same time?

What's the best time to take it?

Thanks.

 

[curt2go]

Spread it out in to at least 2 doses. This will keep the blood levels semi constant. It peaks in a couple hrs... I would take it in the morning and at night.. 200mg a pop.. Talk to ya

 

[Jarconis]

this winter when i bulk up again, I plan on starting my 1,4 dosages at 900, and possibly going up from there.

 

[D D D]

this winter when i bulk up again, I plan on starting my 1,4 dosages at 900, and possibly going up from there.

What a waste!!! Put it in a transdermal. I don't care what anyone has to say about the oral efficacy. I've been mixing it (dione version) in a transdermal 1:1 with 1-Test and the **** is powerfull. It will cut you up like a razor bro. 300 mg per day is more than enough in a transdemal. But beware, I've noticed that it's much more powerfull than 1-test when it comes to shutting the nuts down. These are my personnal observations, not something I read on a board somewhere else. Oral 1,4-andro will blast into your system way too quick to make the conversion to boldenone. You only have so much enzyme available at any given time to convert the 1,4-andro to boldenone. The transdermal will trickle in and convert much more efficiently. Oral will avert first pass in the liver, but end up in the toilet unconverted and unused.

 

[D D D]

Oh, that's right. I almost forgot. Use it for cutting. 4-Ad is way better for mass not to mention way less expensive.

 

[curt2go]

DDD do yu know any others that have used the 1,4 transdermally? TTY

 

[D D D]

DDD do yu know any others that have used the 1,4 transdermally? TTY

Just in Trenabolx or whatever it's called, but it has 4-AD and 1-Test in it. I find most people on these boards look at weight gain only to judge a supplement. I'm way past that point after 18 years of pumping iron. Try whipping up a 1,4-Andro only transdermal, you'll see what I mean. Your water retention will drop very quickly. Your nuts will act as a barometer for conversion efficiency also. I did this for a 1.5 week trial out of self-interest before adding in 1-Test in a 1:1 ratio for a superior cutting mixture. I"ve tried quite a few different combos since money is not a factor. I actually found the transdermal 1,4-Andro to be even more suppressive on the libido and nuts than the 1-Test only transdermal. The 1-Test transdermal produces significant DHT to keep you functioning a bit anyway. The 1,4-Andro doesn't from what I can tell. I'll try just about anything, and have.

 

[primal1]

The transdermal will trickle in and convert much more efficiently. Oral will avert first pass in the liver, but end up in the toilet unconverted and unused.

that was my theory. i"m getting ready to put my stack together. trying to decide if i should throw in some 3-alpha in.

 

[D D D]

that was my theory. i"m getting ready to put my stack together. trying to decide if i should throw in some 3-alpha in.

I've never used 3-alpha. If your looking to cut up, it may be worth a try. That way you would probably see strength gains while you were cutting, as well as maintenance of your libido due to the DHT conversion of the 3-alpha. The 1-Test/1,4-Andro combo is great for cutting while gaining strength, but shuts your libido/nuts down. Holy ****!!! I think you're onto something here.

 

[neurotic]

It's for cuts because it doesn't aromatize to estrogen. Like somebody once said: there are no steroids for mass or definition. Steroids are anabolic, hence they're gonna give you mass, the reason behind the myth about those steroids being for cuts was born because:
1. Some steroids like boldenone barely aromatize to estrogen, so they're not gonna promote water retention
2. Some steroids like winstrol are believed to be estrogen or progestin antagonists, which is not for sure by the way...

 

[carson33]

DDD - I used a transderm nordiol and 1,4-andro made by Chemo 16 weeks ago for a 8 week cycle. I decided on these 2 becaause of the low side effects... who wants that ****. It worked awesome for me! I got cut up.. went down to 8.5% body fat and added about 8 pounds. Libidio was awesome.

Unfortunately, I have to make my own brew now. I am going to make a bottle of Nordiol and 1,4-andro. Any idea about how many grams of 1,4-andro to add to the t-gel and how many squirts a day?

 

[nsruffryder34]

From my experiences, what works best is 10 grams of 1 test and 5grams of 1,4ad in one bottle, and 10 grams of 3beta and 5grams of 1,4ad in another bottle....do 1-2 squirts of eahc bottle2times a day and youll be set. I did this cycle twice and I hd 6 of my bros try it ou and hey all gained within 12-20 pounds on 4-6 week cycles. The thing with this cycle is that your stength goes up f**king awesome.
I was going to actually start to sell this stack on my new website and in my supp. store, but with the ban looming overhead i have decided to hold off on it for now. By the way, yes this is the stack I was lookin for testers for.

 

[kmac6225]

Unfortunately, I have to make my own brew now. I am going to make a bottle of Nordiol and 1,4-andro. Any idea about how many grams of 1,4-andro to add to the t-gel and how many squirts a day?

Hey carson, would you mind letting me know what you find out about the grams of 1,4-andro you need added. I'm looking into a trans like what Chemo made for you for my cutting cycle as well and would like to avoid most of the sides from other PHs due to the MPB in my genes.

Thanks man

 

[carson33]

www.1fast400.com they will sell the noraderm in a 12 gram transderm from advant labs and 1,4-andro in a powder form... which I bought today. I will mix it with t-gel from anabolicminds. I can not wait to get it. I bought 12 grams of 1,4andro powder.

 

[nsruffryder34]

Im not too familar wth 19no and 1,4aad stacked together. I dont think its going to be a great combo.... I really do think the best stack is what i mentioned above, its relativly cheap ad gives great results... its ot for those with mpb s it would def. be had on te hairline with two strong androgens.

 

[kmac6225]

I think he's sticking with the Nordiol and 1,4 andro stack just to be safe with the sides. IMO I'd say he knows about the benefits of 1 test and 1AD

 

[nsruffryder34]

i understand the sides issue.....i just dont think its going to be a grreat stack....if i were to stack 19nor with anyhting it would have to be 4ad...

 

[neurotic]

Taking 1,4-andro in a transdermal is nonsense. 1,4-andro is great for oral delivery, it delivers over 40% orally. Period.

 

[nsruffryder34]

I would be very hesitant to say it gives oer 40%....30-35% would be more like it and 40-50% can be achieved with the new formula....I got better results when taking 1,4as transdermally at a lower dose than when I took it at a higher dose orally...

 

[SCORPIO]

I would be very hesitant to say it gives oer 40%....30-35% would be more like it and 40-50% can be achieved with the new formula....I got better results when taking 1,4as transdermally at a lower dose than when I took it at a higher dose orally...

This is the exact reason I will be taking 1,4 andro at 400mg a day, and stack it with 1-test and 4ad. I will be mixing 3 seperate bottles of 240ml homebrew solution(1) 15gr 1-test........(2) 15gr 1,4 andro both which should dissolve clear.....and finally (3) 10-15gr 4ad in the other, which I'm sure will be hella cloudy or a bitch to dissolve @ 15gr. I have heard good things about 1,4 andro trans by a few members here and I'm willing to give it a try. I'll post some results when ever I get them.

 

[Molehonea]

Is it really good to stack 1,4 adro with 4ad?

 

[SoupBone1]

This is the exact reason I will be taking 1,4 andro at 400mg a day, and stack it with 1-test and 4ad. I will be mixing 3 seperate bottles of 240ml homebrew solution(1) 15gr 1-test........(2) 15gr 1,4 andro both which should dissolve clear.....and finally (3) 10-15gr 4ad in the other, which I'm sure will be hella cloudy or a bitch to dissolve @ 15gr. I have heard good things about 1,4 andro trans by a few members here and I'm willing to give it a try. I'll post some results when ever I get them.

Scorpio, any idea when you'll be starting that cycle?

Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to the way you're doing it as opposed to mixing up a bottle with 5g 1,4-ad plus 5g 1-test plus 5g of 4-ad?

Also, can somebody check my math? If you're putting 15g in a bottle and that bottle gives you 120 squirts, that's 15,000mg/120 or 125mg per squirt? So if you apply 2 squirts twice per day, that would be 500mg of each hormone per day? Does that sound right or am I completely off?

 

[SoupBone1]

Aw, hell, I thought of a couple more questions:

1) It looks to me as though T-gel is $21 for the same amount of product as you could get from 1fast (Avant's gel) for $55. Could that possibly be right? Is there that much difference?

2) The only place I know of to get the bulk powders is from 1fast. That stuff isn't sold here, is it?

3) I, too, am curious about a 1,4-ad topical stacked with 4-ad. I'd like to avoid some of the notorious 1-test side effects if possible, but D D D says that 1,4 will shut you down. I'd guess the 4-ad would offset that quite a bit. Might this be a decent stack along the lines of 1-test and 4-ad?

 

[Molehonea]

T-gel is $21 , where is this. I was going to use one-beta from avant. Yould any suggest some different 1,4 ad and 1-test products. I was goinn to by from 1fast but if I can get the same product types for cheaper I will ,. Does any know of some products like this?

 

[lancelot]

T-gel is now $29.99 at powernutrition.net. It use to be $21 at the member store which has now closed.

1fast has a good 1,4 andro-dione powder, but i'm gonna go with vpx's EQ (1,4 andro-diol) on my next cycle stacked with NorAderm.

 

[SCORPIO]

Scorpio, any idea when you'll be starting that cycle?

Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to the way you're doing it as opposed to mixing up a bottle with 5g 1,4-ad plus 5g 1-test plus 5g of 4-ad?

Also, can somebody check my math? If you're putting 15g in a bottle and that bottle gives you 120 squirts, that's 15,000mg/120 or 125mg per squirt? So if you apply 2 squirts twice per day, that would be 500mg of each hormone per day? Does that sound right or am I completely off?

I just started that cycle today. I'll start a thread in the 'cycle info' forum when I get all my info together.

When you go with 5gr of each in the same bottle, you are forced to get the same amounts of each andogen per amount of sprays. When you make them all seperate, you can lower or up a dose of each individual androgen. So, If you're getting alot of bloat from the 4ad, you can lower your dose (4ad) and up the 1,4 or 1-test and vice-versa. Kinda leaving your options open.

As far as your math: I'm using homebrew (240ml) with 15gr ph. So 15000mg/ 240ml= 62.5mg/ml. So yes, you were completely off.

 

[SCORPIO]

You can also get ph powders at Kilosports. They have a good deal on 20gr 1-test. For everything else I go with Mike, at 1fast, he always has good deals.

 

[SoupBone1]

I just started that cycle today. I'll start a thread in the 'cycle info' forum when I get all my info together.

Very cool. Keep us posted, please!

When you go with 5gr of each in the same bottle, you are forced to get the same amounts of each andogen per amount of sprays. When you make them all seperate, you can lower or up a dose of each individual androgen. So, If you're getting alot of bloat from the 4ad, you can lower your dose (4ad) and up the 1,4 or 1-test and vice-versa. Kinda leaving your options open.

Of course. That makes perfect sense.

As far as your math: I'm using homebrew (240ml) with 15gr ph. So 15000mg/ 240ml= 62.5mg/ml. So yes, you were completely off.

For some reason, I thought that a squirt was actually 2 ml, though, so a squirt would be 125 mg. So at least I was off for a reason!

 

[SCORPIO]

For some reason, I thought that a squirt was actually 2 ml, though, so a squirt would be 125 mg. So at least I was off for a reason!

Yea, if you're using the T-gel from BDC it is 2 ml per squirt. I used the recipe below, which is liquid. I put it in a spray bottle.....7 sprays= 1ml.

40% iso
25% ipm
10% oa
10% gly
10% dmso
5% d-lim

 

[julius kelp]

which better? nordiol/1,4ad/ or 1-test/1,4ad

+how would hydroxytest do in the stack? tia