toremifene/cabogoline

[thebigt]

was going to go with both, tor for estro -cab for prolactin issues, but research shows that tor actually reduces prolactin, is it effective enough on its own or should i add the cab?

 

[mercedesdd]

was going to go with both, tor for estro -cab for prolactin issues, but research shows that tor actually reduces prolactin, is it effective enough on its own or should i add the cab?

Can you please post any studies that show tor reduces prolactin?? I have read that is does not have an effect on PgR but never read anything on it lowering prolactin.. Thanks

 

[DragonRider]

I can't find that as one of it's functions.


MedlinePlus Drug Information: Toremifene (Systemic)

 

[mercedesdd]

bump!!!

 

[thebigt]

YES look at teremifene in post cycle thread at am, you will find the article that shows tor reduces prolactin.

 

[DragonRider]

Here is what the search came up with. Dr. D says it is a derivative of tamoxifen. All of the articles say it is a S.E.R.M.
Nothing suggested it was effective for prolactin.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/search-927026.html

 

[mercedesdd]

Here is what the search came up with. Dr. D says it is a derivative of tamoxifen. All of the articles say it is a S.E.R.M.
Nothing suggested it was effective for prolactin.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/search-927026.html

Thats what I thought... Does anyone have any articles that would back up that it lowers prolactin??

 

[thebigt]

i gave you the thread look it up. grassroots-anabolic minds under post cycle therapy, it clearly says reduced prolactin.................

 

[mercedesdd]

Good question thebig .. I have been searching some med journals and can not find any studies that show how much of an effect tor has on prolactin. The ones I was reading just say it does lower prolactin but does not have any studies showing to what exact degree it can lower prolactin too.. I will keep researching this though. For now I would say use caber until we can get some exact info on to what degree tor lowers prolactin..

 

[thebigt]

thanks dd i see you are stuck at the same place i am at, it would appear in the research that it does lower prolactin, it just doesnt go into detail on how much, if any one has any info please post...

 

[1badboy]

I would at least use the cabergoline- it's come down in price a lot and frankly, it's FUN as a libido enhancer as well as it dealing with prolactin issues. Throw in an anti-e, maybe just Nolva, and you're good to go IMHO.

 

[thebigt]

damn i decided to just go with the tor, just hope its as good as dr.d says it is, if i go with the cab i have to wait 2 weeks till next payday/spent 250.00 this check and the wife bout had a cow. made sam at nutra planet happy though.

 

[thebigt]

ok its been 2 weeks and i am ready to order again, the tor is working great, going to order the cab. will post results. btw i can say from experience that tor works great for pct. recovery but dont think it does much for prolactin, i think tor and cab in combination will be great.

 

[Wandy]

I would at least use the cabergoline- it's come down in price a lot and frankly, it's FUN as a libido enhancer as well as it dealing with prolactin issues. Throw in an anti-e, maybe just Nolva, and you're good to go IMHO.

caber enhances libido? :blink:

 

[thebigt]

tor/cab

just took my first dose of cabergoline/anyone know how long it takes to kick in? btw a lot of places are selling cab some higher than others, i went cheap-what should i be looking for to know i got the real deal?

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I think the half life is about 65hours so it is supposed to kick in within a couple of hours. I took a lose dose of 25mcg or whatever the low dose is and felt nothing. you probably have to have a build up. also I'm on pct so that might effect it.

 

[thebigt]

wasted-how come you took so small a dose? for my first dose i took 60 or about half a dropper full, this stuff is supposed to be good for alot of things/improve libido,athletic performance,and its also a nootropic as well as anti-prolactin plus it gives a kind of feel good high.

 

[DragonRider]

just took my first dose of cabergoline/anyone know how long it takes to kick in?

Takes me about 2 to 3 weeks to see the benefits you listed.

wasted-how come you took so small a dose? for my first dose i took 60 or about half a dropper full, this stuff is supposed to be good for alot of things/improve libido,athletic performance,and its also a nootropic as well as anti-prolactin plus it gives a kind of feel good high.

The typical dose is .25mg twice a week. You can go up .25mg each week.
I take 1/2 (.5)mg 3 times a week, but I had to build up to it.

 

[thebigt]

dragonrider whats your opinion of cab-does it live up to its rep, thinking i will have to stock up while its still cheap and available.

 

[s.norman]

i just use plain old vit. b-6 400-600mg/day. there are studies that show its effectiveness in reducing prolactin.

 

[thebigt]

with all the benefits and no reported sides i dont see a dowm side to cab/looks like the real deal. give me a couple of weeks and ill let you know.

 

[DragonRider]

dragonrider whats your opinion of cab-does it live up to its rep, thinking i will have to stock up while its still cheap and available.

The jury is still out. I haven't noticed the sexual benefits everyone talks about, but it may take a while.

 

[yeahright]

Vitex

 

[hardestgainer]

nipple size

does cabergoline reduce nipple size and puffyness too. Damn M1t.:aargh:

 

[DragonRider]

does cabergoline reduce nipple size and puffyness too. Damn M1t.:aargh:

You need arimidex or nolva.

Please tell me you had those on hand when you took a supplement that you expected to give you steroid like gains.

 

[MuscleBound1337]

i just use plain old vit. b-6 400-600mg/day. there are studies that show its effectiveness in reducing prolactin.

Can you link to those studies? I'm interested in a effective but safe dose for vit b6 to run along with TRN for prolactin controle.

 

[hardestgainer]

You need arimidex or nolva.

Please tell me you had those on hand when you took a supplement that you expected to give you steroid like gains.

Hahaha, if u knew ur stuff buddy, M1T cause excess prolactin, causing the puff nips syndrome. Nolva won't do anything for that. So keep ur little "please tell me you had nolva on hand" comments to yourself, and contribute something the the thread. Anyways, just an update guys, got my cabergoline in yesterday, did my first does, so far so good, nips are'nt as puffy. I am using the letrozole too, maybe that's whats helping. gonna check for lactation in like 2 weeks.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

wasted-how come you took so small a dose? for my first dose i took 60 or about half a dropper full, this stuff is supposed to be good for alot of things/improve libido,athletic performance,and its also a nootropic as well as anti-prolactin plus it gives a kind of feel good high.

I read that was the minimum dose and wanted to start low and work my way up.

 

[DragonRider]

Hahaha, if u knew ur stuff buddy, M1T cause excess prolactin, causing the puff nips syndrome. Nolva won't do anything for that. So keep ur little "please tell me you had nolva on hand" comments to yourself, and contribute something the the thread. Anyways, just an update guys, got my cabergoline in yesterday, did my first does, so far so good, nips are'nt as puffy. I am using the letrozole too, maybe that's whats helping. gonna check for lactation in like 2 weeks.

Well, at 48 years old and doing this for 30 years, I know a little. I am also a moderator an two other boards.
M1T is methylated testosterone. It converts just like any steroid to test and estrogen, so letrozole, arimidex and nolva would have prevented the gyno.

So in that respect I did contribute to the thread.

 

[Wandy]

Well, at 48 years old and doing this for 30 years, I know a little. I am also a moderator an two other boards.
M1T is methylated testosterone. It converts just like any steroid to test and estrogen, so letrozole, arimidex and nolva would have prevented the gyno.

So in that respect I did contribute to the thread.

methylated testosterone converts "just like any steroid to test"? what?

you're 48 and you've been doing "this" (hopefully you don't mean cycling steroids on and off) since you were 18? no offense or anything, but i think it would be a good idea to avoid your advice.

i am quite certain m1t does not aromatize to estrogen... it shuts down your hpta, but i've heard that taking nolva for prolactin gyno may actually do more bad than good. mercedesdd can confirm this for you and explain it properly.

 

[hardestgainer]

methylated testosterone converts "just like any steroid to test"? what?

you're 48 and you've been doing "this" (hopefully you don't mean cycling steroids on and off) since you were 18? no offense or anything, but i think it would be a good idea to avoid your advice.

i am quite certain m1t does not aromatize to estrogen... it shuts down your hpta, but i've heard that taking nolva for prolactin gyno may actually do more bad than good. mercedesdd can confirm this for you and explain it properly.

Hahaha, thanx for the support wandy, nolva for prolactin gyno, lol. 30 years my ass. :bruce1:

 

[DragonRider]

Hahaha, thanx for the support wandy, nolva for prolactin gyno, lol. 30 years my ass. :bruce1:

No one said anything about nolva for prolactin gyno. However, prolactin is thought to promote gyno through it's effects on estrogen. In other words prolactin does not directly cause gyno. It only causes lactation.

Additionally, where is your evidence that methylated test raises prolactin?

Reference.com/Encyclopedia/Testosterone
Mechanism of effects
The effects of testosterone in humans and other vertebrates occur by way of two main mechanisms: by activation of the androgen receptor (directly or as DHT), and by conversion to estradiol and activation of certain estrogen receptors.

 

[Wandy]

No one said anything about nolva for prolactin gyno. However, prolactin is thought to promote gyno through it's effects on estrogen. In other words prolactin does not directly cause gyno. It only causes lactation.

Additionally, where is your evidence that methylated test raises prolactin?

Reference.com/Encyclopedia/Testosterone
Mechanism of effects
The effects of testosterone in humans and other vertebrates occur by way of two main mechanisms: by activation of the androgen receptor (directly or as DHT), and by conversion to estradiol and activation of certain estrogen receptors.

i don't need evidence. m1t raises prolactin. like i said, check with the person i mentioned for a more detailed answer.

you suggested using nolva to someone who was/is using m1t, which would not only be a waste of nolva, but could actually worsen his prolactin. bad advice.

while i've got your attention, may i ask you a question? since you have extensive knowledge on the subject from 30+ years of experience and are a mod on two other boards, could you please explain to me the conversion process of methylated testosterone to testosterone? feel free to quote reference.com for this one.

 

[DragonRider]

i don't need evidence. m1t raises prolactin. like i said, check with the person i mentioned for a more detailed answer.

OK?

The clip I pasted is testosterone basics 101, of course. The intent was to show that test converts to it's metabolites such as DHT and estradiol which converts to estrogen. No where in there will you find that test increases prolactin in any healthy male. And the methylation in methylated test just takes the place of 17 alpha alkylation to assist in first bypass of the liver.

 

[Wandy]

OK?

The clip I pasted is testosterone basics 101, of course. The intent was to show that test converts to it's metabolites such as DHT and estradiol which converts to estrogen. No where in there will you find that test increases prolactin in any healthy male. And the methylation in methylated test just takes the place of 17 alpha alkylation to assist in first bypass of the liver.

if you've been doing this for 30 years, why are you quoting reference.com for something you are so vastly knowledgeable on? this statement, like most others made by you in this thread, speaks volumes of your ignorance. test does not increase prolactin, methylated test does. if you don't understand how m1t acts on the human body when it is injested, that is your problem. m1t is not testosterone that you can eat instead of inject, figure out that most basic concept before embarassing yourself with another post.

facts: m1t increases prolactin levels. nolvadex does not lower prolactin levels. methylated test does not "convert" to test (no ****), nor estrogen for that matter. this conversation is over.

 

[DragonRider]

this conversation is over.

Whatever makes you happy.