4AD to test base

Page 1 of 4 123 ... Last
  1. 4AD to test base


    JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN CHEMICAL SOCIETY
    #75 (1953)
    page 5930
    sondheimer et al.

    1g 4AD + 100mL chloroform + 10g MnO2 = test base 100% after 2 hours shaking at room temp

    yield is 93% when crystalized with methanol and filtered on paper

    MATERIALS: (check www.sciencelab.com i don't know if they are the cheapest, but they have everything)
    beakers
    hotplate with built in stirrer
    stirring bars
    distilled water
    methanol
    chloroform (can be cheaper grade)
    thermometer (-10 to 150 degrees celcius, its like $4)
    4AD powder
    activated MnO2 (if this cannot be found, make your own from potassium permanganate and manganese sulfate. also need ether if you do this step)
    filter paper
    funnel (holds filter paper)
    earlmeyer flask with vacuum tube out side for vacuum filtering
    scale

    now that is alot of MnO2 and it can be done with less. too simple you say, well your right its not that easy. the MnO2 available commercially is not always active. but the authors gave a method of preparing MnO2 that is easy and the product is very active and can be put in a stoppered jar with no loss of activity (those guys would make great homebrewers)

    HOW TO MAKE MnO2:

    take concentrated aqueous potassium permanganate and add to a stirred aqueous manganese sulfate solution kept at 90 degrees celcius (need a hot plate that has stirrer built in) until a slight excess was present (pink coloration of the supernatant liquid). stir at 90 degrees celcius for 15 minutes. filter, wash well with hot water, then methanol and ether. dry at 120 to 130 degrees celcius to a constant weight. it can be kept for several months in a well stoppered bottle with no loss of activity.

    how to get concentrated aqueous potassium permanganate: take distilled water and and add potassium permanganate until not more goes into solution (this is where a magnetic stirrer comes in handy). if you added too much, just add more water until all is in solution. duh!

    how to get aqueous manganese sulfate: same idea as above.

    METHOD:

    i am looking for a source of activated manganes dioxide so that the above does not need to be performed. once we get the manganes dioxide, all we have to do is mix the 4AD, MnO2 and chloroform in the ratios above, basically add the 4AD to chloroform on the magnetic stirrer and then add the MnO2 and leave it for 3 hours at room temp. add methanol to the solution and the test will crystalize and fall out of solution. filter and wash well with methanol. collect the filtrate and filter again on new filter paper and dry all the filter papers. if the filtrate still has crystals, filter with another paper. i would dry the first filter paper out well for a few days and weigh it. if its more than 80% yield, i wouldn't waste time trying to get the rest. if not, then take the filtrate and refilter to get rest of crystals. you kind of play it by ear. that's pretty much it.....oh yeah, don't forget to discard the powder properly as this is an experiment

    it is possible that much less MnO2 can be used. this will mean that the reaction will have to sit longer maybe a day or two, i don't really know. this will have to be found out. i want to try this in the lab where i can measure the ultraviolet spectrum to determine how long the complete reaction takes with different amounts of MnO2 and chloroform so as to minimize cost.

    why did i not do it step by step? well if you can't figure it out, then you probably shouldn't be doing it.

    THIS SHOULD WORK JUST THE SAME FOR 19nor4diol to NANDROLONE

    ba-doop, ba-doop, that's all folks

    cheers, pete


  2. hmm, tempting me to try this instead of a syno conversion Pete. I'll wait though for other guinea pigs

  3. my head hurts lol..still gonna try it though
    •   
       


  4. Definitely very interested. Would be curious to see someone who could try it and test the end result product…

  5. Is there a way to find out if the mno2 at sciencelabs is active.. ie that would save alot of work lol

  6. Originally posted by jweave23
    hmm, tempting me to try this instead of a syno conversion Pete. I'll wait though for other guinea pigs
    Stick to the syno pork. I don't think your chemistry level is above a bunsen burner. Looks like something for you lab geeks, speaking of which, why hasn't the biggest geek chimed in here yet?

  7. Originally posted by scotty2


    Stick to the syno pork. I don't think your chemistry level is above a bunsen burner. Looks like something for you lab geeks, speaking of which, why hasn't the biggest geek chimed in here yet?
    lol, that's what I was thinking too

    Funny, I got a D my first time in Chem 101, but the bunsen burners are just too fun to play with

  8. Originally posted by scotty2
    Stick to the syno pork. I don't think your chemistry level is above a bunsen burner. Looks like something for you lab geeks, speaking of which, why hasn't the biggest geek chimed in here yet?
    Doesn’t look too terribly technical. BTW, what’s a bunsen burner?

    Although, if it works, might be an opportunity for someone to make and sell a kit…… for research purposes of course.

    Originally posted by jweave23
    Funny, I got a D my first time in Chem 101, but the bunsen burners are just too fun to play with
    Richard Pryor, is that you. Don't burn yourself

  9. i have already contacted sciencelabs to see if they have active MnO2 or if they can get it at a reasonable cost. if you can get active MnO2, then it is jokes. all you do is mix the 4AD into the chloroform and add the MnO2 and stir it for a few hours. then add methanol to crystalize the test and filter it out. that's much simpler than the syno conversion. as for kits, what the **** for? you have to mix three things at room temp for about three hours and then add methanol, you get crystals, filter. it really can't get simpler than that. what i'm going to do that is more complicated is try to figure out how little MnO2 we can use and still get a complete reaction. this will make it cheaper, but we will probably have to let it sit overnight or something. the cool part is that the reaction is 100% specific and proceeds to completion. the 93% result obtained in the journal article is what was collected at the end as pure test base. even if we are sloppy, we should get better than 80%, if you're careful, there is no reason that you can't match the experimental results. like pat arnold said it is very easy. i'm quite sure that this is what he was talking about.

    i'm going to be out for a week or two so y'all know why you won't be hearing from me for that time

    cheers, pete

  10. This looks very promising, has anyone checked on where to get active MnO2? This does look alot better than a syno kit. It should be cheaper, and if you don't get a high yield, you will have test base + 4-ad, no big deal, and no estrodiol.
  11. Thumbs up


    Sounds great, I need to keep up on this one. Anyone know how to subscribe to a thread without posting something?

  12. um bart u just posted...hehe

  13. Hmm, now it is really tempting Pete! If I can find out where to get active MnO2 quickly, I may be all over it! 4-ad at around $1/gram is damn cheap

  14. Great thread! My chemistry knowledge is pretty much nil. sciencelabs does have manganese dioxide reagent. Is this the active version?

  15. The cheapest price I was able to find on a hot plate/stirrer was around $350. I was actually considering purchasing one for my "other experiments" before reading this thread. But that's pretty pricy. Anyone have any other suggestions that don't involve hiring an out of work baker with a propencity for stirring for days at a time.

  16. if we can get MnO2, then a $70 stirrer would do the trick, as we do not need heat. see if you can buy an old one from a high school. i have not heard back from science labs. will post when i do.

  17. Would anyone who has a stirrer or could pop for one be interested in maybe splitting the cost of a first "experimental" batch? Seems like buying the supplies in bulk looks alot cheaper, and you might have to get active MnO2 in bulk. For example, at sciencelab, chloroform: $19 for 100 ml, $25 for 500 ml.

  18. would this be safe to use transdermally or injected?

    with the chemical by products that it has the potential to produce, and the substances using to create it, i'm just wondering

    my chemistry knowledge is definintely lacking, but i'm just wondering if some residiual chemicals left over from the process could stay in the batch and cause problems later when you try and use it in the real world
    Twitter: @pogue25

  19. the crystals that are created shoudl be pure test .. so no need to worry about by products thats why u "wash" it with methanol..

  20. Maybe I'm not doing my math right, but at 19.53 for the 100 ml required to produce less than 1 gram of test base, and adding the cost of the Mn02, it seems that we would easily be in the $20 per gram range which is substantially higher than what it would cost to by the test base itself.

    Am I wrong on this?

  21. Originally posted by RVEXLER
    Maybe I'm not doing my math right, but at 19.53 for the 100 ml required to produce less than 1 gram of test base, and adding the cost of the Mn02, it seems that we would easily be in the $20 per gram range which is substantially higher than what it would cost to by the test base itself.

    Am I wrong on this?

    Based on my math (using Sciencelab’s pricing)

    Price/Gram of manganese dioxide (MnO2) - $.016/gram
    Price/mL of Chloroform - $.0517/mL

    At $1/gram for 4 AD, and using the equation

    1g 4AD + 100mL chloroform + 10g MnO2

    The price should be:

    1g-4AD x (1$/gram) + 100mL-Chlorofrom x ($.0517/mL) + 10g-MnO2 x (.016) = $6.33 for a 93% yield

    Thus, the price per gram is approx $6.8/gram

    The synovex conversion cost me approx $7/gram for materials.

    Of course, this assume Sicenclab’s manganese dioxide is active.

  22. 500ml for $25 would be $5 per gram plus the 4ad. But do you need 100ml for each gram?

  23. I've seen test base for under $1 a gram though too.

  24. ok well how many of u have access to test base powder? didnt think so

  25. Originally posted by wojo
    ok well how many of u have access to test base powder? didnt think so
    I have access, just was saying bro



  26. well ur one of the few not a lot of guys on here know where to find it and dont wanna play james bond getting it..that was my point..plus most powders come from china and theres no way in hell im accepting something from china right now

  27. Cause of SARS? It'll be everywhere soon but what are the chances of getting it? 1000 people out of how many million people living there, i'll take my chances.

  28. the stuff survives on dry surfaces,its airborne..this is the one everyone has always feared..glad ur not worried

  29. Glad im not worried?
    Think about it, you gonna run your life in fear of this ****? I live my life not worrying about **** all, why bother? It's like people scared to fly because of terrorist ****, how many flights go in and out everyday compared to how many successful terrorist attempts.

  30. firmly agree with u on that one..ur numbers up u can do nothing about it..sars is non treatable..why take unnecessary chances..not affraid to live my life just not ordering from china for any gear parts for a long long time

  31. Thing is, where do you think all these liquid research companies and chemo gets his stuff from?

  32. good point but who said i was using them?

  33. No one said you were, just making a point was all. Everyone is different, makes me laugh my ass of when i see some old lady wearing a mask over her face though, even before sars.

  34. me too as i never ever get sick,heard a lady in the liquor store the other day tell everyone in there that they would be going to hell because they had not accepted god as the lord and saviour because they were drinking..what she was doing in a liquor then i have no idea i myself was gambling buying lotto tickets..lmao.crazy crazy world..but it keeps it interesting

  35. Hehe, what a dumb bitch. Ignorant ass peeps like that piss me off. My mom for eg. telling me i better not juice or else... While she's holding a ****ing cigarette in her hand, my god.

  36. I have one source with test base, and it was $12 a gram!!!! So needless to say, if I can get for around $5-8 for a trans, than I'm down.

  37. hmmm jweave check ur emails

  38. Originally posted by Kitchen Chemist


    I have access, just was saying bro



    Shhhhhhh........
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  39. um jweace u do realize cyber-rights is a .NET not a .com right? lol check ur email in ur sig bro

  40. Hehe, bobo, i aint telling Did you blow your load when you saw the prices?
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. How to add an ester to test base?
    By tank8140 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-22-2007, 12:52 PM
  2. Test base to test cyp?
    By syko in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-11-2006, 09:16 PM
  3. Problem with syno conversion to test base?
    By mildain in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-01-2006, 02:22 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-05-2003, 09:20 PM
  5. 4AD to TEST at HOME
    By crazypete in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-18-2003, 07:17 AM
Log in
Log in