preventing Gyno while on Test & Deca
- 07-20-2006, 08:02 AM
preventing Gyno while on Test & Deca
I've been searching for how to prevent gyno or mainly the aromatization of test and deca to estrogin or progesteron
i was under the impression that dostinex and proviron would do the job until i lately know that dostinex has nothing to do with progesteron, but it will prevent lactating. and proviron is an Anti Estrogen that will prevent the aromtaizing of Test., some say letro is enough, some say that they got gyno while they were taking letro. its really confusing and cant decide .
My question is, what should i take to prevent aromatizing and to prevent gyno on Test And Deca cycle ??taking in consideration that i'll be doing 600mgs of test/w and 300-400 mgs of Deca a week .
thanks in advance
- 07-20-2006, 08:06 AM
dont take my word for it but i believe 50mg of proviron ED should do the job. maybe if you even threw in a low dose nolva with it would work. im fairly new tho so im still learning but i believe that would be enough.
- 07-23-2006, 12:59 AM
thx buddy, i'm still interrested to know what others more experienced and vets think about it.
07-23-2006, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Mess
I would use letro at .25 mg ED or EOD.. Letro has also been shown to lower progesterone receptors and will keep estrogen in check remember less estrogen less chance of deca gyno.. Also would use caber at 250mcg 2x per week..
07-23-2006, 01:06 AM
Nolva will increase PgR in breast tissue and is not a wise choice to use when using a 19 nor IMO.. Nolva will give more receptors for the deca metabolites to bind to..Originally Posted by pistonpump
07-23-2006, 02:23 AM
i've read in a thread that someone got gyno while was on letro during his cycle,
Mercedes, i already asked this question in other thread were you explained in more details about letro, would proviron do the same as letro as it is an AI??
07-23-2006, 02:52 AM
Not sure about the other person your speaking about I dont know dose or how he used it so cant answer on that.. Letro is a strong AI and if you keep estrogen in check progesterone gyno is usually not a concern.. I am not sure if you saw this so I will post it again as it is very informative.. I would use the letro when using deca due to it begin a very strong AI and the lowering of progesterone receptors if it was me.. Check this out sorry for double posting if you saw it before..Originally Posted by Mess
Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so
I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.
Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.
Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.
There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though
Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.
07-23-2006, 07:36 AM
you lost me since line 2 ,J/K I really appreciate your input,
what i did understand is that Deca doesnt aromatize and the way to prevent gyno while on Deca is to make sure that estro. is in check .
thats why you recommend Letro as an AI. , well do you know the difference between Proviron and letro. and if proviron does the same??
07-23-2006, 11:38 AM
If you control the estrogen to the right degree then progesterone inudced gyno will not be able to manifest itself. This is why people are using letro. It reduces estrogen to the point where progesterone isnt a concern.Originally Posted by Mess
i have also read many times that nolva with cause further activation of the progesterone receptor, but have had experiences with nolva/letro that suggest to me that nolva at 20mgs ED is still the best way to go. letro at .5 and .75 mgs ED did nothing to control my Tren gyno but once i dropped it and stuck with nolva it deflated very quickly.
proviron is an AI that also lowers SHBG but i cant imagine it is as strong as letro. If i were you i would use the proviron as planned and simply keep the nolva on hand. Letro just has too many sides and simply didnt work for me.
07-24-2006, 01:02 AM
WOW, thats really good . maaaaaannn, i cant thank you enough for it, this answered almost all my questions .
But i still have one more question, from what i understood that proviron will reduce the aromatization and will act to inhibit estro. forming but in what percentage ??
and as long as it does what it do can it be used instead of letro and have letro in hand just in case ??
from my experience with proviron stacked with 750mg of test enan. no any estro side were noticed at all. the only sides i noticed was increased overall body hair .
Mercedes, cheers buddy, you are good people
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