Reality check regarding esters.
07-27-2006 10:12 AM
Reality check regarding esters.
Reality check regarding esters.
First the disclaimer, this is free advice and it is worth the price but I am not anyone that you should be listening to. Do so at your own risk and don’t whine about it afterwards.
I was doing some research the other day and noticed two things, first was that the number of “experts” that are in truth idiots seam to be on the rise and the second that some misinformation just never dies. The way esters work is one I am looking at today. An “expert” or “vet” was going on about Godzilla-bol and how great this was because they had some really short esters with some really long esters that would provide a very long lasting shot with an even release. If your not familiar with Godzillabol consider yourself lucky but in an someone else’s words
He also seams to like the term “whopping” in his write up. He also states that it’s perfect for weekly injections. I am not just picking on him, lots of people believe this especially about sustanon. The mistakes they are making can be seen here
Each milliliter of Godzillabol has 50 mg of Testosterone acetate, 50 mg of Testosterone propionate, 150 mg of Testosterone cypionate, and 50 mg of Testosterone laurate for a mind-numbing 300 mg/ml Testosterone blend.
Basically the biggest flaw in their reasoning is this: The peak of hormone release for any ester in an oil based injection is between 12 and 36 hours regardless of the ester used. From that point on the level of hormone release drops at constant (over a large statistical sample) non-linear rate that can easily be plotted. Even if no ester is used for that matter, testosterone no ester in oil will still work in this manner. This is the half life; it is the same mathematical process that governs the decay of radioactive materials, rolling of dice, and so on. In other words it is a function of probability. In the case of the hormones we use it’s the probability that they will go into water, necessary for the body to hydrolyze the ester and return the hormone to a usable state. The longer (not heavier, the weight has little or nothing to do with this) the ester the less water soluble (that is it more hydrophobic) it is and the more soluble in oil (that is its more lipophilic) So what the ester does is modify the partition coefficient which is the ratio between the two solubilities. In all this please note the following; there is no mechanism for any ester to peak after the initial injection, just a semi-steady derogation of the depot after.
The whopping 150 mg/ml of Testosterone cypionate means that blood levels of Testosterone peak five to seven days after injecting it and remain substantially elevated for maybe three to four days after that.
So let us take a look at our old friend sustanon here. Sustanon consists of 30mg testosterone propionate, 60mg testosterone phenylpropionate, 60mg testosterone isocaproate, and 100mg testosterone decanoate. They have a half life of 4.5, 4.5, 9, and 15 day respectively. Let us assume that we bought the theory of how sustanon works and that we are going to use a weekly injection of 2cc on Sunday every week for X number of weeks. We start the week on Sunday with a 500mg shot and count that as day 1. We receive 44mg of test for that day. Day two (Monday) we get 39, then 35, 31, 28, 25, and 23 on Saturday. That works out to drop of 48% of your daily dosage by the end of the week. That is hardly even, less so then testosterone enanthate. It only has a 35% drop by Saturday. Go figure. As you can see there is nothing particularly even about sustanon, let alone godzillabol. In all fairness this does improve some over the course of the cycle but only so much, 43% vs. 48%. The moral here? Sustanon must be taken 3 times a week to keep your dosage even. Godzillabol would actually be worse. The only single shot a week steroids are going to have a nonanoate or longer ester (Decanoate, undecanoate, and laurate.) For instance a testosterone decanoate has a 26% drop in daily dosage the first week and 23% drop in week 5 using it the same as the sustanon above.
Another way of looking at this is to take the average half life of the mixture and use that to determine the dosing schedule. Sustanon works out to be 7.5 days or the same as testosterone valerate. The minimum you should inject testosterone valerate is twice a week with 3 times being much better. So the same should apply to sustanon or any other testosterone blend.
In all reality though these testosterone blend tend to give you more of the disadvantages of the esters rather then the benefits of them. For instance sustanon does not build up any faster then the average halflife allows, about 2 to 3 weeks. Testosterone valerate would be the same. But testosterone valerate does not take 3 weeks to clear out before you can start your post cycle therapy where sustanon does. It does kick in quicker then testosterone enanthate but is not as even and still takes longer to clear. Testosterone propionate clears much faster and kicks in much quicker but it requires more injections then the testosterone enanthate. But sustanon only reduces the number of shots a week by less then 1 (every other day for the testosterone propionate or 3.5 shots a week vs. 3 shots a week for the sustanon.) where the testosterone enanthate only requires two a week.
If you want to really make use of the specific benefits of an ester in a cycle you are going to have to run more then one but do them separately. For instance you can jump start your cycle by adding test prop at the front of the cycle why you are waiting for the longer ester to build up. Then you can use the same to end your cycle so as to avoid the long clear time at the end (dead time, your not on but your not off and recovering.)
07-28-2006 11:21 AM
i read recently that in a clinical environment, researchers saw plasma nandrolone concentrations peak higher and faster with the phenylpropionate ester versus the decanoate one. same dose, same amount of oil. difference was significant.
Originally Posted by Skye
07-28-2006 03:18 PM
as a shorter esters it would release faster (less lipophilic) but wasn't the "peak" still within 12 to 36 hour range? that usually has to do with the mechanics of the injection rather then the what.
Originally Posted by same_old
07-28-2006 03:28 PM
Keep em coming Skye! I'm learning some new **** daily
02-05-2008 05:32 AM
I am not trying to be smart here but I have some questions.
We start the week on Sunday with a 500mg shot and count that as day 1. We receive 44mg of test for that day. Day two (Monday) we get 39, then 35, 31, 28, 25, and 23 on Saturday.
I dont get it? If you shot 500mg of sust why do you start with 44mg of test?
Another way of looking at this is to take the average half life of the mixture and use that to determine the dosing schedule. Sustanon works out to be 7.5 days or the same as testosterone valerate.
How did you calculate that?
I think it should be: (30/250 * 4.5) + (60/250 * 4.5) + (60/250 * 9) + (100/250 * 15)= .54+1.08+2.16+6=9.78 days
02-06-2008 04:08 PM
1. The amount of test biologically available i.e. the amount that gets hydrolyzed out of the depot.
Originally Posted by tcop
2. I used a spread sheet charting each ester and adding up the averages at the end. This was done using a day to day calculation of the decay. If I can find it I will double check it. (If I can get time)
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