The Master
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Take endocrinology 101 first.
most[/U] effective testosterone esterCOLOR]
This is because:
- It is FAST acting
- Requires frequent injections which allow for more STABLE blood levels of testosterone, DHT, and Estrogen.
- NO Side-effects. (due to above)
- Quicker HPTA Recovery
- It is easier to maintain gains.
- Can be used more effectively for BOTH--BULKING and CUTTING.
]
In clinical dosages of 100-300mgs WEEKLY, LIPIDS WERE NOT negatively affected in the majority of subjects.For starters, the bolded comment is not true. Testosterone in general is known to negativly affect lipid profiles. Thus, exogenous administration of testosterone will increase the risk of atherosclerosis.
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All steroids will cause shutdown if used for a sufficient period of time, albeit to differing degrees. Simply put, through negative feedback loops, exogenous administration of hormones will reduce or eliminate the bodies own production in an attempt to maintain homeostasis.*Some steroids DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE HPTA![/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
This means:
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- Greater retention of gains POST cycle.
- Testosterone is NOT needed in EVERY cycle.
- Quicker HPTA Recovery.
- You can run longer, non-inhibitory cycles.
- Using both, steroids that cause SHUTDOWN and steroids that do NOT in the same cycle, will lead to PERMANENT gains!
- You can use Primobolan, Anavar, Dianabol, Masteron, Winstrol, Turinabol, and Equipoise for longer periods of time than you can with Pituitary-inhibiting compounds such as Testosterone, Nandrolone, Trenbolone, and Oxymetholone.
How is this not pertinent? Can you post the study that you are quoting?In clinical dosages of 100-300mgs WEEKLY, LIPIDS WERE NOT negatively affected in the majority of subjects.
Furthermore, that is impertinent to the subject at hand.
PROPIONATE is a superior form of TESTOSTERONE ester, as the half-life is PERFECT for testosterone administration, and lack of side-effects.
[R]
WRONG!All steroids will cause shutdown if used for a sufficient period of time, albeit to differing degrees. Simply put, through negative feedback loops, exogenous administration of hormones will reduce or eliminate the bodies own production in an attempt to maintain homeostasis.
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'Also, looks like you might have a little gyno. Try Nolva or Letro.
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POST CYCLE THERAPY..I gotta ask, what do you do for post cycle therapy then?
Also, what's with the little side picture of you face? A little vein are we?:rofl: I'm just messin bro
There is ALOT of steroid DOGMA.
I am just trying to spread some new iNFO.
Good bros here.
[R]
You bring up an INTERESTING point.You do make some interesting points, I won't lie, and I'm young so I do not know all the clinical jargon you bros are referring to, but I'm trying to keep up the best I can...
As per your post cycle therapy plan, well how much does all that run? and dosage wise, I'd have no clue with hose except maybe injectible HCG
I appreciate your candiness. That being said, until you post some studies backing your claims, your post is simply anecdotal. If that was your intent, then great please post your successes and experiences because judging by your pictures you are in great shape.There is ALOT of steroid DOGMA.
I am just trying to spread some new iNFO.
Good bros here.
[R]
Studies for...?I appreciate your candiness. That being said, until you post some studies backing your claims, your post is simply anecdotal. If that was your intent, then great please post your successes and experiences because judging by your pictures you are in great shape.
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Post a few studies showing that testosterone administration doesnt negatively affect lipids. I have posted t othe contrary.Studies for...?
What are we UNCLEAR about? Just let me know and I will clarify with some solid evidence.
[R]
---------------------------------------------------------------------Post a few studies showing that testosterone administration doesnt negatively affect lipids. I have posted t othe contrary.
Please post something to back your claim that 'some steroids do not affect HPTA'.
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I'm unclear why you came back after being made a fool the last time around. Bobo WILL ban you again. But for the sake of arguing I would like some proof of the following:Studies for...?
What are we UNCLEAR about? Just let me know and I will clarify with some solid evidence.
[R]
Last time I checked, most of us did not have "primary testicular failure", so this really isnt relavent.Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.
Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.
We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure . All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS
LOL--Last time I checked, most of us did not have "primary testicular failure", so this really isnt relavent.
1.) Aromasin has even been shown to exhibit a positive effect on blood lipids. You should be FINE using my protocol in my suggested DOSAGE.(12mgs ED)I'm unclear why you came back after being made a fool the last time around. Bobo WILL ban you again. But for the sake of arguing I would like some proof of the following:
1. Proof that lipid values will not be extremely poor if one follows you 3 on/1 off for AIs. I would like this in HUMAN MALES. As last time you did nothing but post studies of castrated rates you found on pubmed.
2. Proof that the front loading of EQ would not cause a significant rise in total serum blood levels fast enough to show its power in less than 12 weeks.
3. Proof that Primo builds muscle in a caloric deficit and more importantly proof that Tren does not do the same.
4. Proof the of superiority of AI's over serms when following a non-aromatizing steroid protocal. Seems like crushing estrogen that isn't even present would cause more problems then any extra benefits one might recieve.
If anyone wants to do more research on this guy look around for a guy called "The Mind of Ross."
LOL--ok, I appreciate debates, by why are you yelling?
You should also know that your use of HCG during post cycle therapy is suppressive in itself... you are mimicking LH, so in a sense taking a step out of the HPTA recovery... do you agree?
I tried to keep this short but….
Test prop is a good ester but most effective is not the term I would use. Requires more injections is not a benefit for most people, the trauma of injects add up. Scar tissue is a real concern. There really isn’t such a thing as a stable blood level, what you mean here is that there is a very even release from the depot. Free test in the blood is only an indirect indicator of what is going on. If it was that important you could inject a long ester ED or EOD and get extremely even release of the hormones. The fact that you’re using prop for this type of dosing is irrelevant. Test base (suspension), acetate, benzoate, formate , and phenol propionate would all do the same. And again it comes at a cost. So does using any drug for that matter, they all have side affects. There is nothing for free. And HPTA recovery is only quicker because its out of your system quicker, running test prop or transdermal test for the last two weeks of your cycle will work just as well. Bulking and cutting are functions of your diet, not the drug you use. While some are better then others almost all will work for both.
AIs should not be run unless really needed. They hurt more then they help. Lipid profiles, ED problems and other side affects make these somewhat questionable for a lot of cycles let alone when you’re off. Off is off or should be.
All steroids shut you down, even if it does not affect all parts of the HPTA. It only has to shut down one part. AND I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PERPOSING THAT A 17A METHYLATED STEROID CAN BE RAN LONGER THEN TEST. I am sorry that is just stupid.
You’re partaully right on the EQ, it does take a while to kick in even when frontloading. However front loading DOES speed the things up by at least half. And EQ does shut you down and it has its own set of sides even if they are mild.
This no side affects business is getting old, primo does have sides, yes its nice but its mild and very expensive for what it does.
The first two reasons for spot injections (winny) working are things you don’t want; they cause damage and scar tissue.
Sure you can stack two methylate steroids together. I mean, what has your liver done for you lately? It’s all over rated. But wouldn’t moderation be just using one oral steroid and not pushing it?
You need estrogen. And the whole point of a SERM is that they allow estrogen to form. And no they do not affect the effectiveness of the AIs, ( I also thought that until someone showed me better info on that, sorry bro I can’t think of your name) And there are dangerous? But running two orals steroids together is not?
FIRST of all....I tried to keep this short but….
Test prop is a good ester but most effective is not the term I would use. Requires more injections is not a benefit for most people, the trauma of injects add up. Scar tissue is a real concern. There really isn’t such a thing as a stable blood level, what you mean here is that there is a very even release from the depot. Free test in the blood is only an indirect indicator of what is going on. If it was that important you could inject a long ester ED or EOD and get extremely even release of the hormones. The fact that you’re using prop for this type of dosing is irrelevant. Test base (suspension), acetate, benzoate, formate , and phenol propionate would all do the same. And again it comes at a cost. So does using any drug for that matter, they all have side affects. There is nothing for free. And HPTA recovery is only quicker because its out of your system quicker, running test prop or transdermal test for the last two weeks of your cycle will work just as well. Bulking and cutting are functions of your diet, not the drug you use. While some are better then others almost all will work for both.
AIs should not be run unless really needed. They hurt more then they help. Lipid profiles, ED problems and other side affects make these somewhat questionable for a lot of cycles let alone when you’re off. Off is off or should be.
All steroids shut you down, even if it does not affect all parts of the HPTA. It only has to shut down one part. AND I CAN’T BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY PERPOSING THAT A 17A METHYLATED STEROID CAN BE RAN LONGER THEN TEST. I am sorry that is just stupid.
You’re partaully right on the EQ, it does take a while to kick in even when frontloading. However front loading DOES speed the things up by at least half. And EQ does shut you down and it has its own set of sides even if they are mild.
This no side affects business is getting old, primo does have sides, yes its nice but its mild and very expensive for what it does.
The first two reasons for spot injections (winny) working are things you don’t want; they cause damage and scar tissue.
Sure you can stack two methylate steroids together. I mean, what has your liver done for you lately? It’s all over rated. But wouldn’t moderation be just using one oral steroid and not pushing it?
You need estrogen. And the whole point of a SERM is that they allow estrogen to form. And no they do not affect the effectiveness of the AIs, ( I also thought that until someone showed me better info on that, sorry bro I can’t think of your name) And there are dangerous? But running two orals steroids together is not?
Great resoponse!nice post. my thoughts,
premise: Prop is the best Test-Ester.
CED59: I agree totally. If it allows for the most maintainable gains I don't know. Long Esters yield retainable gains usually. Based on the short'est' ester is best argument, we'd say that suspension gains would be more retainable. obviously, not the case
premise: EQ, need to be used 12 weeks.
CED59: I agree but for a different reason, however, you can frontload EQ 1000,1000,800 and it will be active at over 600mg in your body.
premise: Some anabolic steroids don't shutdown HPTA.
CED59: Vague statement. Shutdown is dose dependent. Avoiding shutdown is possible though, that is correct.
premise: AI used year round.
CED59: I agree 95%. I don't get the estrogen sides but, if you are taking finasteride - I'd recommend it. Aromasin, ATD or 6oxo. not Letro or Adex! <-- bad news, in my opinion
dude...if you're going to come back from a banning under a different handle, at least use an email address that doesn't contain the previous handleTake your shot buddy.
BE OBJECTIVE.
I am sure this will be a GREAT discussion!
[R]
Fair enough.dude...if you're going to come back from a banning under a different handle, at least use an email address that doesn't contain the previous handle
I'm also curious as to hwat you are looking to gain from this. Your post as if you're running a marketing campaign.
Now, with that being said "I DO" agree with some of the things you've mentioned. But, if you're to stick around, you're going ot have to tread lightly and keep the ****iness level to a minimum. I just wanted to give you fair warning that you will be gone again if you're not careful.
This is actually a gray area...You listed Anabolic 2006 as a reference against Nolvadex???
Ihave Anabolics 2004, and from memory (i've read it a few times, but its been a long time) Lwellyn recommends its use over Clomid, and believe it is necessary over HCG.
You know HCG is suppresive in itself right? So you would argue that an AI is BETTER at restoring testicular function than a SERM - is that corrrect?