Military Urinalysis

[AnonymousSACO]

There have been a lot of threads in regards to the military and drug testing. Some of the questions included what do they normalyy screen for, what are the cutoffs that will make you pop, and do they screen for AS.

As a the Substance Abuse Control Officer(SACO) for my unit please allow me to shed some light on this issue. But before I start, I must state, in no uncertain terms, that I do not condone the use of ANY illegal substance. I just feel its impoprtant to provide you all with the accurate information.

1. In the Navy/Marine Corps, the unit is required to randomly test 10% of its people per month. The people selected for these test are selected completely randomly via the units roster imputed into a computer program.

2. These random tests screen for the following drugs. On this list you will also find the concentrations in your blood that will make you pop.

Rpt Abbreviation Drug Cutoff Value
THC THC 15 ng/ml
COC COCAINE 100 ng/ml
PCP PCP 25 ng/ml
COD CODEINE 2000 ng/ml
MOR MORPHINE 4000 ng/ml
6AM HEROIN 10 ng/ml
LSD 2-OXO-3-HYDROXY-LSD 1000 pg/ml
LSD LSD 200 pg/ml
MDMA MDMA 500 ng/ml
MDA MDA 500 ng/ml
MDEA MDEA 500 ng/ml
OXCOD OXYCODONE 100 ng/ml
OXMOR OXYMORPHONE 100 ng/ml
DMETH D-METHAMPHETAMINE 100 ng/ml
DAMP D-AMPHETAMINE 100 ng/ml

2. What happens if someone pops? Once the SACO receives the report from the drug screening lab that someone has popped positive, that member will be recommended for an administrative separation unless that member was prescribed a medication that falls in line with the substance that they popped for.

3. What are the chances for a false positive? The drug screening labs have some high speed gear. If any sample comes back positive,, they immediately test it again. They routinely quality check their test equipment by having shop supervisors randomly sending batches of samples through with known positive samples. The testers do not know when this occurs. So to sum it up, the chances are slim to none that when a SACO gets a report that a sample is positive for drugs, that it is incorrect.

4. Now to the AS issue. If you reference the list above, you will not find a single listing for any kind of AS/PH. Thats because the facilities that the Navy/Marine Corps use, which are located in J'Ville FL, and San Diego, CA, can not screen for AS/PH. They just dont have the equipment. The Navy/Marine Corps has to send samples for steroid testing to Dr. Caitlin's lab at UCLA. The most recent price for this test ws $250.00.

5. So how does the military actually test for steroids then? Well this is kind of a nebulous issue. First, you have to be suspected of use and the command then has to have probable cause to ask you for a sample. Now comes the question, well how in the heck does the command get probable cause. Like I said, its a nebulous issue. Anyone reading these threads knows the sides associated with using AS/PH's and which ones can become apparent to your co-workers.
If your command thinks it has probable cause, they will probably already have consulted with base legal, they will ask you to consent to providing a sample. They are going to ask you this because it ellimnates the need to prove probable cause. If you do not consent, the commanding officer will then order you to provide a sample. There is a differnece here. Personally, I dont think I would ever consent to any kind of test. Whether I was using or not. This comes down to privacy issue for me. Besides, if you consent and you pop, you can be recommended for court martial. If it is a command directed test, and you pop, they can only administratively seperate you. Reason being, a positive result obtained from a command directed urinalysis, without satisfying probable cause, is not admisable in court.

5. So then you ask, what AS/PH can they test for and how ong do they stay in your system? This question I cant definitively answer. I think that you could probably find the answer to this on this board someplace or on the net. Just be advised, I would suspect that any answer you find will be a best guess. I have talked to the drug demand reduction coordinator for my base, and was sitting in his office when he called the UCLA lab. The UCLA lab would not go into specifics as to screeing process and detection times.

6. So you are asking, what does this mean for me? In a nutshell, dont do drugs. Plain and simple. If you are using dope or AS/PH, and in the military, you are playing with fire.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.

Best regards

 

[Jayhawkk]

wow an anonymous insider, meat gazer! I loved piss days, you guys always kept my testis warm


j/k Yeah, you'll definately know if you're getting pissed for anything other than random. They have to let you know on the form you sign on what type of test it is.

 

[Sea223]

I went in to the military to get away from drugs-It didn't work. I was stationed in Germany. Right after 9/11, I pissed hot for mdma and I got the boot. Best thing to ever happen to me. When I got out- I grew up, and now I'm a successful personal trainer bettering the health of others.

Just thought I'd share my little story

 

[I-Vtec]

fantastic post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now correct me if Im wrong here right.

are there no tests designed to test for things like m1t 1 ad and the once legal now illegal prohormones correct.

Also crrent ph's on the market still legal like pheraplex ergomax. prostanz. and all its varations under other names wont get you into any hotwater correct?

Im in the military and I have several co workers and friends also serving that use various legal alternatives suck as those mentioned above.

We always assumed that since its not on the banned or illegal list we are good to go correct>

plus the fact most all of us know that unless there is a reason given that we wont be asked to test for AAS.

that coupled with i dont think I know anyone dumb enough serving right now to toy with fire like that


great post man

 

[Jayhawkk]

They'll check for increased test levels not particular drugs.

 

[gotripped]

They'll check for increased test levels not particular drugs.

The thing I see most compelling here is Jayhawkk's avatar which looks like a dying weak animal.
However it's not.
That is truly interesting.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Isn't it though?

 

[gotripped]

Indeed. I thought it interesting as looking at what your liver would have been as an animal after 5 cycles of m1t in a year. Or perhaps not. Ya know I really don't like japanese cartoons but Kung Fu is catching on these days.
:bruce1:

 

[Jayhawkk]

Just goes to show that natural selection doesn't always work

 

[hotsauce]

Let me just say VERY NICE.......

AND

OOOOOOORRRRAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

 

[AnonymousSACO]

fantastic post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now correct me if Im wrong here right.

are there no tests designed to test for things like m1t 1 ad and the once legal now illegal prohormones correct.

Also crrent ph's on the market still legal like pheraplex ergomax. prostanz. and all its varations under other names wont get you into any hotwater correct?

Im in the military and I have several co workers and friends also serving that use various legal alternatives suck as those mentioned above.

We always assumed that since its not on the banned or illegal list we are good to go correct>

plus the fact most all of us know that unless there is a reason given that we wont be asked to test for anabolic steroids.

that coupled with i dont think I know anyone dumb enough serving right now to toy with fire like that


great post man

Like I said, this is a rather nebulous issue. Here's a quote from the MARINE CORPS PERSONAL SERVICES MANUAL P1700.24B. Appendix E. I'll include a link if you want to read the whole thing.

22. Anabolic Steroid Testing. Possession or trafficking of anabolic
steroids by Marine Corps personnel is prohibited and considered a
violation of Article 112a of the UCMJ, except as prescribed by a physician for therapeutic purposes and recorded in the Marine’s medical record.
a. Collection of suspected anabolic steroid urine will follow the
procedures and documentation required for normal drug urine collection in the Marine Corps program. Steroid testing is not limited to random
testing. Commanders may collect specimens under other premises.
b. Before the urine specimen(s) are collected, commands
must contact the laboratory below via phone to ensure the laboratory can accept the specimen(s) and arrange for payment. Only after these items are completed, will a command send the specimen(s) to the laboratory. The cost of the anabolic steroid testing will be paid out of local Drug Demand Reduction funds. Commands are authorized direct liaison with the laboratory to coordinate shipping and analysis of urinalysis specimen(s).
Each specimen(s) that is collected will be forwarded for testing
expeditiously to:

University of California, Los Angeles
UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory
Department of Pharmacology
2122 Granville Ave. Los Angeles, CA 90025
(310) 260-9077

Also attached you'll find a MarAdmin from January 2005. It specifically addresses andro but not any other Prohormone. Now, with what is stated in the Service Manual and whats in the MarAdmin, you may think using some of the newer stuff out there you're good to go. But not so quick. If you have a sample collected from you and sent to UCLA and it comes back positive, you can bet your ass that you will be prosecuted.

I know that this really doesnt give any concrete answers as to what you can take without the fear of being hammered. The Marine Corps for the most part just cant keep up with all the new supps that are constantly being produced. I think a good rule of thumb would be if the World Anti-Doping Agency is testing for it at the various labs, which includes UCLA, you are putting yourself at risk if you take it.

So as promised, heres the links:

First one is the Service Manual:
U.S. Marine Corps Orders and Directives - MCO P1700.24B W/CH1


Here's the MarAdmin:
MARADMIN - CHANGE TO THE ANABOLIC STEROID CONTROL ACT OF 1990


Semper Fi

 

[revodrew]

I guess that recon doesnt have anything to worry about.:ntome:

I used to love watching those guys go from 180 to 225 in about 3 months! All natural baby!!!

 

[glg]

It's been a long time ago (1/68 - 1/72) but we used to get looked at cross-eyed if we had any supplements/vitamins in our lockers at all. No aspirin yada yada yada. If it wasn't from sickcall you didn't have it. Course there is more off base housing and billets etc now days.

I also found that as in modern times ('Nam seems like another age) if you knew the corpsman or a fitness guy you could manage a script for any number of things.

I trained with two of the Corps' PanAm Judo champs back then and was always able to find the right Doc' for pain and whatever.

'Course I also self medicated a lot back then but that's another story.

SACO - what would trigger a 'probable cause' situation? CIS info, behavior, sudden weight change, alleged 'roid rage?

 

[I-Vtec]

i would imagine the weight size gain would be the biggest cause.

i still belive the whole roid rage thing is a falacy. if your an ******* in the first place you will still be a ******* on it.

i worked with the smallest lankiest ****er but he had such a bad temper. . so Id think that going from 145 to 195 in 2-3 months would raise an eyebrow over a tempertanturm would be my best guess

 

[Basso]

It's been a long time ago (1/68 - 1/72) but we used to get looked at cross-eyed if we had any supplements/vitamins in our lockers at all. No aspirin yada yada yada. If it wasn't from sickcall you didn't have it. Course there is more off base housing and billets etc now days.

I also found that as in modern times ('Nam seems like another age) if you knew the corpsman or a fitness guy you could manage a script for any number of things.

I trained with two of the Corps' PanAm Judo champs back then and was always able to find the right Doc' for pain and whatever.

'Course I also self medicated a lot back then but that's another story.

SACO - what would trigger a 'probable cause' situation? CIS info, behavior, sudden weight change, alleged 'roid rage?

Things have definitely changed, you can't even get aspirin now, they just tell you to go buy some. If you know somebody and they get you (or think about getting you) something...anything. Pack your bags, cause it's time to make big rocks into little rocks.

 

[AnonymousSACO]

It's been a long time ago (1/68 - 1/72) but we used to get looked at cross-eyed if we had any supplements/vitamins in our lockers at all. No aspirin yada yada yada. If it wasn't from sickcall you didn't have it. Course there is more off base housing and billets etc now days.

I also found that as in modern times ('Nam seems like another age) if you knew the corpsman or a fitness guy you could manage a script for any number of things.

I trained with two of the Corps' PanAm Judo champs back then and was always able to find the right Doc' for pain and whatever.

'Course I also self medicated a lot back then but that's another story.

SACO - what would trigger a 'probable cause' situation? CIS info, behavior, sudden weight change, alleged 'roid rage?

When I went through my SACO training course a while back, and we discussed AS, I almost came unglued over the discussion. The amount of disinformation being relayed from the instructor was unbelievable. Everything from the "roi rage" falacy to you name it. We all know bogus info the government is spewing for as scare tactics. But I digress.

Probable cause can be satisfied if during say a health and comfort inspection AS are discovered, or the service member is seen taking AS. Now those are very objective situations. The more subjective situations include rapid weight gain, increased acne, mood swings(even though we know this one is bs).

Like I said in my original post, it is a very nebulous issue.

Dont give your command reason to suspect you.

 

[enswalters]

If a prohormone is completely legal and something that can be purchased at Vitamin Shoppe or some other supplement store, I don't see how you could prosecuted by the military. Most steroids are illegal so I can see the military going after someone for that, but prohormones that are completely legal? Just don't see it happening.

 

[suncloud]

good old Operation Golden Flow

and yes, it breaks DoD policies to take prohormones, whether they be legal or not. much like the consensual age in kansas is 16... we are held to national standard, not state level.

 

[revodrew]

My last two years I went from 170lbs to 212lbs and got questioned by my peers but the command had there head shoved so far up there a$$ all they did was enter me into Battallion PFT competitions! My commanding officer was so happy I won that they didn't give two ****s how I got there! Worked for! I was doing 31 pullups for my pfts! It was nuts! I'm pretty sure they knew but didt care!

They actually consulted in me for what weight equipment we should bring to Iraq in the quadcon? It was great!

 

[SSD21]

If I decide to run a PH before I leave for USMC boot, would that be a mistake on my part? Will the increased test levels show up in a blood test, or do they not administer blood tests?

What I took from this thread is that I will only run into problems if the sides are highly obvious. So, should I be alright?

 

[revodrew]

It would be a mistake cause your going to be deprived food and weights for 12 weeks! Your going to lose everything you gain prior to leaving. Save it for after MCT/ grunt training depending on your job. You'll have plenty of time to smash the weights then!

 

[Zero V]

It would be a mistake cause your going to be deprived food and weights for 12 weeks! Your going to lose everything you gain prior to leaving. Save it for after MCT/ grunt training depending on your job. You'll have plenty of time to smash the weights then!

Also you dont want to be dealing with no sleep, massive stress, lack of nutrition, etc, while your body is trying to rebalance out its hormones. Not so goods.

 

[SSD21]

Im going in with the UZ contract. Recon Marine. So I'll go from boot, to SOI, then directly to BRC, Basic Recon School.

I had a serious upper back injury, and getting my pull-ups where they need to be is a problem as of right now. I work on them constantly, but I need the extra push. I have experience with AAS twice in the past, and I know the push will help. Especially with the short time frame I am working with. If I run a PH for 4-5 wks, PCT for 4-5 weeks, that would put me at just a few days before I ship to the Island.

I don't want to disagree with you guys, as you all have much more experience than me in this regard. However, given the timeframe I laid out, I don't see where problems lie...?

All thoughts, pros and cons, greatly appreciated...

 

[Zero V]

Im going in with the UZ contract. Recon Marine. So I'll go from boot, to SOI, then directly to BRC, Basic Recon School.

I had a serious upper back injury, and getting my pull-ups where they need to be is a problem as of right now. I work on them constantly, but I need the extra push. I have experience with AAS twice in the past, and I know the push will help. Especially with the short time frame I am working with. If I run a PH for 4-5 wks, PCT for 4-5 weeks, that would put me at just a few days before I ship to the Island.

I don't want to disagree with you guys, as you all have much more experience than me in this regard. However, given the timeframe I laid out, I don't see where problems lie...?

All thoughts, pros and cons, greatly appreciated...

what kind of upper back injury?

 

[SSD21]

Also, in response to revodrew: I fully understand I will be food and weightroom deprived, I just want to have my strength level where it needs to be. Moreso, where I feel confident in my abilities, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[SSD21]

Tear in my lat. Also, mild-moderate tear in my rotator cuff. Rt. side.

 

[Zero V]

Tear in my lat. Also, mild-moderate tear in my rotator cuff. Rt. side.

And they wavered that?

 

[SSD21]

This was fairly recent. The docs at MEPS saw no issues with it, as it has healed, but the strength isn't to my liking.

Just to let you know, I lost my spleen to a hockey injury 26 May 2006. Had emergency surgery which left me with a 25 cm. scar from the incision running from my sternum, down below my navel. The docs didn't see a problem with that, so I wouldn't see them having too much of an issue with a muscular injury.

It wasn't the severity of the injury as much as the poor timing...

 

[enswalters]

I finally found a different discussion on this topic where it actually specified which prohormones are prohibited by the military. Pretty much all of the most common ones, but something like LG's Trifecta Stack seemed to be ok. Very likely anything developed in the last year or two wouldn't be on the list either, as the military doesn't exactly update their regs that quickly.

 

[Aceman2323]

As far as testing for anabolics from my understading is that it takes a 3-star to okay a specialized test for anabolics i believe it has something to do with the price of the test

 

[panmerc]

Good post!! Its good to hear from the source rather than the barracks lawyer. haha!

 

[kjkriston]

As far as testing for anabolics from my understading is that it takes a 3-star to okay a specialized test for anabolics i believe it has something to do with the price of the test

Totally innaccurate! It takes your CO and thats it! Probable cause however is usually only considered being caught with gear or paraphenalia (ie pins). Getting bigger is not enough for base legal to give the go ahead. They are lawyers and the know what will hold up and what wont. "he got big from lifting" isnt not probable cause.

 

[BDonnelly713]

Can you link to the other discussion? I'd be curious to compare it to the list that my base gave me. Thanks!

 

[bigrich954rr]

SO would it be ok to run a Hdrol cycle then be off it for 4 weeks before shipping to boot camp ?

 

[bigrich954rr]

Any ideas ?

 

[mpsoldier7]

Hi I'm new to the military. I just got back from bootcamp and so far love the military. But on piss test day I can never do it. Like I have no problem pissing in front of someone. But I can never piss on those tests no matter how much water I drink. I was wondering if theres any kind of profile for it and if it was possible to do blood tests instead for me or another test of that nature.

 

[CopyCat]

Hi I'm new to the military. I just got back from bootcamp and so far love the military. But on piss test day I can never do it. Like I have no problem pissing in front of someone. But I can never piss on those tests no matter how much water I drink. I was wondering if theres any kind of profile for it and if it was possible to do blood tests instead for me or another test of that nature.

Yeah, that's not likely to happen. They'll just have you stand by until you can. Eventually you will need to. By order they cannot close up shop for the day until they have everyone one/sample accounted for appropriately.

Glad you dug this old thread up because the info in here still basically rings true today.

 

[550lbdinosaur]

My understanding is that a small number of random samples are subjected to exhaustive testing. Does that mean it's possible but very unlikely that youcould get the steroid assay without command direction? Or did I misunderstand that in a brief I once heard? Or maybe it was just bull**** to intimidate people?

 

[Dark horse]

When I was in a lot of people were on aas.. Never tested.. Now i was a grunt in a grunt battalion in the marines tends to be more lenient.. When jack 3d first came out they sol it at our Px . They first jack 3d WORKED lol but battalion wide piss test came around and half popped for methamphetamine lol found out it was the pre workout

 

[Dark horse]

SO would it be ok to run a Hdrol cycle then be off it for 4 weeks before shipping to boot camp ?

Should be fine

 

[Dark horse]

Totally innaccurate! It takes your CO and thats it! Probable cause however is usually only considered being caught with gear or paraphenalia (ie pins). Getting bigger is not enough for base legal to give the go ahead. They are lawyers and the know what will hold up and what wont. "he got big from lifting" isnt not probable cause.

This ^ they don't care if u get big they would rather see big and fit than fat. It's the military. But if they do a random room inspection and find something that points to aas use then they could. If ur in the fleet I wouldnt worry too much about it

 

[Wilko]

Without getting into details, whilst deployed to a JCOP in Iraq someone in my company discovered Halotest 25. Then a platoon was on it. Then two. Then by month six we were fist fighting for MRE calories and at least ten guys were running injectibles. Most were uneducated jacktards with no concept of PCT, but all the same we looked plenty different by the time we redeployed.

We were drug tested twice during deployment. Not once did anyone come up hot for AAS.