Gyno Question

[Zero Tolerance]

Hey. I'm due for another shot of Cypionate (taking 300mg per week for 2 weeks and bumped it up to 450 last week) but I'm going to be a day late. It seems my nipples get a little sensitive the day before I'm ready for another dose.. Is that abnormal?

Anyhow. My nipples are a little sensitive/sore and I "think" I might feel a lump forming - so I'm taking .5mg a day of Letrozole (starting right now). Am I on the right track? How long shall I continue this? Until the cycle is finished?

Thanks in advance...

[xxtruxx1]

Yea, Letro should help. The only thing is it's gunna take a little while to stabilize in your blood, so give it some time. If I was you, I'd run .5mgs ed for the rest of the cycle & maybe even into PCT. If this doesn't help, then your gyno might be caused by something other than progesterone.

[Zero Tolerance]

Thank you. Now in the event that the cause is by something other than progesterone, what might be the best course of action?

[xxtruxx1]

Well depends what it's caused by. If it's prolactin induced gyno, cabergoline at .5mg twice a week spread evenly should do the trick. If it's anything else, nolva should get er done.

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm due for another shot of Cypionate (taking 300mg per week for 2 weeks and bumped it up to 450 last week) but I'm going to be a day late. It seems my nipples get a little sensitive the day before I'm ready for another dose.. Is that abnormal?

[xxtruxx1]

That I don't know about. My guess is that it happens cause the test levels off in your blood so there is a higher concentration of estrogen momentarily till you shoot. This probably raises your nipple sensitivity.

This is just a guess though.

[Zero Tolerance]

That's exactly what I'm thinking and looking for more opinions on. Thank you...

[gazdecki]

Is prolactin and progesterone gyno even possible on Testosterone? To my knowledge only tren derivitives could cause prolactin and only nandrolones could cause progesterone side effects.

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm actually taking .5mg of Letrozole every day (2nd day now) so I hope I'm on the right track...

[mixedup]

IF your on test cyp i would recommend nolva for gyno letro and cabergoline is more for progesterone induce gyno nolv will do better with estrogen induced gyno ie the type you'll get from cyp

[pistonpump]

i would also go with Nolva or Torem with low dose AI. That's from what i know. But i have a question. How much Nolva should he take??? some say 10mg some say 20mg, suggestions?

[xxtruxx1]

10mg should be fine. 20mg is more a "to be on the safe side" deal.

Yea, I didn't think it was progesterone or prolactin induced gyno. I was just stating the different types of gyno & what treats what.

[pistonpump]

[QUOTE=xxtruxx1]10mg should be fine. 20mg is more a "to be on the safe side" deal.
[QUOTE]

Well dont you think that he should "be on the safe side"? I was moreso directing the question to mixedup if he could chime in on it or perhaps the infamous Dr. D

[xxtruxx1]

More isn't always better. I'm sure 10mg e/d would do it, specially if his nips are simply sensitive & he has no lumps.

[Zero Tolerance]

I think I do have a lump on my right side so I just started with 60mg of liquid Tamoxifen Citrate - That should come out to about 40mg of actual Tamoxifen or so. Since this appears to be my first "lump", I can't be 100% positive that's what it is (I do have fat on my chest) - but I'm pretty sure about it.. I've had it for about 3 days now. So am I over-doing it with 40mg of Tamoxiden per day? Or no?

Thank you for all the help so far!

[xxtruxx1]

Run 40mg for the first 3 days, then drop to 20mg.

[mixedup]

Run 40mg for the first 3 days, then drop to 20mg.

that';s what I would do.

[Irish Cannon]

i would drop the ai and just use a serm. nolva i think would be the best. im not too sure about torimifene's effects on gyno. start off with a higher dose (30-40mg) for a few days and then drop to 10. No need to run 20mg once the gyno/tenderness goes away.

[mercedesdd]

Is prolactin and progesterone gyno even possible on Testosterone? To my knowledge only tren derivitives could cause prolactin and only nandrolones could cause progesterone side effects.

Testosterone can lower t-3 and in turn raise prolactin so yes test can cause prolactin issues.. Tren is similar to nandrolone they are both 19 nors meaning that a testosterone molecule has been altered at the 19th position..

[mercedesdd]

10mg should be fine. 20mg is more a "to be on the safe side" deal.

Yea, I didn't think it was progesterone or prolactin induced gyno. I was just stating the different types of gyno & what treats what.

Gyno is Gyno!! It needs esterogen to form.. If esterogen is kept in check progesterone gyno is usally not a concern.... check this out!!!

Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so

I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.