First Cycle, leaning toward orals. Advice?

[Lean1038]

Hey guys, I've been training seriously for the past 3 years, age 24, and I've mainly been supplementing Creatine Monohydrate, Ester, L-Arginine N02 products and sticking to the basics. I've gone from 148 when I was 20 to 186 today. As much as I bulk in my diet and train superset or mix it up, I only muster up a few pounds here and there.

My buddy came across a guy that can get nearly anything under the sun from domestic brands and suggested that I take the plunge.

I really want to steer clear of injectables and he suggested Anadrol.

I looked into it and it seems to be the most potent and aggressive oral out. I don't think that would be a good idea.

I'm looking to gain mass with water retention at first and cut with Winstrol after that while either running Nolvadex throughout or for PCT after.

What are your opinions/advice for these anabolics and what do you think would be the way to go?

Here is a sample of what I ate today now that I'm bulking naturally:

Breakfast 7:00 AM:

1 Cup of Buckwheat Pancakes
2 Whole eggs and 4 whites
3 Organic Chicken Sausage Links
Tbsp Omega Twin EFAs
Two Red Potoatos (Hash Browns)
1 liter of water
Banana
Multi Vitamin
Liver Care

Snack 9:00 AM:
Almond Butter Sandwich on Natual Ovens Max Health Bread


Lunch 11:30 AM
Mathews Burrito(48g Carbs, 8 of Fiber)
Low Sodium Albacore Tuna (30g Protein)
Soy Chips
1 Liter of Water

Preworkout 2:00 PM
Oatmeal with Banana
Myoplex Deluxe Shake with Flaxseed Oil
1 Liter of Water

Post Workout 4:00 PM:
ABB Mass Recovery with Dextrose Powder & Glutamine Peptides added
Clif Bar for Sugars and Carbs
2g of L-Taurine

Dinner 6:30 PM:
Whole Wheat Pasta
Low Sodium Pasta Sauce (50mg)
Ground Turkey
Bell Peppers
Slice of Natural Ovens Toast
1 Liter of Water

Bedtime:
1/2 Cup Low Sodium Lowfat Cottage Cheese
1 Liter of Water

I'm taking SNS E2 and CVM extreme right now.

So what do you guys think?

I'm basically looking for 10 -15lbs of shredded mass said and done. :bb:

Thanks in advance.

 

[CNorris]

Injectibles are safest. If you want that much mass, Superdrol should do it with good training and diet. A 10mg/10mg/20mg 3 week SD cycle is common.

Personally, I would just do it right and get some injectible test if you can find some. Then maybe add an oral on top of the test, you will blow up.

 

[same_old]

do more research. dont take the plunge with anything until you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Skye]

Go read this and as oldhand suggested do a lot more research before you take a walk on the dark side.
ChemicalFitness

That should answer most of your questions. I would stay away from the disigners steroids esp for a first cycle as they are harsh. If you just can't inject (wuss J/K) for whatever reason then a transdermal is a better option then the orals. If you must go with orals then I would go with dbol like in the link above. Has a better safty record. JM2C

 

[CHAPS]

Suck it up and use injectables they are much safer. And ya your buddy is a total idiot for suggesting Anadrol, right their that tells you not to listen to his advice on anything gear related. If you MUST use orals only then try something like 40-50mg Anavar for 8 weeks or Turinabol at 60mg for 6 weeks.

 

[CHAPS]

Also it all comes down to calories for gaining or cutting, so start by taking your bodyweight and multiply it by 16 and see if your gaining if not up your calories but a few hundred every week till you start to gain. Try using a 40/40/20 split that's always good. I still think you could gain more naturally, use a stack of Anabolic Extreme's Retain+Gasperi Novadex XT and you should be able to put on atleast 5lbs of mass or so in 8 weeks.

 

[Achilles13]

Don't fall into the rumors... "Take winny and you will be ripped." It's all BS. If you really want to be ripped, I suggest you post your diet in the nutrition section and get it tweaked buy the guys here.

 

[anabolicrhino]

First, you may want to evaluate why you feel the need to gain 15 lbs of shredded mass. Then I think you would be remiss not to feel the all around pleasure of having your blood serum testosterone levels elevated exponentially. Once you "feel the test" you can use that experience as a reference point for future experiments. If you can't do the needle or make a transdermal then D-bol is king. You may want to research an AI or thyroid drug as an ancillary with d-bol. The d-bol or even test won't shred you but, it is usually a two part process. The steroids that "shred" are usually more heptoxic than the "wet" androgens. That would be tough for a first experience. Test is the "natural" choice.

 

[SrT4u2Nv]

Pheraplex=FTW

 

[Lean1038]

I appreciate all the speedy advice guys.

So it looks like some are saying don't bother unless I'm willing to use injectables while others are recommending Dianabol for a starter.

Would stacking Dianabol and winstrol be a good idea? How would you overlap them?

I read that Dianabol should only be used for up to 6 weeks.

SHould the Nolvadex be used throughout the cycle or simply post?

Naturally my diet with advance when starting.

Thanks for the help.

 

[jonny21]

Cheapest, safest and best results from non-injectable= Testosterone Transdermal, period.

 

[Lean1038]

Cheapest, safest and best results from non-injectable= Testosterone Transdermal, period.

Is that hard to come by? And how would I cycle that as far as time/mg? Would you use Nolvadex while on it or just post?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[B5150]

Is that hard to come by? And how would I cycle that as far as time/mg? Would you use Nolvadex while on it or just post?

Thanks for your advice.

The aquisition of steroids is illegal. If you run a search on test base you will find a lot of information.

 

[Lean1038]

The aquisition of steroids is illegal. If you run a search on test base you will find a lot of information.

Right. Thank you.

What is the technical description of a transdermal?

Sorry for being a newb.

 

[3v1l]

Lean1038 whilst I understand the desire you have for the 15lb of shredded mass I would ask what supps you have tried? You say "all the basics" but I would challenge you to look at the current top market products. I have not used ph's/steroids but I feel that my 3 years in the workout world not have prepared me or maxed out my natural gains yet. However if you're stuck on using then I think you have definetely come to the right place for info. Please listen to what they say and follow their guidance.

/rant over

 

[CHAPS]

I agree with everyone's comments so far, yeah their are steroids that are well suited for dieting like primobolan, anavar, winstrol, masteron and tren but it's not like you just take them and bam your shredded, oh no it doesn't work like that, it's your diet bro, DIET DIET DIET. The problem i have with Dianabol only cycles is that alot of the mass is easily lost post-cycle. If you want to put on 5-10lbs of rock hard mass while probably dropping a couple lbs of fat and getting stronger than you should look into Anavar. It's so mild that fitness competitors use the stuff, it's great for strength and maintaining mass while dieting and for a first cycle with a good diet you should easily be able to put on 10lbs of really hard quality mass which will be easily maintained post-cycle. If you want something more potent than i suggest Turinabol it's literally Dianabol that doesn't convert to estrogen and it's more anabolic and less androgenic. Because of it being more anabolic and less androgenic you'll be able to keep alot/ probably all of your mass post-cycle. But SERIOUSLY consider injectables, ask around it's not bad at all, ya the first time you give yourself an injection can be nerve racking for some but then you'll find you actually look forward to the shots. And if you shoot your glutes or quads it's literally painless, the pins are so shart that it doesn't even feel like a pinch. If you want some serious mass, i mean 15lbs+ of mass then you need to go with a testosterone only cycle like:


Weeks 1-12 500mg Testosterone Enthanate
Weeks 1-12 50mg Proviron

Then you'd use Retain+Novedex XT+Nolvadex for a post cycle therapy that will net you even more gains. Also you said you want 15lbs of shredded mass, well i'm sorry to tell you this but if your bulking correctly you should be putting on SOME fat. So use the above cycle then come back and we can discuss a cutting cycle to cut you up and harden up your new mass. And i'd avoid Winstrol actually, it's hell on your joints and actually weakens them while making you stronger which isn't a good situation. Anavar is a much better choice because it actually strengthens your joints.

 

[3v1l]

Chaps - I think thats good advice but do you really think he's ready?

 

[same_old]

Chaps - I think thats good advice but do you really think he's ready?

no. not even close. i've studied for thousands of hours, done several cycles, am 250lbs+ lean and i dont even think I'm ready. there is so much to know...when i talk with someone who doesnt know the basics, i get overwhelmed...there is SOO much to know about the gear game, and alot at risk for those who dont do their homework.

and CHAPS is right - it is ALL about diet, at least for getting "cuts"...winny will make you harder, but it wont erase the fat overtop.

 

[idunk42]

no. not even close. i've studied for thousands of hours, done several cycles, am 250lbs+ lean and i dont even think I'm ready. there is so much to know...when i talk with someone who doesnt know the basics, i get overwhelmed...there is SOO much to know about the gear game, and alot at risk for those who dont do their homework.

and CHAPS is right - it is ALL about diet, at least for getting "cuts"...winny will make you harder, but it wont erase the fat overtop.

So your telling me winny wont make my fat hard???

Oh well, back to the drawing board. :blink:

 

[Lean1038]

I appreciate your help. Chaps thanks man.

My diet is on point and I have tried OTC prohormones in the past.

Legal Gear's Pheraplex gave me 16 lbs in 3 weeks. I came off with Gaspari's Novadex XT and ZMA while staying on Liver Care the whole time.

I've tried Superdrol as well, but didn't gain as much (8 lbs)and felt very lethargic.

It was awesome. Believe me, I've been lifting and dieting hard for the past 3 years, but training for a total of 7.

I'm just looking for an edge again.

Would this Anavar be a good idea solo or stacking with something else?

When would Nolvadex be taken with this?

I'm lean as it is due to dieting and eating clean while training so any builder will get me there I believe. I've just never tried anything other than OTC supps.

Do you guys agree with the Anavar idea?

Thanks a lot.

 

[nattyHST]

i think turanabol is your best bet, but you should research a lot more prior to THINKING about actually taking the plunge. at your weight you shouldnt have touched the designer steroids either, unless you are looking to seriously impact your end potential.

 

[jomi822]

I appreciate your help. Chaps thanks man.

My diet is on point and I have tried OTC prohormones in the past.

Legal Gear's Pheraplex gave me 16 lbs in 3 weeks. I came off with Gaspari's Novadex XT and ZMA while staying on Liver Care the whole time.

I've tried Superdrol as well, but didn't gain as much (8 lbs)and felt very lethargic.

It was awesome. Believe me, I've been lifting and dieting hard for the past 3 years, but training for a total of 7.

I'm just looking for an edge again.

Would this Anavar be a good idea solo or stacking with something else?

When would Nolvadex be taken with this?

I'm lean as it is due to dieting and eating clean while training so any builder will get me there I believe. I've just never tried anything other than OTC supps.

Do you guys agree with the Anavar idea?

Thanks a lot.

Phera-plex and superdrol are steroids. they do not convert to anything once they have been absorbed by your body, they immediateley act upon the androgen receptors once they enter the body. in other words, i am trying to tell you that you have already used steroids, and not weak ones either. superdrol is a very powerful compound, even more so than anavar.

Your goals seem reasonable to me, and i am assuming you are sub 200lb because you want to keep all of the mass you gain as lean and pretty as possible, and i understand it is much harder to gain that perfect lean mass than pure meat. here is my recommendation.

you have eperience with 17AA oral steroids, the next step is to run longer cycles using injectable steroids. the reason people are telling you to do this is because injectable steroids are much safer and can be run for longer periods of time.

the main things you need to keep in mind are-

support supplements to take while on steroids (injectable or oral)

PCT (should always use a SERM, no ifs ands or buts unless its a VERY short cylce)

DIET- food is the most anabolic substance on the face of the planet, your diet is the most important part of your regimine

Know the substances you are using, research research research

If you would like to take the next step, the classic beginners cycle is

weeks 1-12 500 mgs of testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate
weeks 1-4 dianabol

in your case, you want to cut, so using turinabol would probably suit your 4 weeks cycle jumpstart. you may also end your cycle with 4 weeks of winstrol to harden everything up.

nolva at 20mgs throughout to prevent gyno, arimidex at .25mg every day to prevent bloat and help prevent gyno, if needed.

 

[CHAPS]

Do i think he needs em? NOPE He needs to concentrate on eating and lifting heavier and heavier weights, do deadlift,squats, bench press, clean and press, snatchs, rows, pull ups, and write down your weights, then each week progress with reps or weight, this is a principle of DC training, i've never done DC training but i REALLY agree with this concept. That way your not just going through the motions in the gym, it will ensure your ALWAYS pushing yourself and always progressing even if it's 2.5lbs it's still progress. And if your getting stronger your sure as hell getting bigger. I think you'd do fine with what i mentioned before, novadex xt+ Retain, run it for 8-10 weeks add in some Xtend and cissus for joints, animal pak and a good quality whey and protein blend. Then concentrate on eating lots and lots of good muscle building food such as steak, turkey, ground beef, chicken, brown rice, brown rice pasta, sweet potatoes, avacodo's, natural peanut butter etc. I'm telling you yes you've made good progress in 3 years but you have years more left of making good gains. I trained naturally for 8 years i'd constantly try out new supplements that i read good reviews on and had science to back them up as well as constantly experimenting with my diet and training. Try this:


For 1 weeks, increase the volume in all your workouts by 50%, and really up your cardio quite a bit, then cut your calories to 500 below maintainence. You'll probably just lose some fat and feel really run down. Now the week after hop on the Retain and Novadex XT like i mentioned and also add in some Guggulsterones at the max dose (I like syntrax's), make sure your eating lots of protein and taking in lots of quality calories, reduce the volume of your workouts and really cut back cardio. Make sure your getting 8 hours of sleep a night no exceptions. By purposely over training for that week you have just primed your body for growth, so when week 2 comes around your body will overcompensate and focus all it's energy into making new muscle instead of fat. This will continue for sometime. I've done this many many times and it's perfect to do whether your natural or enhanced. First time i did this i gained 10lbs in a week! And that's naturally without any special supplements, i didn't even have anything to lower cortisol or boost my thyroid up to normal. Try out new training styles, just keep experimenting, trust me in 3 years of training you STILL don't know your body. You don't know what training or diet is best, you may think you do but you don't. If your gains have stalled i suggest you get a nutritionist and try out some of the new supplements available on the market and no i don't mean prohormones/pro-steroids.

Remember you grow when you sleep so making sure you get a good night's sleep is very important look into:

Ibe's Hexatropin
USP labs Rem
ALRI Lean Dreams
Optimum Nutrition ZMA

I personally use ZMA year round as it helps me sleep and as athletes we need more zinc and magnesium than the average person. Also multi-vitamins are very important, don't go for anything that is only 1 pill because their is no way in thell they could fit everything your body needs in 1 pill unless it's taken up the arse, lol. I highly suggest you try out Animal Pak by Universal nutrition, i've yet to find a more potent multi.

Check out ecdysterone products like Scivations Anagen, i've used ecdysterone before with a high protein high calorie diet and gained 5lbs of mass in a month! Also really try out different brands of protein, go for a pure whey isolate with low fat/carbs and also a protein blend with Micellar casein in it, which you'll drink before bed. Udo's 3.6.9 oil is a favourite of mine for getting my efa's look into that as well, 1 tblsp per 25lbs of bodyweight is recommended, fats are very underrated and very important.

Like i mentioned in another post though food is what counts, you think you can get around it by eating tons of bars or meal replacements but you can't, the determining factor of whether or not someone gets very muscular is how much food they can eat. The biggest eaters are always the biggest guys. Probiotics, digestive enzymes and fiber supplements are perfect for helping your body make use of the extra food, with out you feeling like a bloated mess.

 

[CHAPS]

Check out ALRI and USP Labs you can trust ANYTHING that either company puts out. Hope this has been helpful but if your already set on going the gear route then follow the cycle i layed out for you earlier. I just don't think you need it...yet:twisted:

 

[same_old]

Phera-plex and superdrol are steroids. they do not convert to anything once they have been absorbed by your body, they immediateley act upon the androgen receptors once they enter the body. in other words, i am trying to tell you that you have already used steroids, and not weak ones either. superdrol is a very powerful compound, even more so than anavar.
.....
in your case, you want to cut, so using turinabol would probably suit your 4 weeks cycle jumpstart. you may also end your cycle with 4 weeks of winstrol to harden everything up.

nolva at 20mgs throughout to prevent gyno, arimidex at .25mg every day to prevent bloat and help prevent gyno, if needed.

:goodpost:

except the nolva PLUS dex recommendation - there is no need. dex is plenty strong, and long-term nolva just isnt good for you at all. i personally recommend easier AI's like formestane or 6OXO or aromasin - no sexual sides and alot less joint ache. you want to keep SOME estrogen in there, unless you KNOW you are gyno prone and have to take it all to avoid the itchy nips.

 

[Lean1038]

Wow. Props to Jomi822 and Chaps. You guys are killer.

I think I'm going to try that training change that CHAPS posted and jump on an SNS stack again.

I'm going to bust my ass even harder and see where I'm at. I appreciate all your help and think I'm going to hold off on the AASs for a while.

Thanks again guys.

 

[CHAPS]

Well another reason you should hold off is that the longer you train naturally the more androgen receptors you get, more androgen receptors means when you do decide to use steroids they will have more sites to latch onto so you'll get a better overall results. This is why guys that train naturally for 8-10 years can go on 500mg of test E maybe 750mg and gain 20lbs+ of mass. Oh and creatine also increases these receptors :twisted:.

 

[jomi822]

Oh and creatine also increases these receptors :twisted:.

creatine also increases satellite cell activity, little known fact (there is a study on here somewhere). absolutely helps you recover faster

 

[CHAPS]

Rep we are constantly learning new benefits to creatine supplementation, and to think at one point people thought it was bad for you.