IFBB Pro's advice on Gear
- 08-17-2006, 02:27 AM
IFBB Pro's advice on Gear
I read this on another forum and thought it would be interesting read for many here.
"You need a testosterone base. 750mg/week is plenty.
You need an anabolic - deca or Eq at 400mg/week is
plenty. You need for optimum growth, a good oral like
d-bol at 30mg/d or A-50 50mg/d.
You use the test and the anabolic non stop. The oral
is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Every 6th week (the half
way point between the off oral period - so 2 weeks
after you finish the oral) you have a blood test. If
the blood test is OK, then you can begin your next 4
weeks on oral. There is no reason for you to come off.
The only 2 reasons are health or your receptors are
saturated. If the regular blood test is OK, your
health is OK. If you are still making progress, your
receptors are OK. Coming off, will just sabotage your
gains. That's why I do not believe in set time frames
for cycles. Listen to your body. When you use the
oral, you need to use all the liver aids available - Synthergine,
Milk Thistle, L-methionine, Liv-52, etc. Of course you
cannot drink or do rec drugs during that time. Using
these precautions, your blood tests will be OK.
You also need to use an anti estrogen like Nolvadex at
10mg/d throughout the whole time. Also, you have a
choice between HCG every 4 weeks at 5000IU or Clomid
at 50mg EOD. These will make sure that your balls will
stay at a decent size and they will not forget how to
The blood tests that you need are: full blood count,
liver and kidney function tests, FSH, LH, TSH,
If the Total protein test in the liver tests is high,
that is because of your diet. You need to keep an eye
on the Billirubin and Urea test results. Your FSH and
LH will be suppressed - that's normal because of the
gear. If the TSH is low, add 20mcg/d T3. If the kidney
function is off, then drink more. Protein stresses the
kidneys, so you need more fluids.
When you eventually come off the gear, you make sure
that you are off the orals. Then cut out the anabolic
over 2 weeks. Then the testosterone over 3 weeks. One
week after that, you need to add primo tabs or anavar
(oxandrin) for 3 weeks. That will ensure that you will
keep your gains.
Ideally do a gainkeeper's formula that is outlined in another article.
These are the basic principles behind muscle growth. You do the above you will GROW, no matter what."
- 08-17-2006, 07:35 AM
Interesting post. Doesn't seem to ridiculous or extreme, but from what I've read, I don't think those rare surges of high dose HCG are a good idea. The greater freq w/ lower dose seems the best way to not further disrupt the HPTA.
- 08-17-2006, 10:49 AM
08-17-2006, 10:58 AM
08-17-2006, 11:02 AM
08-17-2006, 11:33 AM
08-17-2006, 02:56 PM
According to Big A, his teachings go exactly against just about everything I've read here on AM. As far as safety is concerned I was always under the impression that the time spent on cycle is the time that needs to spent off cycle? As long as you feel well to many PCT isn't really a concern. Its just crazy to me that these guys spend the majority of time on cycle.
08-17-2006, 03:09 PM
For the individual who is trying to make professional bodybuilding a career, then they often choose different methods out of necessity. However, the majority of members at AM are not trying to be professional bodybuilders and therefore they choose to discuss healthier options.Originally Posted by gten79
Last edited by size; 08-17-2006 at 03:35 PM.
08-17-2006, 03:27 PM
i'd like to mention that i don't necessarily believe nor do i follow the time on = time off
yes if you do an 8 week cycle i think you should be off for 8 weeks .. however if you do a 20 week cycle i don't think you need to be off for 20 weeks at all (especially if PCT is done properly and HCG was used during cycle) i believe 8 weeks is still sufficient (and my personal blood tests have confirmed this at least for my body)
08-17-2006, 03:34 PM
Yes remember these are Pro's so what they do is going to be VERY DIFFERENT. Making a living doing this and just wanting to look good or get stronger like the majority of us on here is the difference between the advice given.Originally Posted by gten79
08-17-2006, 03:37 PM
I tend to agree with you but it is an easy protocol follow. More important than time on/off, in my opinion, is blood panel resutls and overall health. The final determining factor should always be one's health.Originally Posted by glenihan
08-18-2006, 03:40 AM
I agree with Glenihan and i go by bloodwork. Also I want to compete one day and i don't believe it's necessary to be on year round, not steroids anyway, you just use slin, igf-1, gh etc when off of gear.
08-18-2006, 05:49 AM
yes i have read that with very high doses of HCG it creates alot of estrogen activity as well and almost shocks the hormonal balance, like a crackhead hits an eightball. 5days straight each month of 250-500iu is the best.Originally Posted by Beowulf
08-18-2006, 05:50 AM
08-18-2006, 08:42 AM
Not me, as I do not use anabolic steroids.Originally Posted by pistonpump
Last edited by size; 08-18-2006 at 11:27 AM.
08-18-2006, 10:59 AM
08-18-2006, 11:24 AM
yes...and just to add, i think they look the best. im sick of looking at coleman and cutler. the only top physique i think looks good is dexter.Originally Posted by BLANE
08-18-2006, 11:56 AM
I second this. I think Dexter Jackson looks phenomenal. He is big but super cut. I also thought Kevin Levrone has an awesome physique.Originally Posted by Irish Cannon
08-18-2006, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by BLANE
I don't think so I think the ones that look best are the ones who probablly use more of a cruising dosage and less hgh so their waist doesnt get all distended.
08-18-2006, 01:05 PM
no, they're on 100% of the time. dosages and compounds vary though. i'm curious as to who ya'll think in the top 25 that actually comes off. and why would you begin to think that?Originally Posted by BLANE
08-18-2006, 01:25 PM
I agree time off doesn't need to equal time on but it's def a good general rule of thumb for most members here who take orals only and usually run 4-6 weekers.
08-18-2006, 01:47 PM
an 8week pct sounds a little excessive even if you were on for 16 weeks and any thing over that would be too much.
08-18-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by pistonpump
well the pct itself wouldnt' be 8 weeks but the time off would be 8 weeks. Dr.d does a 6week pct if I remember.
08-18-2006, 02:25 PM
Levrone is has a great bod. he inspires my rear delt flyes and inclines after watchin his workout vid.Originally Posted by PVSkyHigh
08-18-2006, 02:26 PM
08-19-2006, 01:21 PM
08-20-2006, 01:41 AM
kevin levrone comes and If I remeber right he would even quit lifting for a good part of the year. He for sure used to come off gear though. He would actualy shrink down to around 200lbs in the off season and then bulk up to and cut at the same time for a show. I beleive Arnold did the same.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
08-20-2006, 11:18 AM
levrone and arnold aren't competing. it's a different olympia today. in any case, i don't believe they came off either, ever. IMO, once you're a pro, that's it, you're done ****ing around with what 'might' work. you've chosen a lifestyle and now you have to be damn good at it. if one person stays on all the time, they all have to, just to stay competitive. the difference between first and second isn't much, the only difference is the guy in first is willing to do what everyone else isn't. JMO.
08-20-2006, 03:20 PM
Good point Beelzebub. I agree with what you stated 100%. These days everyone is huge in the IFBB and I think that if a top 10 builder were to come off he would soon find himself out of the top 10 and maybe even the 25.
08-21-2006, 02:31 PM
I think that they all stay on GH year round but who knows as far as gear, i'm sure well over 90% of them stay on year round though, I don't think i'd go about it like that though. Like i said bridge with slin, gh, igf-1, mgf, even if your only off for very brief periods.
08-21-2006, 02:37 PM
If you saw picts of levrone in his off season there's no doubt he came off gear for a while. He would look like a normal person almost. One of few to do this but he could do it and get away with it.Originally Posted by Jstrong20
08-21-2006, 02:39 PM
I'd have to say the guys of the Levrone days were bigger thatn todays pros. Levrone, dillett, nasser, marcus, ectOriginally Posted by Canadian Bacon
08-21-2006, 02:43 PM
08-21-2006, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by pistonpump
the freaks are numbered these days, but you have to include cutler/rhul/dennis james if your gonna say coleman.
08-21-2006, 06:22 PM
Hey Blane, or anyone else r u going to the IFBB show this Saturday at the Arlington convention center, I went to the first one they had a few years ago and until u see these FREAKS in person u really dont understand how damn big these guys really are, oh yea there will only be a couple of hundred fitness chicks there as well. Its something all of us need to go and see in person at least once, it will make u feel small as hell and motivate ya at the same time, and all the free supps. they give away is cool too......
08-21-2006, 06:40 PM
i am def. going to the fit expo, im not sure about the evening show. i met Quincy taylor last time i was there 2yrs ago.....DAMN that is one HUGE dude!
08-21-2006, 08:38 PM
Quincy Taylor, Markus Ruhl, Heiko Kallbach, Paco Bautista, Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, Toney Freeman, Phil Heath, Paul Dillet, Dennis Wolf, Gustavo Badell, Dexter Jackson, Dennis James
Who says we are short on freaks? Come on guys, i'm sure i've missed alot too, they are all freaky in different ways, for Dexter it's the shapes of his muscles and his condition, for Paco and Branch Warren it's those crazy legs and conditioning. Markus has the thickest chest in bodybuilding bar none. And toney freeman, what a freak a 30" waist at 300lbs! That's just nuts.
08-22-2006, 06:04 AM
sorry i forgot to mention others like cutler etc. but coleman of course stands out in anyones mind for obvious reasons.Originally Posted by BLANE
I also havent really followed the contestants of this years olympia. one of the muscle mags were saying how heath was going to take the title from coleman. from what i saw in his pics he didnt even look that big. but i dunno
08-22-2006, 06:08 AM
i went to a show in the early 2000's (cant remember exactly) but coleman and fux was there it was off season tho so they were even bigger. i didnt see coleman up close but jeanpierrefux was ridiculously huge. one of his traps were the size of my head! that was the only time i say real pros in person.Originally Posted by BLANE
08-22-2006, 11:04 AM
I give credit to all pro's. They are all freaks. There will always be a change from generation to generation of pro bbs
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