Letrozole for controllig estro/progest. sides.
- 06-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Letrozole for controllig estro/progest. sides.
Okay well I am on test/tren and I was curious about letrozole dosage. I had originally planned to use .5 mg EOD, however, I am considering .25 mg EOD now because I don't want to lower estrogen so much as it makes it hard to gain weight. I am basically using letro in the first place to prevent progest. induced gyno, since it needs estrogen to occur.
Just want to hear from the vets, sice this is my first time using letro.PharmD
- 06-23-2006, 11:09 PM
Bro I am on the same as you right now and I was starting to develop some gyno and I am totally not prone to it. I was already taking arimidex also and it was still developing. I started the Letro on Monday and it has really decreases the problem and it seems ( I hope it continues) to be receeding back to normal. My vote is to go with the Letro. I am on a cutter so I am not too worried about the weight gain aspect but I think at .5mg a day you should be fine. If you have any symptoms of course boost it up. JMHO.
- 06-23-2006, 11:13 PM
you do have the right idea LD... Letro seems to take a little while to get up to levels, but it's a good'un.
Your best point is to keep the dosage low.. It's powerful, and it's key to not obliterate your estrogen.. just mildly control it and limit it raising much... I personnaly feel Estrogen to be quite beneficial in many aspects.. health/gains-wise
0.25 EOD will still be efficacious for your prevention purposes...
06-23-2006, 11:26 PM
Start low and work your way up with Letro. Its very very powerfull. I wouldnt ever go above 1g EOD unless you are treating gyno. I've taken 1.5g-2g for a few days, My balls start to ache and I feel like an arthritic old man. I personally would avoid it unless you are treating gyno and need to completely obliterate estrogen. A-dex would be better for on cycle IMO, but I dont have extensive experience with A-Dex.
06-23-2006, 11:27 PM
i am also on the tren/test combo (superb) and had been using letro at .5 ED and then a .75mg dose e3d a few hours before bed. i did not dose in the beginning to see how i would do without it but i got the prolactinish gyno signs and started dosing (i am prone).
now i am using cabergoline at .5 mg twice a week and this has helped greatly. i have also found that dropping the dose down to .25 mg ED works just as well and isnt as hard on my joints....no estrogen make jomi822's joints very unhappy with him.
06-24-2006, 12:04 AM
letro hits my joints hard too.Originally Posted by jomi822
dose .5mg ED to start, then adjust up or down if you have either type of symptom - itchy nips or achey joints (gyno or low estrogen, respectively)
06-24-2006, 12:45 AM
Haha I got like 4 diff answers. Def. makes it harder to determine which route to take. Thank you for all of your responses though!
I think I am going to try .25 EOD, then bump to .5 EOD if it stays a problem. I am also going to be taking cabergoline at .5mg 2x weekly
06-24-2006, 01:41 AM
Letro is the best chioce. It will help lower progesterone receptors. Low estrogen is key IMO when using tren . Less estrogen less chance of prog related gyno.. I like letro a .25 mg EOD or you might want to try .25 ED instead of .5 eod if .25 ED does not work( might have to play with the dose to see what works best for ya). The caber will help with prolactin issuses and the letro will keep estrogen in check and help with progesterone issues..Originally Posted by LakeMountD
06-24-2006, 09:19 AM
Many people tend to say shy away from Letro due to its potency. And, yes, it shuts the libido down quite quickly. From experience, however, I've actually gotten used to the Letro. The only thing, really, that it ever does to me is make me a little tired. Other than that, notta. In contrast to many, I LIKE the letro and LOVE using it especially now that it doesn't tire me out much anymore.
06-24-2006, 10:09 AM
Lake, I usually use .25mg EOD, and at most go up to .5mg EOD. I have never had to go higher than the .5mg, but thats just me.
06-24-2006, 11:09 AM
I dont measure it. I have the 200mg/ml stuff and just tip the bottle for a drink now and then.
I like your .25 eod Lake. That is a great starting dose.
06-24-2006, 12:03 PM
Yeah I am just gonna stick with the lower dose. I am VERY concerned about libido. But hey I got some Taldalafil just in case haha. Anyone ever used Tal.? Heck the active life is 36 hours! haha dayumn
06-24-2006, 01:34 PM
oh yes, the taldalafil. that stuff will allow you to have marathon sex even if you have the libido of an 90 year old man. i find it kicks in a few hours after dosing though, as opposed to the 20mins-30mins i have read.Originally Posted by LakeMountD
The chem also tastes horrible.
06-24-2006, 04:26 PM
for Lake I just want to clarify that my dosage has been building up since Monday from .5mgs to 1.25mgs. I had already had been two weeks into the Tren portion of my cycle and I was developing some strong gyno symptoms right from the start (never get gyno from just test or test plus other stuff then tren) so Iw as using Adex and it was not doing the trick. Now on Monday I kicked in the Letro at .5 and am up to 1.25mgs per day and today is Saturday and the gyno symptoms and slight lump are almost gone already. So I think the other guys posts are correct but if you start to have any symptoms do not hesitate to go up to a higher dosage but .25mg - .5mg per day is probably fine without any symptoms. Good luck.
cc: Mercedesdd, please read the good news above and thanks for all the help.
Originally Posted by mercedesdd
06-24-2006, 04:43 PM
06-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Sorry for the slight hijack, gyno symptoms are almost gone but libido is in the crapper. I just had some Tadalfil but I really still couldn't care less. Last weekend I couldn't stop thinking about sex now I don't care. I want to have the gyno totally gone then I am going to keep at the same dose of Letro for another week and then drop down to .5mg per day or EOD to try to get the libido back. Also I look so much leaner in one week it is unreal.
Originally Posted by mercedesdd
06-24-2006, 05:10 PM
Haha awesome. Well answer me this: I read that the half life is 36 hours, did you notice this as well? I don't mind taking this stuff as last test cycle I ran I think my blood pressure was a little too high or something despite the anciliaries because things were a little diff "down there" despite the increased libido. And please tell me it isn't constant wood with this stuff, is it your choice or is it automatic haha.Originally Posted by jomi822
07-02-2006, 02:00 PM
hey guys, quick question for you, i'm on week 8 of my test/deca cycle and i have been running nolva for a week now as soon as i started noticing the lump under my nip, but its not going down, I have cabergoline but from what i've been reading would letro be best? I am going to start taking 0.5mg every 4 days starting tonight but i'm just curious if i should have gotten letro as well?
07-02-2006, 07:15 PM
You should only need 250mcg 2x per week on the Cabergoline. Letro is better than nolva while on cycle in my opinion. Nolva is more prevention, try the letro for reversing it.
07-02-2006, 07:38 PM
So you think i should use the cabergoline 2x a week until the letro comes, then use the letro instead of the caber to reverse this lump that i've acquired?Originally Posted by LakeMountD
07-02-2006, 07:40 PM
You can continue to use cabergoline if you'd like. I have never taken Deca before but I am on Tren now and they are both nandrolones, so I think cabergoline is just fine. 250mcg twice per week is the dosage most use.
07-02-2006, 07:43 PM
07-03-2006, 12:03 AM
This is my first tren cycle and I have pubertal gyno. I am very in touch with my body though, especially the gyno area, and can realize when it is growing and when it isn't etc. So far so good at .25mg letro daily and 250mcg caberg. 2x weekly.
07-03-2006, 12:48 AM
Sorry for the 20 questions but Does it hinder your gains(size, strength etc.)?Originally Posted by LakeMountD
07-03-2006, 12:54 AM
Controlling estrogen definitely hinders your gains, that is why it is key to only use it when you need it or you are prone. Keep the dosages as low as possible to prevent or fix your gyno problem and no higher. You will not only inhibit how much you can gain but your joints will be more sore, libido lower, and more skin problems such as acne.
07-03-2006, 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by LakeMountD
thanks for the info lake, one more Q and A for you, what does your current cycle look like?
07-03-2006, 01:05 AM
07-03-2006, 01:22 AM
I can say this with ABSOLUTE confidence. I am on a HMAX/MTRN/MTST/MZOL cycle (Day 10 now) and have been taking an average of .75mg/day of Letro to ward off any gyno symptoms. I have come to the point now that the Letro does not slow me down at all, it doesn't affect my libido any more (MTRN definitely helps with that), and it doesn't make me feel like an old man dragging a 100lb brick from his arse. As a matter of a fact, I really don't even realize that I take it any more, and that is 100% honesty.Originally Posted by NevrEnuf
I have nearly reached my goal of gaining a rock solid 10lbs of LBM in 10 days, and I was praying to have it happen by the end of the 6-week cycle (very hard gainer here, tons of extracurricular activities, on a VERY VERY clean diet). I can confidently say that I gained over 6lbs already at day 9, and the Letro has NOT hindered my gains AT ALL. If it had, I would never have gained as quickly as I have, and NO, this is lean muscle (no water retention, especially with the Letro in place).
So, the moral to my story is that in my case, the Letro HAS NOT at all affected my incredible gains. I enjoy the level of safety it puts into play when I use it, and I will continue to use it throughout the cycle. Afterward, I'll go into PCT with Toremifene and my current line of ancillaries.
07-03-2006, 01:42 AM
07-03-2006, 01:54 AM
07-03-2006, 01:59 AM
Nolva can make gyno worse when using a 19 nor like deca or tren.. Nolva increases PgR in breast tissue and gives more of deca/trens metoblites to bind to .....Originally Posted by NevrEnuf
07-22-2006, 10:54 PM
I was told to dose letrozole like this for treating gyno,Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
week 1- 2.5 mgs
week 2- 2.0 mgs
week 3- 1.5 mgs
week 4- 1.0 mgs
week 5- 0.5 mgs
I have been on for about a week with 20 mgs of nolva and the lumps and puffiness has gone down slightly. I was told to dose it like this so I will not get estrogen rebound as bad, does anybody know if it's ok to dose it like this?
07-23-2006, 02:11 AM
I have posted this before .. It is my buddys protocol .. You dosing is wrong for this reversal protocol.. Here it is .. Hope it helps and good luck.. Please let me know if you have any questions......Originally Posted by mike3107
I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.
Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.
To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:
SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.
Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.
Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.
You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.
If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.
This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.
It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.
How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.
Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.
1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **
*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.
** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.
Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.
Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.
This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.
How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
07-23-2006, 03:11 AM
again, can proviron ( AI, Androgenic I guess) replace the letro, i mean would it do the same thing ??
07-23-2006, 01:34 PM
Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it. So should I just drop the Nolva and use it when im done with letro?Originally Posted by mercedesdd
07-23-2006, 02:51 PM
Just follow the protocol to a tee and hopefully you will have great success... Please keep us posted on how it goes........Originally Posted by mike3107
07-23-2006, 10:16 PM
personally, letro has done nothing for my gyno. i have been struggling with it for just over a week on a test/tren cycle. ever since i have been taking it i havent gained an extra 1/2 lb. nolva has always been excellent for curing gyno problems on cycle. i had the problem three times in my first cycle consisting of test/dbol. each time i used nolva and it got rid of it. since im on tren i havent taken the nolva because of the prolactin problems it can cause BUT i did take ONE 30mg dose one day and two days later in the morning when i woke up i checked my gyno and it had gotten smaller. the next day it was back to where it was. since nolvas half life is about 36-48 hrs, i attributed the reversal completely to the nolva. i think i may bite the bullet and take nolva at 30 mg eod for the next couple days. letro just isnt doing the trick and is only hindering my gains.
09-06-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by bpmartyr
does anyone really know how to dose out the liquid form, thats what i have as well?
09-06-2006, 01:39 PM
It depends on concentration. If its say 2.5 mg/ml then each cc is 2.5 grams. 1/2 cc is 1.25mg. 1/4 cc is .625mg. 1/8cc is .3125mgrams. If your goal is .25 then you want 1/10 of a cc or 1/10 of an ml.
Fixed it, the numbers themselves started to screw me up!!
Last edited by parttimer; 09-06-2006 at 03:16 PM.
09-06-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by parttimer
milligrams... not grams. you had it right initially then switched to grams for some reason. Probably a typo, but it may confuse others.
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