**MAXIMIZE Your STEROIDS: ULTIMATE Anabolic SECRETS!**

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  1. **MAXIMIZE Your STEROIDS: ULTIMATE Anabolic SECRETS!**


    Take endocrinology 101 first.


  2. ok..... who wants to go first with this one?
    cc
    •   
       


  3. Take your shot buddy.

    BE OBJECTIVE.

    I am sure this will be a GREAT discussion!

    [R]

  4. Quote Originally Posted by The Master

    Testosterone PROPIONATE is the [U
    most[/U] effective testosterone esterCOLOR]
    This is because:
    [LIST][*]It is FAST acting[*]Requires frequent injections which allow for more STABLE blood levels of testosterone, DHT, and Estrogen.[*]NO Side-effects. (due to above)[*]Quicker HPTA Recovery[*]It is easier to maintain gains. [*]Can be used more effectively for BOTH--BULKING and CUTTING.
    ]
    For starters, the bolded comment is not true. Testosterone in general is known to negativly affect lipid profiles. Thus, exogenous administration of testosterone will increase the risk of atherosclerosis.
    cc

  5. HMMMMM.....Interesting
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by canadian champ
    For starters, the bolded comment is not true. Testosterone in general is known to negativly affect lipid profiles. Thus, exogenous administration of testosterone will increase the risk of atherosclerosis.
    cc
    In clinical dosages of 100-300mgs WEEKLY, LIPIDS WERE NOT negatively affected in the majority of subjects.

    Furthermore, that is impertinent to the subject at hand.

    PROPIONATE is a superior form of TESTOSTERONE ester, as the half-life is PERFECT for testosterone administration, and lack of side-effects.

    [R]

  7. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    *Some steroids DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE HPTA![/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    This means:
    • Greater retention of gains POST cycle.
    • Testosterone is NOT needed in EVERY cycle.
    • Quicker HPTA Recovery.
    • You can run longer, non-inhibitory cycles.
    • Using both, steroids that cause SHUTDOWN and steroids that do NOT in the same cycle, will lead to PERMANENT gains!
    • You can use Primobolan, Anavar, Dianabol, Masteron, Winstrol, Turinabol, and Equipoise for longer periods of time than you can with Pituitary-inhibiting compounds such as Testosterone, Nandrolone, Trenbolone, and Oxymetholone.

    ]
    All steroids will cause shutdown if used for a sufficient period of time, albeit to differing degrees. Simply put, through negative feedback loops, exogenous administration of hormones will reduce or eliminate the bodies own production in an attempt to maintain homeostasis.
    cc

  8. I gotta ask, what do you do for PCT then?


    Also, what's with the little side picture of you face? A little vein are we? I'm just messin bro

  9. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    In clinical dosages of 100-300mgs WEEKLY, LIPIDS WERE NOT negatively affected in the majority of subjects.

    Furthermore, that is impertinent to the subject at hand.

    PROPIONATE is a superior form of TESTOSTERONE ester, as the half-life is PERFECT for testosterone administration, and lack of side-effects.

    [R]
    How is this not pertinent? Can you post the study that you are quoting?
    Many animal studies have shown that castration will increase HDL levels. Here is a study, for starters...

    Effects of testosterone on lipid peroxidation, lipid profiles and some coagulation parameters in rabbits.
    J Vet Med A Physiol Pathol Clin Med. 2005 Nov;52(9):436-9.

  10. Also, looks like you might have a little gyno. Try Nolva or Letro.
    cc

  11. Quote Originally Posted by canadian champ
    All steroids will cause shutdown if used for a sufficient period of time, albeit to differing degrees. Simply put, through negative feedback loops, exogenous administration of hormones will reduce or eliminate the bodies own production in an attempt to maintain homeostasis.
    cc
    WRONG!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------




    NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

    "Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

    SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

    Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

    The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

    Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

    Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

    We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS

  12. Quote Originally Posted by canadian champ
    Also, looks like you might have a little gyno. Try Nolva or Letro.
    cc
    '


    ah, burn....In that side pic, yeah I see it.


    EDIT: Master what do you use for PCT then if no nolva?

  13. *The HPTA is NOT A SINGLE ENTITY!**

    "The hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (also HPTA) is a way of referring to the combined effects of the hypothalamus, pituitary gland, and gonads as if these individual endocrine glands were a single entity. Because these glands often behave in cooperation, physiologists and endocrinologists find it convenient and descriptive to speak of them as a single system.
    The hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis is a critical part in the development and regulation of a number of the body's systems, such as the reproductive and immune systems."

  14. Quote Originally Posted by US-Marine
    I gotta ask, what do you do for post cycle therapy then?


    Also, what's with the little side picture of you face? A little vein are we? I'm just messin bro
    POST CYCLE THERAPY..

    *HCG- To RESTORE testicular MASS.

    *Aromasin- To RESTORE testosterone PRODUCTION.

    *Proviron- To INCREASE FREE TESTOSTERONE in the body, block estrogen, and INCREASE LIBIDO.

    *Creatine- To remain ANABOLIC(although not HORMONALLY--creatine IS ANABOLIC)

    *Injectable B-12- For INCREASED energy.

    *Tribulus EXTRACT(Pharmaceutical grade TRIBESTAN)- Increases LH output

    *Eurycoma Longfolia(Tongkat Ali)- To further increase FREE TEST levels, and increase libido.



    [R]

  15. There is ALOT of steroid DOGMA.

    I am just trying to spread some new iNFO.

    Good bros here.

    [R]

  16. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    There is ALOT of steroid DOGMA.

    I am just trying to spread some new iNFO.

    Good bros here.

    [R]

    You do make some interesting points, I won't lie, and I'm young so I do not know all the clinical jargon you bros are referring to, but I'm trying to keep up the best I can...


    As per your PCT plan, well how much does all that run? and dosage wise, I'd have no clue with hose except maybe injectible HCG

  17. Quote Originally Posted by US-Marine
    You do make some interesting points, I won't lie, and I'm young so I do not know all the clinical jargon you bros are referring to, but I'm trying to keep up the best I can...


    As per your post cycle therapy plan, well how much does all that run? and dosage wise, I'd have no clue with hose except maybe injectible HCG
    You bring up an INTERESTING point.

    The REASON CLOMD and NOLVA are PREFERRED for post cycle therapy--is because they are CHEAP!

    If you have a good source, it shouldn't cost you much at all.

    [R]

  18. Well...Nothing like diving striaght into the waters instead of wading in

    *nods*

  19. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    There is ALOT of steroid DOGMA.

    I am just trying to spread some new iNFO.

    Good bros here.

    [R]
    I appreciate your candiness. That being said, until you post some studies backing your claims, your post is simply anecdotal. If that was your intent, then great please post your successes and experiences because judging by your pictures you are in great shape.
    cc

  20. Quote Originally Posted by canadian champ
    I appreciate your candiness. That being said, until you post some studies backing your claims, your post is simply anecdotal. If that was your intent, then great please post your successes and experiences because judging by your pictures you are in great shape.
    cc
    Studies for...?

    What are we UNCLEAR about? Just let me know and I will clarify with some solid evidence.


    [R]

  21. Where is Dr.D

  22. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    Studies for...?

    What are we UNCLEAR about? Just let me know and I will clarify with some solid evidence.


    [R]
    Post a few studies showing that testosterone administration doesnt negatively affect lipids. I have posted t othe contrary.
    Please post something to back your claim that 'some steroids do not affect HPTA'.
    cc

    Edit: sorry, did not see previous post about HPTA. It is important to note, however, that these patients had testicular failure.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by canadian champ
    Post a few studies showing that testosterone administration doesnt negatively affect lipids. I have posted t othe contrary.
    Please post something to back your claim that 'some steroids do not affect HPTA'.
    cc
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------




    NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

    "Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

    SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

    Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

    The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier post cycle therapy.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

    Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

    Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

    We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS

  24. Quote Originally Posted by The Master
    Studies for...?

    What are we UNCLEAR about? Just let me know and I will clarify with some solid evidence.


    [R]
    I'm unclear why you came back after being made a fool the last time around. Bobo WILL ban you again. But for the sake of arguing I would like some proof of the following:

    1. Proof that lipid values will not be extremely poor if one follows you 3 on/1 off for AIs. I would like this in HUMAN MALES. As last time you did nothing but post studies of castrated rates you found on pubmed.

    2. Proof that the front loading of EQ would not cause a significant rise in total serum blood levels fast enough to show its power in less than 12 weeks.

    3. Proof that Primo builds muscle in a caloric deficit and more importantly proof that Tren does not do the same.

    4. Proof the of superiority of AI's over serms when following a non-aromatizing steroid protocal. Seems like crushing estrogen that isn't even present would cause more problems then any extra benefits one might recieve.

    If anyone wants to do more research on this guy look around for a guy called "The Mind of Ross."

  25. Quote Originally Posted by The Master

    Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

    Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

    Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

    We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure . All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS
    Last time I checked, most of us did not have "primary testicular failure", so this really isnt relavent.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    Last time I checked, most of us did not have "primary testicular failure", so this really isnt relavent.
    LOL--

    This demonstrates your complete lack of understanding for scientific material.

    [R]

  27. Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    I'm unclear why you came back after being made a fool the last time around. Bobo WILL ban you again. But for the sake of arguing I would like some proof of the following:

    1. Proof that lipid values will not be extremely poor if one follows you 3 on/1 off for AIs. I would like this in HUMAN MALES. As last time you did nothing but post studies of castrated rates you found on pubmed.

    2. Proof that the front loading of EQ would not cause a significant rise in total serum blood levels fast enough to show its power in less than 12 weeks.

    3. Proof that Primo builds muscle in a caloric deficit and more importantly proof that Tren does not do the same.

    4. Proof the of superiority of AI's over serms when following a non-aromatizing steroid protocal. Seems like crushing estrogen that isn't even present would cause more problems then any extra benefits one might recieve.

    If anyone wants to do more research on this guy look around for a guy called "The Mind of Ross."
    1.) Aromasin has even been shown to exhibit a positive effect on blood lipids. You should be FINE using my protocol in my suggested DOSAGE.(12mgs ED)

    2.) LOL--LEARN your CHEMISTRY buddy. With an Undeclynate ester, this is NOT POSSIBLE. You will however have ridiculous PEAK blood levels if you TRY this, and I would NOT SUGGEST it. Talk about BLOOD PRESSURE!

    3.) You need PROOF that primo(Methenolone) builds muscle in a calorie defecit? LOL--everyone knows this, but I WILL dig up the study. And as for TREN; it has NOT been demonstrated, but--yes, I would agree that being 3 times more ANABOLIC than TEST and 4 times more androgenic, Tren could build muscle in a calorie defecit, so long as sufficient protein were present.

    4.) SERMS do NOTHING to REDUCE ESTROGEN! Aromatase Inhibitors BLOCK the FORMATION of estrogen via inhibiting the ENZYME responsible for the CONVERSION of androgens to estrogens--AROMATASE. They also DRASTICALLY increase endogenous testosterone production, and even increase FREE test.


    [R]

  28. JornT, is that you?

  29. ok, I appreciate debates, by why are you yelling?

    You should also know that your use of HCG during PCT is suppressive in itself... you are mimicking LH, so in a sense taking a step out of the HPTA recovery... do you agree?
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