- 07-17-2006, 08:52 PM
Ok guys i've seaching for these past fews days and still can't get a straight answer just mixed answers. I am sorry if these are stupid questions and if its too many questions so here it goes...
1. what is the diference between progesterones and progestins?(are they the same)
2. what the difference between proges gyno and estro gyno.
3. what causes proges gyno, estro attaching itself to proges receptor or proges attaching itself to the proges receptor.
4. Does AAS such as tren, M1t, X-mass, deca increase progesterone or progestin or decrease it?.
5. Will letro increase test levels during pct?
6. What happens to the circulating estrogen after letro and other type ll AIs have stoped Aromatase enzyme from aromatizing steroid compounds.
7. Do AIs lower progesterone or progestins too.
8. What exactly is estrogen rebound.
If anyone can anyone can answer these questions i will greatly appreciatly as i have been so frustrated trying figure this stuff out. Thanks
- 07-17-2006, 09:00 PM
Your questions can be found rather simply by searching this site or just as easily obtained from searching the web trhough google etc. And your questions are not ones that should have conflicting answers for the most part.
- 07-17-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
07-17-2006, 09:19 PM
1. Not the same two different hormones .. prolactin effects the mammary gland and can cause lactatingOriginally Posted by megadose
2. Gyno is gyno
3. To high of a estrogen level
4. anabolic steroids with progestinc properties such as deca , tren and so on can increase progesterone and prolactin
5. Studies do show letro can raise test levels
6. The AI stops the conversion of test into estrogen so less is circulating in your body
7. Letro has been shown to lower progesterone receptors so it can possibly lower progesterone you will need to take caber or something else like it to lower prolactin as an AI will not help with prolactin..
8. When you stop taking an AI the estrogen basically will rebound( you can search more on estrogen rebound and it will explain more)
Well this is just a push in the right direction on your questions.. If you do some more researching you will be able to find everything you want to knowThese are just brief answers to what your asking. Hope it helps...
07-17-2006, 09:37 PM
where does this high level of estro act on estro receptor or the proges receptor.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
does that mean that there no such thing as proges gyno.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
So progestins are steroids like deca, tren etc.... and progesterone is a different hormone?Originally Posted by mercedesdd
thanks for reply
07-17-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by megadose
Check this out also as it might help you understand more...
Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so
I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.
Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.
Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.
There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though
Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.
07-17-2006, 10:11 PM
so prolactin can cause gyno?Originally Posted by mercedesdd
07-17-2006, 10:13 PM
Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin.......Originally Posted by megadose
07-17-2006, 10:18 PM
Progesterone and Prolactin are totally different hormones.Originally Posted by megadose
Prolactin stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk and it elevated during nandrolone family use because nandrolone lowers TSH production thus lowering T3 resulting in raised prolactin levels
07-17-2006, 10:30 PM
Haha! Great job with the topic at hand Mercedesdd, nothing for me to add.
07-17-2006, 10:33 PM
Thanks buddy.. Nice to see ya over here more often now adays......Originally Posted by Bajanbastard
07-17-2006, 10:55 PM
Can you explain this in laymans terms. I not good with chemistry.Originally Posted by mercedesdd
07-17-2006, 11:38 PM
It means the PR has two isoforms and nandrolone will repress the PR-B and in turn have direct effect on the PR and progestin but you would have to have a high ratio of both isoforms before it would be a issue( which seems unlikly). When starting use of the compound there is more of a chance of the two isoforms begin at the aforementioned high ratio.. And is saying a AI will help with this because progesterone is a E2 (prostaglandin) agonist...Originally Posted by megadose
07-18-2006, 12:17 AM
I've read that progestins will make PR more sensitive but to what estro or progesterone.
07-18-2006, 12:23 AM
HUH??? PR progesterone receptor..... Not estrogen progesterone.....Originally Posted by megadose
07-18-2006, 12:28 AM
so progestins will not make PR more sensitive?Originally Posted by mercedesdd
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